The Top Twenty Heavies

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Jimmy Young beat Foreman , Lyle and Ali minus the stench scoring and you never see him pop up on such lists. The most underrated, ignored hev of all time.

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I wouldn't give Jimmy Young that much credit, he had his moments, but he was still just a good journeyman HW.

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

Exellent thread Marb, and although I agree with much of the OP, I tend to stay away from "top 20" or alltime great HW threads, because they're usually subjective/bias. They also don't give proper credit some Pugs deserve for being one of the best of their era and/or the individual merit for their accomplishments tends to be overlooked.

My point? Sure you can make edcucated guesses, compare records/stats, typically Louis & Ali come in first and second "top 20", but who's to say that in their own way, Marciano, Holmes, Dempsey, Johnson, Jeffries, Lewis, et al, wasn't 1st or 2nd, or the greatest HW of all time? I mean isn't this basically just a popularity contest based on opinion?

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Seeing is believing. Its true. We tend to get stuck on the here and now, the familiar. I look at the amount of shit calls and bs calls fight by fight in just the past 10-15 yrs alone that are recorded as history and can only imagine what has been swept under the rug and passed as fact that we've never layed eyes on. Its a fine line and equally you have to respect and speak on ones that blazed a path historically.

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

You take all factors into account: their impact on boxing, level of competition, sheer skill, drawing power..... there's NO way Holmes is anywhere near 3rd on the all-time list.

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20 defences, wins over Norton, taking the punch of Shavers, the event of beating Cooney and beating Ali were great feats.

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I agree with your post Master, except the part about beating Ali, this was a totally shot version of Ali, already showing signs of Pugilistic dementia, who shouldn't have even been in the ring with Holmes.

Doesn't Holmes' 20 HW Championship title defenses, only put him 2nd to Joe Louis at 25?

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Yes which is why I have him 3rd on my list which no one has noticed.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Mars_ax

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

You take all factors into account: their impact on boxing, level of competition, sheer skill, drawing power..... there's NO way Holmes is anywhere near 3rd on the all-time list.

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20 defences, wins over Norton, taking the punch of Shavers, the event of beating Cooney and beating Ali were great feats.

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I agree with your post Master, except the part about beating Ali, this was a totally shot version of Ali, already showing signs of Pugilistic dementia, who shouldn't have even been in the ring with Holmes.

Doesn't Holmes' 20 HW Championship title defenses, only put him 2nd to Joe Louis at 25?

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Yes which is why I have him 3rd on my list which no one has noticed.

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2nd or 3rd for Holmes for me. Probably the most likely to beat a prime Ali imo.

The Larry Holmes who beat Earnie Shavers in there 1st fight, would muller any Heavyweight in history ;)

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Originally Posted by ICB

The Larry Holmes who beat Earnie Shavers in there 1st fight, would muller any Heavyweight in history ;)

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Now all we need to do is convert TitoFan.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by ICB

The Larry Holmes who beat Earnie Shavers in there 1st fight, would muller any Heavyweight in history ;)

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Now all we need to do is convert TitoFan.

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;D

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by ICB

The Larry Holmes who beat Earnie Shavers in there 1st fight, would muller any Heavyweight in history ;)

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Now all we need to do is convert TitoFan.

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;D

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Except for ole corrie sanders