should mayweather continue to be ranked in the top P4P in 2011?

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by miles

Sure fighters aren't as active as in the past, but to hardened boxing fans PFP does matter. Personally, it isn't something I care too much about because it is extremely subjective, but I can see why some fans take it quite seriously. I do think that if a current PFP list is to exist in the eyes of fans then it should consist of current active fighters who are taking part in meaningful bouts, even if only twice a year.

Floyd for me is disqualified in that regard. And Floyd coming back and beating Paulie Malignaggi or whoever should not be enough to put him at the top of the pile. He needs to make the meaningful fights that exist out there for him and that means Manny or Martinez. You can't come back and be top dog on the back of tune up fights. Can Floyd still beat the best in his mid 30's? There is no sign of us finding out as of yet and tune ups aren't going to help us distinguish anything.

I agree with Elterrible that Martinez is the most impressive fighter today in that regard. Straight fights against very solid opposition. No catchweights, no questionable timing of opponents etc. The man is on the trajectory up. Manny has stalled with his leftovers and Floyd has gone AWOL.

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Actually Martinez's last two fights have been at catchweight. You just didn't notice because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacqiao.

Also he defended his 160 title last time out against a fighter from the 154 lb division who was not only completely unranked at 160 lbs but had never fought in that weight class either. Again, none of you noticed this because Sergio's name is not Manny Pacquiao :)

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who did the Catchweight favor? Williams and Dzinziruk

at what weight did Sergio Martinez win the LINEAL MIDDLEWEIGHT championship against the then LINEAL MIDDLEWEIGHT CHAMPION Kelly Pavlik? oh right 160

Pacquiao's last two "titles at different weight classes" have been won at catch weights, so if you really don't even count those two it's 6, tieing DLH which all of a sudden doesn't sound so stellar seeing how no one made that big of a deal when DLH was the only 6 weight class champion in the history of the sport :-\

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I have no problem with Martinez at all I'm just highlighting the inconsistencies here.

The rest of your post exposes you to more easy criticism though. I'm tempted to go there, highlighting Pavliks devastingly one sided loss to B Hop that had Manny fought a fighter coming off that performace would have been met with derision for example. Or maybe to argue your point that seems to be catchweights are good as long as they don't disadvantage one opponent, and explain to you that Margarito was allowed by Manny to weigh a full 3 lbs more than when Shane Mosley fought him a year before which surely meant the catchweight was to his advantage more than Manny's,

Had Manny fought him at 147 he would have won even easier, but instead he allowed him to gain three pounds more. That says a lot imo.

Anyway, I won't go there. :)

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Martinez didn't pick up Pavlik right after the defeat, he had bounced back and was still undefeated at Middleweight, unlike Manny picking up Mayweather's leftovers in Mosley who didn't even win a fight in 2010, the catchweight against Margarito still benefited Pacquiao cause it was only at 150 so that Manny could say he "fought at jr.middleweight" and pick up a trinket then go on to call himself champion, if at 150 Margarito was able to hurt Manny with a whack on his back i'm sure those extra 4 lbs. would have had an impact, Manny fighting Margarito at 150 doesn't say anything to me other than he's used a lot of smoke and mirrors to get to the point he is now, if he would have beaten Dzinziruk the way he did Margarito at the full weight limit than i'd be inclined to say different, but apart from a certain nuthugger who really thought that Margarito was going to win? no one, same thing going on against Shane, it's easy to flip shit around to get it to work in your favor hell you do it all the time

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Unlike the heralded Dzinziruk you mean who everybody was certain was going to destroy Martinez :rolleyes:

It was amazing he that he came through such a battle with the win, surprised us all right...

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look back at the threads and you'll see that a hell of a lot more guys gave Dzinziruk a chance than those that gave Margarito any chance, Dzinziruk was and still is #1 at 154 IMO, and was undefeated going in against Martinez unlike Tony who had just gotten his ass beaten badly by Shane and then looked like shit against a journeyman after a year layoff :-X

Define this term p4p. What does it mean?

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Define this term p4p. What does it mean?

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:yay2: :pimp2: :greedy: .....:biteit: Has to be one of these...or all 4

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Define this term p4p. What does it mean?

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:yay2: :pimp2: :greedy: .....:biteit: Has to be one of these...or all 4

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Lol. Cheers.

absolutely....not

Still no

Pound for Pound list i think are kinda worthless they were only brought about for the lower weights.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Define this term p4p. What does it mean?

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THAT is of course the essential question. What it mean in Robinson's time was something like the following "If all fighters brought their natural gifts and acquired skills into one weight division? Who would be the champion?"

In other words in ANY comparison, Ray Robinson was a VERY tall welter, so he'd be a VERY tall light heavy (6'3?) or a very tall feather (5'9?) and given he was a legendary puncher at 147, he'd be a legendary (Foster-like) puncher at 175 or a legendary (Saddler-like) puncher at feather. Etc. Etc. Etc.

In today's terms, for example, I could readily see the 130 pound Manny P. (had he progressed technically to where he is today) being p4p #1. What I just cannot see is a short, unmdersized welterweight being p4p #1.

But I think your point may be that today we lack a common definition and I'd have to agree with that.

Marble to me i think Pound for pound is flawed because when your bigger your style would be different. I mean look at Wlad then look at Pac, if Pac was Wlad size think he fight differently. Only reason they came out with pound for pound is because they wanted to rank Robinson best fighter in the world. Which they could not do with out pound for pound because heavyweights would kill Robinson.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Marble to me i think Pound for pound is flawed because when your bigger your style would be different. I mean look at Wlad then look at Pac, if Pac was Wlad size think he fight differently. Only reason they came out with pound for pound is because they wanted to rank Robinson best fighter in the world. Which they could not do with out pound for pound because heavyweights would kill Robinson.

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The p4p concept pre-dates Ray Robinson by at least twenty years. The term was applied to Tony Canzoneri and for all I know was applied to others earlier.

The assumption behind p4p is that you're wrong ;) The assumption says if Manny was a heavy he'd be a lightning fast, enormously athletic, undersized heavyweight and that he could fight that style at say 210. Of course that assumption is, ahem, well, uh, questionable shall we say? :)

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Originally Posted by marbleheadmaui

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Marble to me i think Pound for pound is flawed because when your bigger your style would be different. I mean look at Wlad then look at Pac, if Pac was Wlad size think he fight differently. Only reason they came out with pound for pound is because they wanted to rank Robinson best fighter in the world. Which they could not do with out pound for pound because heavyweights would kill Robinson.

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The p4p concept pre-dates Ray Robinson by at least twenty years. The term was applied to Tony Canzoneri and for all I know was applied to others earlier.

The assumption behind p4p is that you're wrong ;) The assumption says if Manny was a heavy he'd be a lightning fast, enormously athletic, undersized heavyweight and that he could fight that style at say 210. Of course that assumption is, ahem, well, uh, questionable shall we say? :)

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Was it Canzoneri or Jimmy McLarnin? I heard it was McLarnin. Admittedly, I've absorbed a number of shots over the years that could potentially compromise my memory.