Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
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Originally Posted by
Lyle
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Originally Posted by
Taeth
I can't see how any version of Holyfield would be really effective against Wlad. He always had a hard time with guys who could stay away.
I like youre thinking Taeth but I can't agree with you on Holyfield. He is the easiest fighter to underestimate, not the strongest, not the biggest, not the hardest or fastest puncher but very very consistent in his work and very effective.
There are 2 ways (that have been demonstrated in history) to beat Wladimir #1 Corrie Sanders - land hard punches and follow up #2 Purrity & Brewster - take everything Wlad hits you with and outlast his stamina.
I think Evander Holyfield's constant pressure, solid defense, granite chin and combination punching would have been too much for Wlad to handle. I mean Holyfield took everything Bowe had, Lennox Lewis had, Mike Tyson had, and he just kept coming forward. He's only been stopped 2 times once by Bowe when he had hepititus or something and once by James Toney when Evander tore up his shoulder.
When we talk about Ali many folks think it's a disgrace to say Wlad could beat him but history proves that Ali had trouble with guys who could box with him...I'm not saying Wlad would dominate Ali, I'm not trying to hate on Ali, I'm just saying he would need a lot more than the "rope-a-dope" to beat Wlad. Although Ali had very quick hands, good defense, and a great chin which probably would have won him fights over lots of people (including Wladimir, I think the big key for Ali is fast hands + combination punching as not many heavyweights ever have both) he wasn't invincible.
Prime Ali v prime Wlad? only 1 winner and it aint Wlad. Prime Wlad v Ali post 1975? Its a 5/10er
Prime Holmes v Prime Wlad? Holmes by late KO
Prime Foreman v Prime Wlad? Foreman by early KO
Prime Tubbs,Thomas,Smith and the rest of the alphabet title holders of the 80s,90s and 2000s v Prime Wlad? Wlad to win 90% of them.
The reason why i say 90% is to allow for the odd one to slip through the net and score a knockout.
Im not being disrespectful to Wlad as hes a fine champion in his own right, its just that i dont find him as good as what some may do.
As for Holmes, and im not a Holmes nuthugger-in fact the opposite, i think your underestimating Holmes. Actually,im wrong, i dont think your underestimating Holmes, just his punch power and fantastic right hand (not just power,but precision and speed) and i think you just believe Wlad would beat him. Which is fair enough cos i see where your coming from. Again this is just my take on things. Feel free to rip me apart
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
http://www.saddoboxing.com/boxingfor...-beaten-4.html
I just read an 3 1/2 year old thread that some people were asking who Wlad would beat in ALi's era. And some people say that Wlad fighting Ali would be like the WLad-Chris Byrd fight. ;D Comparing Ali to Chris Byrd? Might as well compare George Foreman to Razor Ruddock. These Wlad fans I tell you.:cool:
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
I feel Wlad would have beaten a slew of heavyweight's. Right now he is the best and most hated fighter. I don't know why this is,he is a class act in and out of the ring.HE stops just about everyone he has faced in recent years. People are still saying he can be knocked out or beaten by whomever. But the fact of the matter is RIGHT NOW he has not be in any type of trouble or even knocked down in damn near five years. He has consistantly gotten better under the tutalage of E-man and he has taught him really to keep everything in his range and not mix it up.Ultimately leading to a TKO or stoppage.
My list of heavyweight's who would give Wlad problems
Lennox
Foreman
Tyson ( before Bruno I)
maybe Larry Holmes early on but would wilt under the weight, power,and accuracy.
A prime Cassius Clay,maybe but I think would wilt also under the weight and power, (not the Ali who sat on the ropes he would be a sitting duck and yes be stopped).
Styles make fight's and these are the guy's I think would give Wlad problems. All of the old time fighter's like Dempsey, Marciano, Louis, are just to damn small.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
I feel Wlad would have beaten a slew of heavyweight's. Right now he is the best and most hated fighter. I don't know why this is,he is a class act in and out of the ring.HE stops just about everyone he has faced in recent years. People are still saying he can be knocked out or beaten by whomever. But the fact of the matter is RIGHT NOW he has not be in any type of trouble or even knocked down in damn near five years. He has consistantly gotten better under the tutalage of E-man and he has taught him really to keep everything in his range and not mix it up.Ultimately leading to a TKO or stoppage.
My list of heavyweight's who would give Wlad problems
Lennox
Foreman
Tyson ( before Bruno I)
maybe Larry Holmes early on but would wilt under the weight, power,and accuracy.
A prime Cassius Clay,maybe but I think would wilt also under the weight and power, (not the Ali who sat on the ropes he would be a sitting duck and yes be stopped).
Styles make fight's and these are the guy's I think would give Wlad problems. All of the old time fighter's like Dempsey, Marciano, Louis, are just to damn small.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
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Originally Posted by
Lyle
OK I'm going to be honest about a few things here
#1 If Corrie Sanders and Lamon Brewster got to fight more of the top tier fighters they would have been much more impressive fighters. They are still solid fighters, granted for a short period of time but Sanders was a threat to anyone who set foot in the ring with him, and nobody can argue that.
#2 If you look at the skill set of Wladimir Klitschko you will see he's built to beat a fighter "like" Tyson...could he keep his composure under Tyson's attack maybe not, but Wlad has everything you need to beat Tyson.
I think Wlad could have handled anyone considered 2nd tier in the era's of Ali, Holmes, Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield.....and I think personally he would have beaten Riddick Bowe (5 out of 10 times as previously stated) because as great as the guy fought, he never once faced a power puncher, and he didn't use his physical attributes to his advantage.
You guys also need to acknowledge that Wladimir Klitschko has fought more southpaws than any other heavyweight champion has had to. That's a very difficult thing to ask, Ali to my knowledge only fought 1, I'm not sure if Lewis fought any or even Tyson for that matter.
And to answer your question ICB Wladimir's never fought anyone on Spink's level because he's never even thought of fighting a light heavyweight much less considering such a fight to be an accomplishment. But to be totally honest I don't see Chris Byrd as any different than Spinks, he was just a full time heavyweight instead of being a light heavyweight first.
I'll agree he has the tools to beat Tyson, but I think i'd go with prime Tyson to beat current Wlad due to his brilliant head movement, that would get him past the jab IMO and Tysons power once he did get in. Then again Douglas didn't have a great chin (look at what Evander did to it) and he got by Tyson and used his jab well.
All in all though i'd go with prime Tyson!
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
generalbulldog, I have been known to question the greatness of Ali, but I always give him respect. As for what I said about Chris Byrd....
Ali
Height: 6'3
Weight: 212
Reach: 80"
Wlad
Height: 6'7
Weight:243
Reach: 81"
4 inches, 30 pounds, 1" in reach...Ali never came across a fighter like that and any power Ali had came from his speed and accumulation of damage/fatigue on his opponent. Chris Byrd was a big stretch, but who has Wlad fought that was a skilled boxer, had little KO power, fast hands, and a very solid chin? Chris Byrd. Am I saying Ali would get his ass kicked like Chris Byrd ? no (I may have been 4 years ago, but not right now), I'm saying Ali would be undersized and out gunned...not that he wasn't used to that but he may have been used to that bigger person in the ring lacking in technical boxing skill and this would not be the case if they fought. However improbable it is to consider Wlad winning this fight it's not impossible.
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Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
I'll agree he has the tools to beat Tyson, but I think i'd go with prime Tyson to beat current Wlad due to his brilliant head movement, that would get him past the jab IMO and Tysons power once he did get in. Then again Douglas didn't have a great chin (look at what Evander did to it) and he got by Tyson and used his jab well.
All in all though i'd go with prime Tyson!
But you do see it's not crazy to think Wlad has a shot vs Tyson and that's all I'm saying.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
Lyle you obviously don't know anything about Tyson because he's the worst possible match-up for Wlad. He'd beat up Wlad so badly it would be nasty to watch. Tyson had more technical skill in his left pinky than Wlad has in his entire arsenal.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
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Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
Lyle you obviously don't know anything about Tyson because he's the worst possible match-up for Wlad. He'd beat up Wlad so badly it would be nasty to watch. Tyson had more technical skill in his left pinky than Wlad has in his entire arsenal.
I know Mike Tyson got rocked by Bruno, Bonecrusher Smith, Buster Douglas, and Holyfield...all of which we can assume that don't hit as hard as Wladimir.
I know Tyson had trouble with Tony Tucker, Buster Douglas, and Lennox Lewis all of whom were tall lanky boxer/punchers
I mean I get where you are coming from it could be like Tyson-Golota but it could just as easily be like Tyson-Douglas.
Yes Mike had great head movement he cut off the run really well but in hindsight he didn't work all that great on the inside, he allowed for fighters to tie him up, he could get stymied by the jab alone, and the longer you lasted with him the less likely Tyson was to win.
I know no one Wlad has fought has had Tyson-esque head movement but a lot of guys have just stopped looking for a win and started looking for a way out after a few rounds of eating that jab.
It's not a sure thing either way is all I am saying I'd say 60-40 out of 100 fights Tyson-Wlad. That's not unreasonable is it? I mean it may be unreasonable to the people who think Tyson could beat anyone ever in the history of but hey I'm just trying to be reasonable here
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
Lyle you obviously don't know anything about Tyson because he's the worst possible match-up for Wlad. He'd beat up Wlad so badly it would be nasty to watch. Tyson had more technical skill in his left pinky than Wlad has in his entire arsenal.
I know Mike Tyson got rocked by Bruno, Bonecrusher Smith, Buster Douglas, and Holyfield...all of which we can assume that don't hit as hard as Wladimir.
I know Tyson had trouble with Tony Tucker, Buster Douglas, and Lennox Lewis all of whom were tall lanky boxer/punchers
I mean I get where you are coming from it could be like Tyson-Golota but it could just as easily be like Tyson-Douglas.
Yes Mike had great head movement he cut off the run really well but in hindsight he didn't work all that great on the inside, he allowed for fighters to tie him up, he could get stymied by the jab alone, and the longer you lasted with him the less likely Tyson was to win.
I know no one Wlad has fought has had Tyson-esque head movement but a lot of guys have just stopped looking for a win and started looking for a way out after a few rounds of eating that jab.
It's not a sure thing either way is all I am saying I'd say 60-40 out of 100 fights Tyson-Wlad. That's not unreasonable is it? I mean it may be unreasonable to the people who think Tyson could beat anyone ever in the history of but hey I'm just trying to be reasonable here
Vlad is that you? ;D
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
generalbulldog, I have been known to question the greatness of Ali, but I always give him respect. As for what I said about Chris Byrd....
Ali
Height: 6'3
Weight: 212
Reach: 80"
Wlad
Height: 6'7
Weight:243
Reach: 81"
4 inches, 30 pounds, 1" in reach...Ali never came across a fighter like that and any power Ali had came from his speed and accumulation of damage/fatigue on his opponent. Chris Byrd was a big stretch, but who has Wlad fought that was a skilled boxer, had little KO power, fast hands, and a very solid chin? Chris Byrd. Am I saying Ali would get his ass kicked like Chris Byrd ? no (I may have been 4 years ago, but not right now), I'm saying Ali would be undersized and out gunned...not that he wasn't used to that but he may have been used to that bigger person in the ring lacking in technical boxing skill and this would not be the case if they fought. However improbable it is to consider Wlad winning this fight it's not impossible.
Duly noted that Ali has never faced someone of Wlad's physical dimensions. But Ali was in a golden age of HWs and somehow he usually finds a way to win. I dont' think there is an debate that his resume is more impressive than Wlads?
In these mythical matchup let's say you put Wlad in 1967 against Ali without any of today's advancement in medical sports science and nutrition along with 15 round fights where he is known not to have great stamina, then really I don't fancy his chance against Ali. He may not even be 243. If you put an 25 year old Ali in 2006 against the 30 year old Wlad with all the nutritional supplements and advancement in medical sports science I see quite possibly him being even heavier (maybe around 220-225) and retaining all his quickness and speed, Ali still has to be the heavy favorite.
Wlad is very good for this era, but I just don't really fancy his chance against an Prime Foreman, ALi, etc.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lyle
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
Lyle you obviously don't know anything about Tyson because he's the worst possible match-up for Wlad. He'd beat up Wlad so badly it would be nasty to watch. Tyson had more technical skill in his left pinky than Wlad has in his entire arsenal.
I know Mike Tyson got rocked by Bruno, Bonecrusher Smith, Buster Douglas, and Holyfield...all of which we can assume that don't hit as hard as Wladimir.
I know Tyson had trouble with Tony Tucker, Buster Douglas, and Lennox Lewis all of whom were tall lanky boxer/punchers
I mean I get where you are coming from it could be like Tyson-Golota but it could just as easily be like Tyson-Douglas.
Yes Mike had great head movement he cut off the run really well but in hindsight he didn't work all that great on the inside, he allowed for fighters to tie him up, he could get stymied by the jab alone, and the longer you lasted with him the less likely Tyson was to win.
I know no one Wlad has fought has had Tyson-esque head movement but a lot of guys have just stopped looking for a win and started looking for a way out after a few rounds of eating that jab.
It's not a sure thing either way is all I am saying I'd say 60-40 out of 100 fights Tyson-Wlad. That's not unreasonable is it? I mean it may be unreasonable to the people who think Tyson could beat anyone ever in the history of but hey I'm just trying to be reasonable here
hahaha Its admirable how you defend your fighter Lyle. Its just too bad you couldn't have chosen a better fighter to defend.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
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Originally Posted by
Hulk
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Originally Posted by
Lyle
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Originally Posted by
sumkalambay
Lyle you obviously don't know anything about Tyson because he's the worst possible match-up for Wlad. He'd beat up Wlad so badly it would be nasty to watch. Tyson had more technical skill in his left pinky than Wlad has in his entire arsenal.
I know Mike Tyson got rocked by Bruno, Bonecrusher Smith, Buster Douglas, and Holyfield...all of which we can assume that don't hit as hard as Wladimir.
I know Tyson had trouble with Tony Tucker, Buster Douglas, and Lennox Lewis all of whom were tall lanky boxer/punchers
I mean I get where you are coming from it could be like Tyson-Golota but it could just as easily be like Tyson-Douglas.
Yes Mike had great head movement he cut off the run really well but in hindsight he didn't work all that great on the inside, he allowed for fighters to tie him up, he could get stymied by the jab alone, and the longer you lasted with him the less likely Tyson was to win.
I know no one Wlad has fought has had Tyson-esque head movement but a lot of guys have just stopped looking for a win and started looking for a way out after a few rounds of eating that jab.
It's not a sure thing either way is all I am saying I'd say 60-40 out of 100 fights Tyson-Wlad. That's not unreasonable is it? I mean it may be unreasonable to the people who think Tyson could beat anyone ever in the history of but hey I'm just trying to be reasonable here
hahaha Its admirable how you defend your fighter Lyle. Its just too bad you couldn't have chosen a better fighter to defend.
Actually, his arguments make a lot of sense. NOt saying Wlad would have automatically beaten them all but in all honesty, I think he would have had all his chances. Sometimes the halo of peoples from the past shine to hard that we tend to see them a lot more than what they used to be. Tyson was very good but lacked discipline and struggled against slick guys, especially if they could make it to the fifth rounds where Tyson was then starting to fade dramatically. Maybe it would have been different is D'Amato would have lived longer. Maybe not, we'll never know, but fact, Tyson got beaten badly by Holyfield and LEwis because they were slick and rolling around him and he just couldn't deal with it. As for Ali and the others, I think Wlad would have had his chance, too. Most definitely.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
I think Wlad would have beaten Joe Frazier. Joe had a good left and all, but Wlad would have kept control of him with the jab and kept putting that hammer of a right on him until Joe's corner called it off.
I think a prime Tyson gives Wlad a run, but probably falls short. Mike's head spead would have made him miss and Tyson would have countered to the body or anything else Wlad left open. It would have been a more controlled version of what Lamon Brewster did in their first fight.
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
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Originally Posted by
Hulk
hahaha Its admirable how you defend your fighter Lyle. Its just too bad you couldn't have chosen a better fighter to defend.
...yeah if only I could have hopped on the Mayorga bandwagon :beat:
Re: Wladimir Klitschko: Who would he beat?
people actually think Wlad beats Frazier & Tyson :Lol: Wlad has a better chance against Ali
He might just beat Joe Louis. I'll give you that. Wlad is big and athletic and would pose problems to the slow-footed Joe Louis.
