Shane would win easily hence it is a better fight for Manny Pac.
Berto would pulverise JMM too.
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Shane would win easily hence it is a better fight for Manny Pac.
Berto would pulverise JMM too.
He's not any more bloated than Pacquiao at 147. He's smart enough not to try to come in at 147, he weighed in at 142, and weighed 148 at fightnight against Floyd. That's roughly what Manny does. Stylistically a flat footed, counter puncher who relies on combinations just won't do well against Mayweather who is always light footed, and has incredible defensive skills. I honestly think Manny has improved his distance and timing, and he wouldn't be too trouble by MArquez. I think Mosley is a way more legitimate opponent above 140.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
Jumping the 140 division is not the way to go for JMM. Fighting Khan(Pacman stablemate) would be the better way to go. As far as Berto, he can fight the winner of Bradley vs Alexander at 147 or Cotto. A victory against either will raise Pacman's attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::Arum: Berto Needs More Exposure To Get a Pacquiao ShotQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
I like his idea. He's a genius bastard.
JMM fighting and winning against Berto will eliminate the other contender and put him at the forefront of the list of those who would want to fight Manny. If Manny would still not fight JMM after that (provided that Floyd is still unable to fight him), then it can definitely be said that Pacquiao is ducking him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant LiveJumping the 140 division is not the way to go for JMM. Fighting Khan(Pacman stablemate) would be the better way to go. As far as Berto, he can fight the winner of Bradley vs Alexander at 147 or Cotto. A victory against either will raise Pacman's attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::Arum: Berto Needs More Exposure To Get a Pacquiao ShotQuote:
Originally Posted by :::PSL:::
I like his idea. He's a genius bastard.
If JMM was more than willing to fight Mayweather at the higher weight, why not someone who has less skill and experience as Berto?
This is ridiculous. Why on earth should the LW champion of the world need to go up to WW and fight someone as big as Berto? At least when Pac first stepped up he drained Oscar down to the level of a corpse. And of course, here are the Pac fans saying that the hated nemesis Marquez must go up to WW and fight a young undefeated champ in Berto to get his shot at Manny! It is laughable, it truly is.
There should never be a fight with Pac at 147 and Marquez should stick to his guns on that. Furthermore, it looks to me like a fight with Mosley will mean that a Marquez fight can not realistically materialise until at least a year from now. By then he will be 38 and to make him move up to WW too? Fuck that! Marquez should not agree to fight Manny unless it is at 140. One guy comes down and the other moves up....just what Manny did to Oscar, but Manny has no issues losing those pounds whatoever which levels the playing field and we get a fight which is skills against skills rather that "I am used to being heavier and stronger and now I will crush you".
Otherwise Marquez should forget about it. He has beaten Manny twice and we all know it. Just as long as Manny is satisfied with the one paper W over Marquez he has on his resume, right?
JMM fought a WW in Mayweather who happens to be the 2nd P4P (1st to some) in the planet. If he thought that he had a chance with Floyd then, why not Berto who is less skilled and has less experience? Oh yeah, because there is no money. And I would not blame JMM for this. That is just a suggestion if he wants to be on the forefront of the line to fight Pacquiao but he doesn't have to. He can at least fight those notable fighters at 140 to get a better chance (Khan, winner of Alexander vs Bradley).Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Here we go again. No matter how many times it was posted in this forum that that was Oscar's term, you still forget (intentionally, I'm sure). And I haven't seen a corpse that fights back. Watch the first few rounds of that fight again.Quote:
At least when Pac first stepped up he drained Oscar down to the level of a corpse.
Who said that he must go up? Mine is just a suggestion. If you read my other post in this thread, I also suggested that he goes up to 140 which, I believe, is what you also suggested. What would be laughable is if JMM's next fight is again in the 135 lb division and then would want to challenge Pac after the Pacquiao-Mosley fight.Quote:
And of course, here are the Pac fans saying that the hated nemesis Marquez must go up to WW and fight a young undefeated champ in Berto to get his shot at Manny! It is laughable, it truly is.
Pacquiao is on top of the boxing world right now and can dictate the terms. If JMM wants to fight him, then he should go up to Manny's weight division. If not, then he nor his promoter should not even give a hint that he'd want to fight Pacquiao.Quote:
There should never be a fight with Pac at 147 and Marquez should stick to his guns on that.
Manny fights at least twice a year so if JMM puts himself in the best position, he will likely be the next opponent. The key here, as one poster had said, is patience.Quote:
Furthermore, it looks to me like a fight with Mosley will mean that a Marquez fight can not realistically materialise until at least a year from now.
Here we go with this Oscar thing again.Quote:
Marquez should not agree to fight Manny unless it is at 140. One guy comes down and the other moves up....just what Manny did to Oscar
And what makes you think that Manny has no issues losing those pounds? Manny hasn't weighted less than 140 lbs since the Hatton fight on May 2009. Marquez can weight whatever he wants 24 hrs before the fight but on fight night, their weight would be close since Manny's fight weight against Margarito is just 148.Quote:
but Manny has no issues losing those pounds whatoever which levels the playing field and we get a fight which is skills against skills rather that "I am used to being heavier and stronger and now I will crush you".
I agree with you here. If Marquez can not go up to Manny's weight division, then he should forget about it.Quote:
Otherwise Marquez should forget about it.
Who is this 'all' that you are talking about? The people who watched the fight are in the hundred thousand. Knowing what the few thinks is not even representative of what the hundred thousand thinks. If Marquez is satisfied with Manny's 'paper W' (according to you) over him, then he does not need to go after Manny.Quote:
He has beaten Manny twice and we all know it. Just as long as Manny is satisfied with the one paper W over Marquez he has on his resume, right?
I am also disappointed with Manny's choice of Mosley as the next opponent but I would not lose any sleep over it since I am not the one would will be absorbing the punches in that fight. I do not think that Shane is Manny's best opponent out there but other posters here think that he is. If I am in Manny's shoes and knows that I will be criticized whoever I fight that is not named Mayweather, then might as well get criticized while getting an excellent payday.
Oscar wanted to move down to WW, and he actually tried to come in light against Pacquiao because he underestimated Pacquiao's punching power and boxing skills. Everyone was telling Oscar he could easily outbox Pacquiao, and he came down way too early, and couldn't even rehydrate any weight back on. Oscar shot himself in the foot there.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Why would Pacquiao move down when he was the way bigger draw unless he wants to fight at 140? It makes no sense, and Marquez has no barganing chip to work with. Manny holds all the cards in negotiations, and Marquez would have to come up to 147 to face him. Like mayweather did with Oscar De La Hoya. If you want to fight the guy who will make you the most money you have to play by his rules.
IT IS WHAT IT IS AT THIS POINT
Who should JMM fight next. IMO, either Bradley or Khan. At this point, that fight would be better then a Berto fight at 147. For one JMM would lose. 2. The weight limit is 147. If Manny can fight at 140 first and get use to the weight in a victory, then he can just go up a few more pounds so his body can adjust. Jumping up so far in weight at one time against someone who been in that weight division spell disaster.
Mosley would be the obvious choice, but after watching him gas out after 3 rounds against Mayweather, i do wonder how he'd manage to stay busy for a full 12 rounds, or up until he starches Marquez.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Agree on that. Marquez can make him look ordinary even if he wins it beyond doubt.
Mosley is more dangerous because of the one overhandhand right KO power. though there is a possibility that PAC shut him out.
Mosley presents the most money. I would prefer Berto. :(
I am well aware that Oscar agreed to fight at WW, but it was a weight that he hadn't fought at in many years. It was a foolish decision to make and he clearly didn't expect Manny to carry his speed and power the way he did. None of us did really and I recall criticising the fight because it wasn't reasonable to ask a fighter to move up 2 weight divisions to fight a much bigger guy. However, in this instance it worked. Roach knew Oscar would be drained and knew that he couldn't pull the trigger. Roach saw these things better than any of us because he had worked so closely with Oscar. I am not attacking Manny for that. He shrugged his shoulders and had faith in himself, it worked.Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheNeutralCornerJMM fought a WW in Mayweather who happens to be the 2nd P4P (1st to some) in the planet. If he thought that he had a chance with Floyd then, why not Berto who is less skilled and has less experience? Oh yeah, because there is no money. And I would not blame JMM for this. That is just a suggestion if he wants to be on the forefront of the line to fight Pacquiao but he doesn't have to. He can at least fight those notable fighters at 140 to get a better chance (Khan, winner of Alexander vs Bradley).Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
Here we go again. No matter how many times it was posted in this forum that that was Oscar's term, you still forget (intentionally, I'm sure). And I haven't seen a corpse that fights back. Watch the first few rounds of that fight again.Quote:
At least when Pac first stepped up he drained Oscar down to the level of a corpse.
Who said that he must go up? Mine is just a suggestion. If you read my other post in this thread, I also suggested that he goes up to 140 which, I believe, is what you also suggested. What would be laughable is if JMM's next fight is again in the 135 lb division and then would want to challenge Pac after the Pacquiao-Mosley fight.Quote:
And of course, here are the Pac fans saying that the hated nemesis Marquez must go up to WW and fight a young undefeated champ in Berto to get his shot at Manny! It is laughable, it truly is.
Pacquiao is on top of the boxing world right now and can dictate the terms. If JMM wants to fight him, then he should go up to Manny's weight division. If not, then he nor his promoter should not even give a hint that he'd want to fight Pacquiao.Quote:
There should never be a fight with Pac at 147 and Marquez should stick to his guns on that.
Manny fights at least twice a year so if JMM puts himself in the best position, he will likely be the next opponent. The key here, as one poster had said, is patience.Quote:
Furthermore, it looks to me like a fight with Mosley will mean that a Marquez fight can not realistically materialise until at least a year from now.
Here we go with this Oscar thing again.Quote:
Marquez should not agree to fight Manny unless it is at 140. One guy comes down and the other moves up....just what Manny did to Oscar
And what makes you think that Manny has no issues losing those pounds? Manny hasn't weighted less than 140 lbs since the Hatton fight on May 2009. Marquez can weight whatever he wants 24 hrs before the fight but on fight night, their weight would be close since Manny's fight weight against Margarito is just 148.Quote:
but Manny has no issues losing those pounds whatoever which levels the playing field and we get a fight which is skills against skills rather that "I am used to being heavier and stronger and now I will crush you".
I agree with you here. If Marquez can not go up to Manny's weight division, then he should forget about it.Quote:
Otherwise Marquez should forget about it.
Who is this 'all' that you are talking about? The people who watched the fight are in the hundred thousand. Knowing what the few thinks is not even representative of what the hundred thousand thinks. If Marquez is satisfied with Manny's 'paper W' (according to you) over him, then he does not need to go after Manny.Quote:
He has beaten Manny twice and we all know it. Just as long as Manny is satisfied with the one paper W over Marquez he has on his resume, right?
I am also disappointed with Manny's choice of Mosley as the next opponent but I would not lose any sleep over it since I am not the one would will be absorbing the punches in that fight. I do not think that Shane is Manny's best opponent out there but other posters here think that he is. If I am in Manny's shoes and knows that I will be criticized whoever I fight that is not named Mayweather, then might as well get criticized while getting an excellent payday.
Having said that though, if Oscar, who was the big money draw can make sacrifices to make a fight with Manny, then why can't Manny make a few sacrifices to give the fans another fight with a tough opponent in Marquez? We have seen that Marquez gives him more trouble than anyone else. What better way to prove your greatness? To move down 1 division and ask Marquez to go up 1 division. To expect Marquez to go up 2 divisions and fight at a weight where he has no pedigree is just to tarnish the matchup before it even begins and is far worse than the CW's.
And most boxing writers had Marquez winning that second fight, just as many of us on the forums do too. Close fight, but Marquez edged it despite the KD. Juan Manuel Marquez vs. Manny Pacquiao (2nd meeting) - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
If there are no compromises then I don't see any value in the fight. Pacquiao should want to compromise and try and gain a legitimate win over Marquez, but if he thinks that having to go 12 against an opponent with that kind of style is too much then I can understand him wanting to give it a miss. It would really answer whether Manny has really improved or if it is a case of just picking come forward fighters since moving up (except Clottey, who doesn't throw punches) though.
I am no Pac hater but I agree with most of what Miles has said in his posts. The point highlighted above is a superb statement. My main problem with Manny fighting Mosley as an opponent is that at the age of 40, I see Mosley struggling to deal with the speed and volume of punches that Manny throws. If Manny were to agree to drop to 140 and fight Marquez, I'd see this as more of an even fight as Manny wouldn't be weight drained based on the weight he's been entering the ring at for his recent fights. The best fighter in the world should want to test himself to the limit to prove he is just that rather than seeking to gain advantages just because of the bigger name.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles