Re: Cotto"s only HOPE to wın ıs by KO FAST
I wasn't trying to say anything about the styles really and I agree with all that. It's simply the only opponent they do share and I think it counts for something that Cotto was stopped wheras Marquez went 36 rounds when you are talking about skills.
At his peak I agree Cotto wouldve beaten Marquez, I'd only have him a slight favourite if that had come off today say at welter though. Could be wrong about Cotto but it's just my feeling, I look at how crap Margarito and Mayorga were for the most part and yet he still doesn't nearly let punches go the way he used to. Floyd might just really have a showcase fight here imo:cool:.
Re: Cotto"s only HOPE to wın ıs by KO FAST
Certainly on paper the fight has the potential to be thrilling, but I feel Floyd shows his class & begins to break Cotto down, I can even see Floyd stopping Cotto late
Cotto needs to come out fast, pump that jab, double it. Cotto’s got underrated footwork. That hook will be dangerous to Floyd. Bodywork.
But if he doesn’t get him early I think Floyd takes over!
Re: Cotto"s only HOPE to wın ıs by KO FAST
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Originally Posted by
armin
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Originally Posted by
Slim the BoxingManiac
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Originally Posted by
armin
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Originally Posted by
Slim the BoxingManiac
Every person that's on Floyd's nuts right now doesn't seem to realize his cherry picking ways. Ortiz, Marquez, and Mosley weren't the best fighters in the world when Mayweather fought them. Cotto is Floyd's best competition since Hatton, at the very least.
Give me those three opponents over a way past it margarito and mayorga and over a b level yuri foreman...so floyd will be far above the level of fighters cotto has fought recently, don't think the reverse is true.
A good fight with Pac > A win against any guy Floyd's beaten since Hatton. ;D
I also wasn't comparing the level of competition between Floyd and Cotto. I was saying that Floyd hasn't been fighting top level opponents, and Cotto IS a top level opponent.
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Originally Posted by
armyash
Cotto beating Margarito was about nothing else other than exorcising the demons. What that would have done for Cotto mentally is priceless.
Mayweather has faced good guys lately. Marquez is an absolute warrior but he was too small, his heart and skills were not going to make up that disadvantage. Mosley is a name, but was there to last the distance. Ortiz was a good live opponent but he fucked things for himself before the fight really got started.
Cotto's fights have been confidence builders, Mayweathers have been money makers.
It's hard to predict this fight really as we don't know if Cotto has much left. Also Mayweather fights so infrequently and he is at an age where the activity can creep up on him.
We can't deny that on paper it is a very good fight.
Absolutely spot on, mate. :)
Shane had beaten marg in his fight prior to floyd, ortiz beat berto I don't see how they weren't top level??? Marquez is top level as well but was to small...I'm not sure this version of cotto is better than the shane or ortiz floyd fought. I guess I just have far less faith in cotto than most on here it seems
Shane was still shot. Margarito's golden wraps were taken, of course he wasn't going to win the fight. Marquez was top level, but he wasn't good for the weight. He hadn't taken the proper time to go up to the weight like he did in his last fight with Manny. Ortiz is crap. Plain crap. The only victory that gives him any light is the one against Berto. Berto sucks, too. The both of them collectively suck at boxing. But the point stands. In his entire career, Ortiz had ONE notable victory. ONE. Don't even try to tell me that he was top level.
Also, Cotto was not weight drained for the Pac fight, fellas. He was one pound lighter. One pound. In the fight before Manny, he was at 146, and against Manny he weighed 145. There should be a minimum two pound weight loss before we should even halfheartedly joke that somebody is weight drained.
Re: Cotto"s only HOPE to wın ıs by KO FAST
Good post Althugz, but I still disagree about Cotto and you sort of reinforce my feeling there. Changing his style may serve him well against almost anyone except Mayweather, but Floyd is the one guy around his weight who clearly surpasses his skills. He can't be on his toes boxing in this one if he wants to win any rounds, his defence is nowhere near that good. I think his chance would be coming forward and investing heavily in the body like he used to, and I have a feeling he can't do that anymore as evidenced in his last couple of fights. Floyd wouldn't be hitting him like Manny or Margarito did but he will still rake him with uppercuts in the pocket and use his elbows as always. I imagine Cotto will start out strong but be broken down and eventually take a beating.
Re: Cotto"s only HOPE to wın ıs by KO FAST
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Originally Posted by
p4pking
Good post Althugz, but I still disagree about Cotto and you sort of reinforce my feeling there. Changing his style may serve him well against almost anyone except Mayweather, but Floyd is the one guy around his weight who clearly surpasses his skills. He can't be on his toes boxing in this one if he wants to win any rounds, his defence is nowhere near that good. I think his chance would be coming forward and investing heavily in the body like he used to, and I have a feeling he can't do that anymore as evidenced in his last couple of fights. Floyd wouldn't be hitting him like Manny or Margarito did but he will still rake him with uppercuts in the pocket and use his elbows as always. I imagine Cotto will start out strong but be broken down and eventually take a beating.
That's the way I see it going
Re: Cotto"s only HOPE to wın ıs by KO FAST
'Been watching the 24/7 series. Hmm.. I think Cotto is already on the other side of the hill. I used to think he's got a shot of winning this. But not anymore. :mad::(
Re: Cotto"s only HOPE to wın ıs by KO FAST
Oh for sure he's a credible opponent. I really like Miguel and do feel he has as much chance as Pacquiao to beat Floyd. NONE;D I think it's pretty safe to say all 3 men aren't getting any better, it's just that with Cotto or Manny losing just an inch could be the difference between a competitive fight and a Mayweather clinic. Floyd doesn't need his legs the way the other 2 would against him due to being so much more sound technically.
Re: Cotto"s only HOPE to wın ıs by KO FAST
It's tough not to like Cotto. He's the epitomy of a likeable fighter. He's had a great career, borderline Hall of Fame. He's a proven warrior. He's a gentemen outside the ring. Heck, as evidence, I've never seen Floyd so complimentary toward an opponent before a fight.
However, let's be honest with ourselves, Cotto has zero chance of winning this fight. What follows are the reasons.
(1) Cotto doesn't have a single physical advantage over Floyd: (i) he's not faster; (ii) he's not fresher; and (iii) he's not bigger.
(2) The current Cotto doesn't present any stylistic problems for Floyd. He not a bigger, pressure fighter, which just based on styles, should be the toughest style for Floyd. The new Cotto boxes more, but he's not a better boxer than Floyd.
(3) Cotto is ill-prepared for the fight because he has never faced elite competition at 154 and he's been relatively inactive the last couple of years. The theory that the promoters are pumping out that Cotto will be tough beacause the fight is at 154 is smoke and mirrors at its finest. Actions speak louder than words. Cotto has showed us nothing to make us believe that he is more effective at 154. Cotto hasn't had one challenging fight on paper, at any weight class, since he lost to Pacquiao. In a relatively decent division, he hasn't faced one top ten junior middleweight. It's remarkable really that the Ring Magazine has ranked him that high for a win over Yuri Foreman. This is just my theory, but I believe Cotto isn't fighting at 147 any longer because he's a veteran that doesn't want to deal with cutting weight. Frankly, there are a number of guys, besides Floyd and Manny, between 147 and 160 that would probably beat Cotto right now. To my untrained eye, Cotto hasn't been the same since Margarito I. That doesn't equate to saying Cotto isn't still a very good fighter, because he is, but he's no longer a p4p level fighter.
(4) Mayweather is the best p4p fighter in the world.
Where does all that leave us? Cotto, who is on a downward trajectory and hasn't faced an elite fighter since Pacqauio, facing the best fighter in the entire world. It's not a recipe for success if you're a Cotto fan. There's just no other way to look at it.
Expect Mayweather to dominate Cotto from round 2 onward. In addition, because Cotto fades in the later rounds of fights, a good bet would be a late round technical knockout, maybe his corner throwing in the towel after Cotto has lost most of the rounds.
Note that in no way is this post meant as a slight on Cotto. He's a terrific boxer who has had an exemplary career.
Re: Cotto"s only HOPE to wın ıs by KO FAST
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Originally Posted by
Althugz
Also for the record P4p, I do see Mayweather winning this fight by eventual stoppage. So again, we're in agreement there.That doesn't make him any less of a credible opponent is all I'm saying. I see Floyd stopping Pac too if they eventually get it going.
Cotto is a credible opponent for anyone at or around 147-160. He's a borderline hall of fame boxer. He's got a good mix of talent and skills and he's a warrior. However, what makes his attractive as an opponent for Mayweather has nothing to do with his skills and all to do with his name and the money he brings to the table. I think there are several fighters at or around that weight that beat Cotto.
Like I said in another post, I don't believe Cotto has been the same since Margarito I. He seems fragile. In addition, I don't think he's any better at 154 than he was 147. I actually think at 154 he's probably more beatable because of his size. He's too small for a big junior middleweight.
Re: Cotto"s only HOPE to wın ıs by KO FAST
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
It's tough not to like Cotto. He's the epitomy of a likeable fighter. He's had a great career, borderline Hall of Fame. He's a proven warrior. He's a gentemen outside the ring. Heck, as evidence, I've never seen Floyd so complimentary toward an opponent before a fight.
However, let's be honest with ourselves, Cotto has zero chance of winning this fight. What follows are the reasons.
(1) Cotto doesn't have a single physical advantage over Floyd: (i) he's not faster; (ii) he's not fresher; and (iii) he's not bigger. Correct on all counts.
(2) The current Cotto doesn't present any stylistic problems for Floyd. He not a bigger, pressure fighter, which just based on styles, should be the toughest style for Floyd. The new Cotto boxes more, but he's not a better boxer than Floyd. Again... no issues here.
(3) Cotto is ill-prepared for the fight because he has never faced elite competition at 154 and he's been relatively inactive the last couple of years. The theory that the promoters are pumping out that Cotto will be tough beacause the fight is at 154 is smoke and mirrors at its finest. Actions speak louder than words. Cotto has showed us nothing to make us believe that he is more effective at 154. Cotto hasn't had one challenging fight on paper, at any weight class, since he lost to Pacquiao. In a relatively decent division, he hasn't faced one top ten junior middleweight. It's remarkable really that the Ring Magazine has ranked him that high for a win over Yuri Foreman. This is just my theory, but I believe Cotto isn't fighting at 147 any longer because he's a veteran that doesn't want to deal with cutting weight. Frankly, there are a number of guys, besides Floyd and Manny, between 147 and 160 that would probably beat Cotto right now. To my untrained eye, Cotto hasn't been the same since Margarito I. That doesn't equate to saying Cotto isn't still a very good fighter, because he is, but he's no longer a p4p level fighter. Not sure whether I agree with all of this. See my comments below.
(4) Mayweather is the best p4p fighter in the world.
Where does all that leave us? Cotto, who is on a downward trajectory and hasn't faced an elite fighter since Pacqauio, facing the best fighter in the entire world. It's not a recipe for success if you're a Cotto fan. There's just no other way to look at it.
Expect Mayweather to dominate Cotto from round 2 onward. In addition, because Cotto fades in the later rounds of fights, a good bet would be a late round technical knockout, maybe his corner throwing in the towel after Cotto has lost most of the rounds.
Note that in no way is this post meant as a slight on Cotto. He's a terrific boxer who has had an exemplary career.
Well thought out post and some excellent points, Rant. However, there are some things you've omitted. See my imbedded comments above, and some additional ones below.
1. I agree that Cotto's best weight is 147. His height and frame are best suited for that division. He's done acceptably well at 154, but 147 is his natural weight. However, Floyd himself comes from the lower divisions. So he is by no means the naturally larger man himself. Powerwise, I think Cotto has the edge.
2. Cotto lost to a cheating Margarito, and was beaten by Pacquaio after abandoning his fight plan early in the fight and going toe-to-toe with the faster Pac. The latter was completely the product of Cotto having a nobody in his corner. He had feuded with his uncle, Evangelista, and had hooked up with Joe Santiago, who had nothing to offer to Miguel. Nothing. Had he had the corner he has now, with Cuban trainer Pedro Diaz, it might have been a whole 'nother story.
3. With Diaz in his corner, Cotto has shown the remarkable ability to reinvent himself. To go back to his boxing and ring generalship roots, when he used to dismantle his opponents with a mixture of hooks to the body, good movement, and power shots inside. He did just that against the much bigger Margarito in their rematch.
So while none of this obviously necessarily translates into a Cotto victory, it does mean he has a better chance than most people give him against Mayweather.
The only other disagreement I have is your HOF assessment. Lots of less worthy fighters have been picked for the HOF. Cotto, in my opinion, is a shoo-in.
