Re: I'm not clamoring for a PAC-PBF anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Quote:
Originally Posted by
shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CFH
Pacquiao's opposition at 147 hasn't been great and the division has been relatively mediocre for a while now, but he's consistently fought the best fighters available (Mayweather aside) and has never ducked anyone.
Give me a break. Clottey, ODLH, Margacheato, Mosley right after getting his ass beat by Floyd? These were not the "best fighters available" at the time of those fights. Go check your back-issues of the Ring, or whatever your favorite ratings are. This is a fact.
Cotto and Clottey (surprisingly) are the most legit fights of Manny's WW run. And that's a Cotto that at least half the fans and commentators were calling shot at the time (which is true -- he's obviously never been the fighter he was before he got pounded with plaster for 10 1/2 rounds).
It's not for nothing that loads of people were angry when the Marg and Mosley fights got made because they were clear mismatches against completely unworthy opponents. (The Margarito match is the worst offender of them all -- no way you can defend that one.)
I'm not saying, Cotto aside, that any of them were great opponents, only that, unless Pacquiao was going to fight Mayweather, there wasn't anyone better available. Ortiz, who despite beating Berto is not a great fighter, had his reputation in tatters and was still at 140 and Berto, while a legit Welter, was viewed similarly. People, myself included, criticised the Margarito and Mosley fights because we wanted to see Pacquiao fight Mayweather, but he choice of opposition was pretty limited at 147. To be honest, I think he would have been better off dropping to 140 and taking on the best of that division, but he didn't do that.
Who would have been better for Pacquiao at 147? Because he would have been as criticized for fighting the two guys you listed as he was for fighting Margarito, Mosley, and Clottey. Maybe Paul Williams, but nobody was jumping to fight him at that point.
1. Mayweather, Margarito, Cotto, Paul Williams, and Mosley were all better opponents at WW when Pac fought ODLH.
2. Cotto was probably the best opponent other than Mayweather when pac fought him; some might argue Mosley would have been better.
3. Mayweather and Mosley were the best opponents when Pac fought Clottey.
4. Mayweather and Berto were the best opponents when Pac signed to fight Mosley (PBF and Ortiz were the best opponents by the time the Mosley fight actually went down).
JMM was not a WW, so I'll leave that one off. Going into it though, it looked like a Gimme for Pac and that was obviously Team Pac's intent.
So it's misleading to say that Pac fought all the best opponents at 147. He did fight three of them, but only Cotto was actually toward the top of the division *at the time Pac agreed to fight him* -- the other two (Mosley and Margacheato) were clearly not the best available by the time Pac agreed to fight them (the same move Floyd pulls). ODLH and Clottey were never thought to be among the cream of the WW crop at any time during Pac's stay in the division.
Who did Mayweather fight during this time?
Irrelevant. The point of this discussion was absolutely not to praise Mayweather. I was just reacting to the notion that Pacquiao only fought the best at WW. They're both cherry-pickers, Manny and May both.
Re: I'm not clamoring for a PAC-PBF anymore
I saw a Manny that was way too cautios. If this fight does get made, it's going to be a snooze fest if Manny fights like he did against JMM because we both know Mayweather won't attack until he's pressed. (something I don't disagree with by the way) I doubt the fight gets made though.
Re: I'm not clamoring for a PAC-PBF anymore
After Pacquiao's last two fights I don't see him using an all out attack. I think if he stays on this tact against counter punchers he'll end up losing to Mayweather in a boring fight. If he can keep down the gas pedal he can out work Floyd I think he can win and it wont be boring.
Re: I'm not clamoring for a PAC-PBF anymore
The big winner from the Pac-JMM fight was.......... FLOYD!!
Now he can add some "valid" reasons to the excuses he always had for not fighting Pac.
"He's beneath me.... not worth the shot."
"I slaughtered Marquez.... Pac barely squeezed by. That proves I'm better."
Then on the OTHER hand.... this is the perfect time for Floyd to go after Pac.
"Hmmm.... he sure looked like a chump against Marquez, the guy I dominated. He [Pac] ain't no threat to my precious "0".
Either way.... Floyd's the big winner. If he chooses never to fight Pac, people will excuse it (as they are now) by saying Pac wouldn't have a shot. And if he DOES fight him.... hell, he'll probably win. Pac's the busier fighter.... but Floyd's defense will frustrate Pac, and leave him vulnerable for counters. Plus Floyd's pretty good with that right hand lead, something Pac would probably eat all night.
On second thought.... I hope they never face each other. I have no stomach to witness the prancing, strutting Floyd crowing about how he's the best who's ever lived and so on and so forth. Let the speculation remain.
Re: I'm not clamoring for a PAC-PBF anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
The big winner from the Pac-JMM fight was.......... FLOYD!!
Now he can add some "valid" reasons to the excuses he always had for not fighting Pac.
"He's beneath me.... not worth the shot."
"I slaughtered Marquez.... Pac barely squeezed by. That proves I'm better."
Then on the OTHER hand.... this is the perfect time for Floyd to go after Pac.
"Hmmm.... he sure looked like a chump against Marquez, the guy I dominated. He [Pac] ain't no threat to my precious "0".
Either way.... Floyd's the big winner. If he chooses never to fight Pac, people will excuse it (as they are now) by saying Pac wouldn't have a shot. And if he DOES fight him.... hell, he'll probably win. Pac's the busier fighter.... but Floyd's defense will frustrate Pac, and leave him vulnerable for counters. Plus Floyd's pretty good with that right hand lead, something Pac would probably eat all night.
On second thought.... I hope they never face each other. I have no stomach to witness the prancing, strutting Floyd crowing about how he's the best who's ever lived and so on and so forth. Let the speculation remain.
thing is Floyd will beat Pacquiao, do it effortlessly as he has most of his other fights, then Pacquiao's fanboys will be the ones using the excuse of, Floyd was too big, Manny was on the slide, Floyd stepped on his foot, Jinky fought with Manny again after she lost his socks
Re: I'm not clamoring for a PAC-PBF anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElTerribleMorales
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
The big winner from the Pac-JMM fight was.......... FLOYD!!
Now he can add some "valid" reasons to the excuses he always had for not fighting Pac.
"He's beneath me.... not worth the shot."
"I slaughtered Marquez.... Pac barely squeezed by. That proves I'm better."
Then on the OTHER hand.... this is the perfect time for Floyd to go after Pac.
"Hmmm.... he sure looked like a chump against Marquez, the guy I dominated. He [Pac] ain't no threat to my precious "0".
Either way.... Floyd's the big winner. If he chooses never to fight Pac, people will excuse it (as they are now) by saying Pac wouldn't have a shot. And if he DOES fight him.... hell, he'll probably win. Pac's the busier fighter.... but Floyd's defense will frustrate Pac, and leave him vulnerable for counters. Plus Floyd's pretty good with that right hand lead, something Pac would probably eat all night.
On second thought.... I hope they never face each other. I have no stomach to witness the prancing, strutting Floyd crowing about how he's the best who's ever lived and so on and so forth. Let the speculation remain.
thing is Floyd will beat Pacquiao, do it effortlessly as he has most of his other fights, then Pacquiao's fanboys will be the ones using the excuse of, Floyd was too big, Manny was on the slide, Floyd stepped on his foot, Jinky fought with Manny again after she lost his socks
It'll be bad both ways. Flomos and Pactards are equally and ridiculously annoying in my eyes. It's rare to find a Floyd or Manny fan who likes the other one. It's always so partisan. It's rare to find people who can look critically at both of them.
Re: I'm not clamoring for a PAC-PBF anymore
So this fight should ideally have happened when Pac was in top form beating Cotto and Marg. Pac Man has passed his peak and is on the slide which is the prefect time for Floyd to take the fight. The ship has sailed on this fight and it is only worth $50 million as opposed to $100 million. :)
Re: I'm not clamoring for a PAC-PBF anymore
I am no longer interested in this boxing match because this is the sport of boxing and there are thousands of fighters all over the world, not just Manny and Floyd. If it did come to brass tacks and the fight was on, I'd have to pick Floyd and I don't like him but he's GOOD. Mayweather is a true student of boxing and he is never out of shape and out of ring distractions are dealt with outside of the square. He is a fighter although I'd prefer to call him a snake in the grass after his last fight., He, make no mistake about it is a fighter with a fighter's mentality. Personally he's a dick but on fight night a solid fighter. He will circle Manny in his range of comfort and send straight punches through Manny's porous defense Ala Marquez but quicker and cut him to ribbons. It could be a very long night for Manny. I didn't always think that way but made the mistakes most fans make, I looked at it as thought I was in his shoes and I was wrong. Floyd by UD or late KO but I won't hold my breath waiting for them to sign on the dotted line.
Re: I'm not clamoring for a PAC-PBF anymore
Floyd-pac is a gay fight, always was. Mismatch.. To think that people have been clamoring for this mismatch for the past 3 years is something i cant understand..
A superfight is a superfight only when the bout is dead even at 50-50.. When u have no freakin clue as to who would win... Rafael Marquez-Vazquez was one, Chico-Corrales was another...
To casual observers, a fight between two of the biggest names in boxing can be regarded as a superfight but true boxing fans know better.. they look for styles and chemistry between two fighters.
I remember back in late 06, there were two fights on the horizon.. Marquez-Vazquez and Delahoya-Floyd.. I swear everybody and their mamas were chatting away about Hoya-Floyd while like 10 posters were discussing Marquez-Vazquez.. hardcore boxing guys know better... We just knew Marquez-Vazquez was going to be extra special unlike the hoya fight.. It just had that Chico-Castillo vibe to it...
floyd-Pac= one sided beatdown.. uneventful night...
Re: I'm not clamoring for a PAC-PBF anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
I'm going hiding for the meantime. Congrats to Mr. Marquez I had you winning too. I will forever love PAC regardless;)
I'm past caring too.
I must admit, I will watch it if Floyd mans up & just gets on with a fight that he could win if he believed in himself, but I wouldn't be too sad if the fight didn't happen now.
They pontificated for so long that one or either of them could be past their bests whenever the fight happens now.
