Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
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Originally Posted by
IamInuit
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Originally Posted by
jahmez
The punch wasn't lucky nor was it the result of steroids but I still think he was on the juice. I saw the videos of Marquez dropping a guy in sparring with the same punch and I feel that when him and Nacho sat down and studied how they would have to knock Pacquiao out they probably saw one of the biggest tells in boxing. Pacquiao throws his 1-2 after leaping into range behind a feinted jab to the solar plexus. Thing is he actually throws that punch maybe once a fight. Eventually someone will hear you crying wolf. So as soon as he tried to lie Marquez simply stepped in and let his right hand go. The fact that Juan didn't see the punch land doesn't mean it was lucky but the exact opposite - he knew exactly where Manny's face was going to be and where his money punch wouldn't. I think Roach introduced this "wrinkle" after Morales 1 when he watched Eric simply avoiding that straight left by pivoting to Manny's outside whenever he saw the double jab. Now all that's great strategy and tactics but the fact that an infamous doping specialist was in his camp under a fake name at the exact same time just spoils it for me. A great win nevertheless but in my eyes tainted.
No offense but that logic kind of takes on the shape of a pretzel. He hired Herida as a conditioning coach and promptly got on the weights. He could have went anywhere for a steroid regiment. I mean why hire a past known distributor? Kinda stupid unless he wanted a good strength and conditioning coach regardless of the mans past. If he wanted to go on juice cycles the last guy he would have hired is Herida as far as the public eye is concerned and yet he hired him anyway. So its more then possible that he employed this man for his strength and conditioning knowledge. Again if he wanted to cheat, I don't think he hires this guy.
Its getting to the point nowadays that when anybody wins a highly anticipated fight in dramatic fashion they are labelled cheaters. It does not help when you have nut bar hacks like Kevin Iole suggesting his change was as questionable as Barry Bonds. People just cant accept that Manny is human after all. When little guys like Marquez put on a couple of pounds of pure muscle they tend to look massive in comparison to bigger men where such gains go unnoticed.
Marquez knew about the effectiveness on the right hand in the first fight. Its the punch that saved him. I mean it stands to reason because Manny is a southpaw and there is no better punch against one. It was the punch that made the next two fights as close as they were with many thinking he won at least one of them. So he brings in a strength coach to help him get the most of that punch by building up his overall body strength. I just don't see anything dubious here. They were infatuated by that punch and for good reason. He landed it often in previous fights and it was the money punch.
I mean Marquez fans could say that Manny lost because he was taken off roids because of his health once he left boxing and thereby looked beatable in the fourth fight. Or why he looked flat against Bradley. Or perhaps all fighters at the top are using one thing or another to gain the edge so both Manny and Marquez were juicing making it an even playing field. I choose to believe that Marquez concentrated his entire camp on landing that right hand because of his obsession in beating Manny.
I agree with all of what you say - because we can't know, we speculate. Recall that nobody ever got Barry Bonds to test positive for steroids... there were arguments about the fact that bat speed and all of these other things would not be affected by steroids. Still, he was affiliated with people KNOWN to distribute steroids and that really was the evidence that downed him, along with people saying that they saw him doing it.
Steroids can be manufactured that just help the body recover faster and when you have an older guy (comparitavely older) that starts a weight regimen and is trying to chisel, it is not unheard of that things are used to help him recover so that he can work harder or see a bit better results - he is an elite athlete, so a small percentage of gain is huge for him at that level.
I am not saying he did - I did not think that he did when I saw him or when I saw the punch. He is a counter puncher - one of the best we've got right now - and he landed a counter punch he had been looking for all night and had some success with early. Pac's momentum carried him into the punch. Perfect storm. Steroids or no steriods, that was a night-night punch, so the punch and the KO standing alone should not drive anyone to say that Marquez was using.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
justaguy
Pac's momentum carried him into the punch. Perfect storm. Steroids or no steriods, that was a night-night punch, so the punch and the KO standing alone should not drive anyone to say that Marquez was using.
Exactly. It actually makes my blood boil a bit when people refer to it as a lucky because the assertion if you actually follow the sport is so fundamentally ridiculous. I mean seriously connect the dots. What I have to start doing is questioning my own sanity for continuing to point that out. Its like in order for that to happen to Manny there had to be something up. There is no fighting that kind of worship.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
justaguy
Pac's momentum carried him into the punch. Perfect storm. Steroids or no steriods, that was a night-night punch, so the punch and the KO standing alone should not drive anyone to say that Marquez was using.
Exactly. It actually makes my blood boil a bit when people refer to it as a lucky because the assertion if you actually follow the sport is so fundamentally ridiculous. I mean seriously connect the dots. What I have to start doing is questioning my own sanity for continuing to point that out. Its like in order for that to happen to Manny there had to be something up. There is no fighting that kind of worship.
everyone seems to forget the first knockdown, it was scary power, that marquez NEVER carried
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jahmez
Before you quote this time maybe actually read the post?
I assume that I am 'the other guy' - so let me clarify. I didn't reference anything that you said... I replied to iaminuit's thread - your quote was imbedded in his and I didn't take the time to take it out. Before you take things personally, try to generalize?:cool:
Really and truly, I was also replying to the ALL of the thread. Most of your post, I agree with. And this time, I am only quoting your response, so this IS directed to what you say, complete with my assumption that I am referenced in this one and the post above it.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boxer4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
justaguy
Pac's momentum carried him into the punch. Perfect storm. Steroids or no steriods, that was a night-night punch, so the punch and the KO standing alone should not drive anyone to say that Marquez was using.
Exactly. It actually makes my blood boil a bit when people refer to it as a lucky because the assertion if you actually follow the sport is so fundamentally ridiculous. I mean seriously connect the dots. What I have to start doing is questioning my own sanity for continuing to point that out. Its like in order for that to happen to Manny there had to be something up. There is no fighting that kind of worship.
everyone seems to forget the first knockdown, it was scary power, that marquez NEVER carried
I didn't forget it... I actually referenced it. I also noticed that Marquez was more flat-footed early in the fight and appeared to me to be really cranking some of his punches in a different way than I had seen him in the past. The first knockdown was more surprising in terms of how it was done than the KO blow, though - I will give you that.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Boxer4life
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
justaguy
Pac's momentum carried him into the punch. Perfect storm. Steroids or no steriods, that was a night-night punch, so the punch and the KO standing alone should not drive anyone to say that Marquez was using.
Exactly. It actually makes my blood boil a bit when people refer to it as a lucky because the assertion if you actually follow the sport is so fundamentally ridiculous. I mean seriously connect the dots. What I have to start doing is questioning my own sanity for continuing to point that out. Its like in order for that to happen to Manny there had to be something up. There is no fighting that kind of worship.
everyone seems to forget the first knockdown, it was scary power, that marquez NEVER carried
Good point. If that kd never happened I would consider the k.o punch to be a perfect almost lucky punch. Seeing that first kd though( which is the same straight right he has landed on pac numerous times) made me think JMM carried more punching power which I don't think can't be taught by even the greatest of trainers and coincidentally their is angel hernandez in his corner or whatever he calls himself now....
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Of course not, don't be silly..
He is Juan Manuel Marquez, 4 time undisputed Pacquiao slayer.... It is traipsing by on sacrilegious territory to infer that God's gift to boxing has it in him a shred of wrongdoing ---even if it is in the name of supreme competition and in winning.
It was just one of those moment of perfection..."perfectly" blessed that night... Despite hitting the Filipino solidly only twice in that fight, yet, instantly flooring him on both occasions just like a nobody, or better yet, just like a sack of rice.
Three previous fights proved different but only because, they were nights but of only the "blessed" variety. These fights registered solid hits from Marquez on Pacquiao, nailing the alleged PED user several times over, but it never yielded even a close enough result to decking him.
Until his date with "sanctity", which had purified his thoughts into allowing him as to be guided to find the right path in connecting with the right personnel, all in tune for the important adjustments, the formula, for the perfect night of "blessedness". In the person of one of the sport's leading nutritionists, Mr Heredia, the instrumental figure in identifying that refraining from Marquez' routine of "oral urine intake"' was the key to all of this needed improvement-- it was the final tweak that produced the perfect night of "blessedness" for supreme power in order to successfully deliver to him the final goods.
They were right! Perfect!
The "minor" adjustment was the "major" separation needed.... for it reduced Pacquiao from an eight-time world champion into a pedestrian, glass-jawed, and punch drunk mediocre fighter that he truly was. Pacquiao got exposed!
Add to this night of blessedness was a newfound unique ability to harness maximum power from within, that even in the most difficult and extreme defensive situation, he was still able to deliver massive knockout power!
Insiders to the sport were suggesting that the training Juan Manuel have undergone was so well-run that he was able to add cranking power as a result that could knockout anyone to even an unsuspecting "heavyweight"! Imagine that!
Mostly, boxers in on a serious battering, as Marquez was in prior to "the punch", can still draw power from within, but mostly much of its potential energy is already diffused, dulled somewhat to therefore be diminished of power sapped from the beatings received.
Having a perfect night of blessedness relieves one of all "human" frailties!
So there..
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
the only thing that is shocking is for the past 3 fights they had, jmm was never close to knocking pac down even when he lands squarely on Pac. then all of a sudden in their 4th fight he could suddenly hurt and even knock Pac out.
Yeah its funny how empirical works. That observation, experience and repeatability is a killer.
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pavlik
the only thing that is shocking is for the past 3 fights they had, jmm was never close to knocking pac down even when he lands squarely on Pac. then all of a sudden in their 4th fight he could suddenly hurt and even knock Pac out.
You don't think that after being robbed ATLEAST twice that maybe JMM changed his tactics and decided to commit to a knockout instead of being robbed on points again?
Re: Did Marquez take Steroids for the Last Pacquiao Fight?
Marquez said they were working on power... they said they were setting down on their punches... together with Marquez being known as a stand up guy and more so, his trainer know as an all time great and a living legend in training... NO... Marquez beat many fair and square... Manny was winning the fight and was VERY RECKLESs... he deserved it.
