Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
Oh that old one. Well if that's the case then the lower weight classes in boxing are losing out to european football or 'soccer' as the yanks name it!
So by that logic Wlad can thank his lucky stars that Lebron james prefers not to get his face punched for a living and Mayweather is undefeated because the Lionel messi' of the world prefer spot kicking?
LW 2 time Olympic gold medallist Vasyl Lomachenko is evidence of whats to come in the future in the lower divisions too IMO. Some of the greatest amateurs ever were smaller EE's.
Laszlo Papp
Boris Lagutin
Aleksei Tishchenko (still active)
Oleg Saitov (The greatest amateur boxer of the 90's)
Jerzy Kulej
Vladimir Yengibaryan
Imagine had these guys turned pro? More Tszyu's and Lomachenko's will come trust me! Problem is these guys are not westernised and don't speak english! A lot of them shun americana too. It's more to do with culture rather than the lack of talent in the smaller fighters! K2 are the catalyst.
Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
I bet if K2 were two black ghetto americans the ppl who dumb down the division would be all over the division! It's a cliche but it's also true.
Vent your frutrations on Mitchell not K2. LOL. It's not K2's fault that ppl were actually dumb enough to believe that skin pigmentation was an indicator of the talent that lay beneath!
Borders open (approximately in the year 2000) and Eastern-Europeans enter the arena.
Within a decade Americans lose all their titles to Eastern-Europeans. The americans will never be as dominant on such a consistant basis ever again because they actually have
worldwide opposition these days. Just get used to them and stop hating because u sound more pathetic as each year passes.
Why the Hell can I picture you stroking a white cat sitting in a highback back stainless steel chair and breaking into biobolical laughter as you type this. Black ghetto Americans...ffs :p
Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
NFL! NBA! LOL. Again thats like saying all the best MW's are playing in the champions league! Laughable! Also ask yourselves why america had it so good for so long? Could it be that there main protaganist's i.e Soviets and Cubans fought under amateur rules?
Ironic it is talked about on a thread concerning Seth mitchell a former american Football player who has just been brutally spanked by a part time trainer and CW! (Not even a noted CW either!) LOL.
The reason there has yet to be a Vitali or a Wlad in the lower divisions is because 2X olympic gold medallist/World amatueur gold winner Oleg saitov chose not to turn pro! And 2X olympic gold winner Vasyl Lomachenko is yet to fight proffessional!
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_Saitov
-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasyl_Lomachenko
The top 2 HW's of the 00's are eastern european! Lomachenko is considered to be the best amateur of his generation and saitov was the best amateur of the 90's! K2 chose to turn pro. Saitov didn't! All in good time.....
Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
For fuks sake Philosopher:rolleyes:
By your logic if Roy Jones had been, say, Ukranian, fought just the way he did and had the same record, nobody would have given him any respect? Many black athletes in general happen to have a certain fluidity which is very rare amongst whites, especially when you're talking very big men. How popular fighters are has a lot more to do with the way they fight than what colour they are, much as you'd like to believe otherwise.
How many "black ghetto Americans" ever fought anything like Wlad Klitschko to you? Just curious. I'd love to see some examples of this injustice you're on about.
Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
I agree to an extent that how popular some fighters are has a lot more to do with the way they fight! It's totally understand that its difficult for ppl to appreciate scientific minds like K2.
Seth mitchell lol is more exciting to most Americans and 'casual' boxing fans who want their heavyweights getting hit, coming forward and going for KO's. Caveman style.
The style, attitude, and demeanor of the Klitschko's make them less likely to be massive stars in the US. Wlad and Vitali have too much respect to act in the manor that Floyd Mayweather Jr. or Roy Jones Jr. act, and their fighting styles don't make up for it.
A lot of Americans have short attention spans and it takes constant action for the non-boxing majority to be intrigued, they need lots of bells and whistles and the Klitschko's just don't have those bells and whistles unfortunately.
However, i don't buy the cliches that black fighters are naturally slicker ( which i think is what u are implying) i think it has more to do with training method's. It's funny that slick 'non american' black fighters are much rarer outside of the US! The african fighters are not noted for there slickness really are they? There may be the odd exception but in general...
Pasty little 2X olympic gold medallist and val barker winner Lomachenko is slicker than Jermaine Jacksons mullet! And if Jones was Ukranian most ppl would not have heard of him. I would have to educate them on him like i do with Lomachenko and Saitov...
You should do away with cliches and general ignorance, you would be suprised at what u find!
Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
American boxing fans want someone they can relate to to be champion. The Klitschko's aren't very relateable to the majority of the American boxing public. I like them, I'm American, I don't know why the other people just can't be happy with champions this dominant especially ones who are such good stewards for the sport.
Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
For fuks sake Philosopher:rolleyes:
By your logic if Roy Jones had been, say, Ukranian, fought just the way he did and had the same record, nobody would have given him any respect? Many black athletes in general happen to have a certain fluidity which is very rare amongst whites, especially when you're talking very big men. How popular fighters are has a lot more to do with the way they fight than what colour they are, much as you'd like to believe otherwise.
How many "black ghetto Americans" ever fought anything like Wlad Klitschko to you? Just curious. I'd love to see some examples of this injustice you're on about.
I'm not sure I agree with your statement about fluidity. The "American/Slick" style of boxing can now be found in other continents, and in other races. It's like the spread of hip hop if you will; 20 years ago, there were a handful of quality white rappers; now there are hundreds. Dmitry Pirog, Gregorz Proksa are just two examples of European boxers who fight in an "American" style.
Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
Quote:
Originally Posted by
THE PHILOSOPHER
Oh that old one. Well if that's the case then the lower weight classes in boxing are losing out to european football or 'soccer' as the yanks name it!
So by that logic Wlad can thank his lucky stars that Lebron james prefers not to get his face punched for a living and Mayweather is undefeated because the Lionel messi' of the world prefer spot kicking?
LW 2 time Olympic gold medallist Vasyl Lomachenko is evidence of whats to come in the future in the lower divisions too IMO. Some of the greatest amateurs ever were smaller EE's.
Laszlo Papp
Boris Lagutin
Aleksei Tishchenko (still active)
Oleg Saitov (The greatest amateur boxer of the 90's)
Jerzy Kulej
Vladimir Yengibaryan
Imagine had these guys turned pro? More Tszyu's and Lomachenko's will come trust me! Problem is these guys are not westernised and don't speak english! A lot of them shun americana too. It's more to do with culture rather than the lack of talent in the smaller fighters! K2 are the catalyst.
Your statement in bold might be 100% correct. I don't know the statistics. Do you?
It's a fact that bigger American athletes now more frequently play football and basketball than they do boxing. Think about it. How many colleges offer scholarships for boxing in the United States? I believe 1 and that's Northern Iowa (could be wrong). How about offer scholarships for football or basketball? It makes more sense to get a free education while playing a sport than it does to bypass the education and play the sport. Smaller guys don't have that issue because they can't play the sport anyway. That's a simplistics explanation for why football and basketball have taken athletes away from boxing.
Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
The question of whether Americans would warm to a European dominant heavyweight who fought like Mike Tyson is tough. Mayweather is no ferocious terror in the ring. If it is a styles thing, they haven't warmed to Sergio Martinez and there wasn't a clamoring to see Dmitry Pirog here after he outslicked Danny Jacobs. Therefore, it might be cultural. I'm not sure. There's no easy answer.
Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
The question of whether Americans would warm to a European dominant heavyweight who fought like Mike Tyson is tough. Mayweather is no ferocious terror in the ring. If it is a styles thing, they haven't warmed to Sergio Martinez and there wasn't a clamoring to see Dmitry Pirog here after he outslicked Danny Jacobs. Therefore, it might be cultural. I'm not sure. There's no easy answer.
They can't relate to them man, I'm telling you. It doesn't matter if it's a slick fighter or a pressure fighter or a power puncher they can't relate to someone not American or at least Americanized. Arturo Gatti born in Italy, grew up in Canada, he related with the Americans pretty damn well. Other than immigrants who got their boxing start in the US, I don't think there's any ability to relate...maybe Pacquiao is the best example of a fighter who can hit it big in the US and relate.
Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
The question of whether Americans would warm to a European dominant heavyweight who fought like Mike Tyson is tough. Mayweather is no ferocious terror in the ring. If it is a styles thing, they haven't warmed to Sergio Martinez and there wasn't a clamoring to see Dmitry Pirog here after he outslicked Danny Jacobs. Therefore, it might be cultural. I'm not sure. There's no easy answer.
They can't relate to them man, I'm telling you. It doesn't matter if it's a slick fighter or a pressure fighter or a power puncher they can't relate to someone not American or at least Americanized. Arturo Gatti born in Italy, grew up in Canada, he related with the Americans pretty damn well. Other than immigrants who got their boxing start in the US, I don't think there's any ability to relate...maybe Pacquiao is the best example of a fighter who can hit it big in the US and relate.
Pacquiao might be the best, and only really on point, example. Gatti is another example, but didn't he live in NJ for a period of time? American-Polish fans have definitely stood behind Adamek, but then again, he lives in NJ and is Polish. It's not like Adamek is followed by American fans in Tennessee. I can't think of any other recent non-American fighters that have garnered a strong following in the United States.
Re: Seth Mitchell vs. Johnathan Banks
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Pacquiao might be the best, and only really on point, example. Gatti is another example, but didn't he live in NJ for a period of time? American-Polish fans have definitely stood behind Adamek, but then again, he lives in NJ and is Polish. It's not like Adamek is followed by American fans in Tennessee. I can't think of any other recent non-American fighters that have garnered a strong following in the United States.
Gatti fought his best fights in Atlantic City, he may as well have lived there I bet he never had to buy a drink there.
I can't think of any huge superstars from other countries that got huge receptions in the states but not by people of the same race or ethnicity. Mexican fighters and Puerto Rican fighters get big crowds on ocassion.
