Bernard is historically greater than Manny or Floyd

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

Jean Pascal appears to have skyrocketed Bernard Hopkins legacy ...well at least to some of the members here.

Who can we compare from Floyd and Pac's resume in terms of accomplishment and stature?


Lehlo Ledwabba is clearly the best 122lbs fighter when Pacquiao fought him and maybe the same with Jose luis Castillo at 135 for Floyd. But Bhop was 46 and Pacquiao and Floyd were young. so that makes it less impressive? maybe ...but what is the summary of what Hopkins have done before becoming this legendary old fighter?


1. Future/Former Lightheavyweight champs Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver
2. Wins over Dela Hoya and Trinidad
3. Win over Kelly Pavlik @170
4. 3 Wins over Robert Allen, Keith Holmes , William Joppy



Records in comparison

Hopkins = 60 Fights 52 Wins 5 losses 2 Draws
Floyd = 41 Fights 41 Wins 0 losses 0 Draws
Pac = 58 Fights 53 Wins 3 losses 2 Draws


ATM

1. Pac 2. Bhop 3. Floyd

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If you're going to dissect him be sure to go all the way. Much like they do everyone else.

1- Glenn Johnson wasn't prime just like Bhop wasn't prime when lost to RJJ so he gets no credit for that

2- Tarver was weight drained from filming the Balboa movie, so he gets no credit for that.

3- Oscar, Tito, (you forgot Winky) we all blown up smaller fighters. Oscar showed he couldn't handle 160 when Sturm whooped his ass the fight before. Tito was just very good smaller man who was beaten by the bigger man, Winky looked like shit fighting at 170. As did Pavlik who lost his power going up. So no credit for those

4- William Joppy was destroyed by Tito Trinidad and was just mop up duty. Robert who????? and Keith who????

I mean go away the way with it, the same way posters on here do the same to Floyd and Manny.

He basically lost to legit men his size. RJJ, JC, and JT twice. RJJ had a broken wrist, JC was a white boy (sarcasm), and JT considering what's happen to him as off late that looks pretty bad on hopkins resume.

Disclaimer: I actually like BHOP, only picked against him once in his whole career. Against RJJ.

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by miron_lang

Jean Pascal appears to have skyrocketed Bernard Hopkins legacy ...well at least to some of the members here.

Who can we compare from Floyd and Pac's resume in terms of accomplishment and stature?


Lehlo Ledwabba is clearly the best 122lbs fighter when Pacquiao fought him and maybe the same with Jose luis Castillo at 135 for Floyd. But Bhop was 46 and Pacquiao and Floyd were young. so that makes it less impressive? maybe ...but what is the summary of what Hopkins have done before becoming this legendary old fighter?


1. Future/Former Lightheavyweight champs Glen Johnson and Antonio Tarver
2. Wins over Dela Hoya and Trinidad
3. Win over Kelly Pavlik @170
4. 3 Wins over Robert Allen, Keith Holmes , William Joppy



Records in comparison

Hopkins = 60 Fights 52 Wins 5 losses 2 Draws
Floyd = 41 Fights 41 Wins 0 losses 0 Draws
Pac = 58 Fights 53 Wins 3 losses 2 Draws


ATM

1. Pac 2. Bhop 3. Floyd

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If you're going to dissect him be sure to go all the way. Much like they do everyone else.

1- Glenn Johnson wasn't prime just like Bhop wasn't prime when lost to RJJ so he gets no credit for that

2- Tarver was weight drained from filming the Balboa movie, so he gets no credit for that.

3- Oscar, Tito, (you forgot Winky) we all blown up smaller fighters. Oscar showed he couldn't handle 160 when Sturm whooped his ass the fight before. Tito was just very good smaller man who was beaten by the bigger man, Winky looked like shit fighting at 170. As did Pavlik who lost his power going up. So no credit for those

4- William Joppy was destroyed by Tito Trinidad and was just mop up duty. Robert who????? and Keith who????

I mean go away the way with it, the same way posters on here do the same to Floyd and Manny.

He basically lost to legit men his size. RJJ, JC, and JT twice. RJJ had a broken wrist, JC was a white boy (sarcasm), and JT considering what's happen to him as off late that looks pretty bad on hopkins resume.

Disclaimer: I actually like BHOP, only picked against him once in his whole career. Against RJJ.

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Now this post is fair. People have shit on Pac and Mayweather's resume countless times and any other fighter. You know what they say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I for the life of me still do not understand the huge difference in Manny and Folydes resumes i mean they are pretty close Manny holds lineal in only one more division then Floyde. Manyy has a few better wins then Floyde but he also lost more then him as well i think Floyde being undefeated equals them out.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

I for the life of me still do not understand the huge difference in Manny and Folydes resumes i mean they are pretty close Manny holds lineal in only one more division then Floyde. Manyy has a few better wins then Floyde but he also lost more then him as well i think Floyde being undefeated equals them out.

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fair enough

And since were tearing down resumes i guess you could say Pac was Koed by nobodies and then out boxed by a shot Morales who was coming off loses in every time they fought. Lost both the Jmm fights and then went on to beat a weight drain Oscar and hatton both beat by Floyde already. Then went on to defeat a Beat up Cotto, a Beat up Margrito, punching bag in Clotty, and old as fuck Mosley who had not won a fight in over a year. If i had to rank them now i go Pac and Floyde tied then Hopkins after.

Also with the weight class Manny moved up lets be real here only reason it is 10 is because he was 16 to start with and lower weight classes change in a few pounds. To me Evander Holyfeild moving form 176 to start with and then going on to become one of the greatest heavies of all time is on par with Manny. So if one weight divsion in the higher weights is equal to 10 below i think there are to many divisions. Also Manny is a top 20 i think so don't think i rank him low also then Floyde is a top 20 as well.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

And since were tearing down resumes i guess you could say Pac was Koed by nobodies and then out boxed by a shot Morales who was coming off loses in every time they fought. Lost both the Jmm fights and then went on to beat a weight drain Oscar and hatton both beat by Floyde already. Then went on to defeat a Beat up Cotto, a Beat up Margrito, punching bag in Clotty, and old as fuck Mosley who had not won a fight in over a year. If i had to rank them now i go Pac and Floyde tied then Hopkins after.

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now that's straightforward degrading.
1. Pac's ko losses are ages ago if rematched he can oblitrerate both foes in a round.
2. the shot Morales almost beat a prime Maidana.
3. Jmm should've lost the first fight if it werent for judging error. the second fight was close, their rubber match will tell the truth.
4. the weight drained oscar issued the challenge not pac.
5. Hatton got ktfo quicker by a smaller man.
6. Cotto got back to back kayo wins after losing to Pac and is currently top 10 p4p.
7. Margarito despite having lost to mosley stll outweighed pac by 17 lbs come fight night and got his orbital bone fucked.
8. clottey was a coward not pacs fault.
9. mosley dropped by the smaller man still a feat by itself.

Floyd on the other hand pushes for unrequired drugtesting to fight Pac as if he is fighting a naturally bigger man in Manny.

Manny was like 20 years old and lineal champ when he got knocked out by a nobody. As for Eric Madiana not that great he has on good win and that win may not turn out to be that great. As for my post it was not ment to be debated on just tearing down a resume.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Also with the weight class Manny moved up lets be real here only reason it is 10 is because he was 16 to start with and lower weight classes change in a few pounds. To me Evander Holyfeild moving form 176 to start with and then going on to become one of the greatest heavies of all time is on par with Manny. So if one weight divsion in the higher weights is equal to 10 below i think there are to many divisions. Also Manny is a top 20 i think so don't think i rank him low also then Floyde is a top 20 as well.

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any complaints on the weightclass should be issued on the four widely-regarded sanctioning bodies (WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO i think.

and with Pac's accomplishments talk to the BWAA whom gave Pac the boxer of the decade award.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Manny was like 20 years old and lineal champ when he got knocked out by a nobody. As for Eric Madiana not that great he has on good win and that win may not turn out to be that great.

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i'll quote bhop, anybody can be knocked out or knocked down its what happens next that counts. and what happened next for Pac was a legendary career that alot of people envy.

Look all i am saying is if there is fucking 10 weight classes for 40 pounds then that is to many weight classes don't you think. As for Margarito having 17 pounds well shit i mean Holyfeild fought and beat guys weighing 30 pounds more then him sometimes think lower weights classes get more credit in pound for pound because there to many lower weight classes. I mean the weight difference in a heavyweight fight sometimes is more weight then the whole 10 weight class i just mention think it is just silly.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Look all i am saying is if there is fucking 10 weight classes for 40 pounds then that is to many weight classes don't you think. As for Margarito having 17 pounds well shit i mean Holyfeild fought and beat guys weighing 30 pounds more then him sometimes think lower weights classes get more credit in pound for pound because there to many lower weight classes. I mean the weight difference in a heavyweight fight sometimes is more weight then the whole 10 weight class i just mention think it is just silly.

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;)

Also i think you do have some good points Pavlik i just don't agree with all of them.

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Originally Posted by Pavlik

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Look all i am saying is if there is fucking 10 weight classes for 40 pounds then that is to many weight classes don't you think. As for Margarito having 17 pounds well shit i mean Holyfeild fought and beat guys weighing 30 pounds more then him sometimes think lower weights classes get more credit in pound for pound because there to many lower weight classes. I mean the weight difference in a heavyweight fight sometimes is more weight then the whole 10 weight class i just mention think it is just silly.

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;)

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i'm not a master in biomechanics i just think that demonstrable strength and power differences show more in the lower weightclasses:-\

Ok lest put it this way who has ever moved up from any weightclass to Heavy and would be considered to be a top 10 atg heavweight champion of all time. There as been one and that is Evander Holyfeild so over the course of how long this sport has been around one guy been able to move up Heavy and be a top 10 I think that is why it is harder to move up so many weight classes when you are in higher weights and become great in them.