Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
I don't rank him in top ten but he is obviously a very skilled guy. Much more than Vitali I believe but I'd much rather watch Vitali fight. Vitalis nerve is a step above. Latley I get the feel if you've seen one Wlad match you've seen them all and while he cannot be faulted for this generation or uncertain talent pool I think he is guilty of 'running up the numbers' in a few recently. I put little stock in quantity over quality or numbers for the sake of numbers.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
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Originally Posted by
Spicoli
I don't rank him in top ten but he is obviously a very skilled guy. Much more than Vitali I believe but I'd much rather watch Vitali fight. Vitalis nerve is a step above. Latley I get the feel if you've seen one Wlad match you've seen them all and while he cannot be faulted for this generation or uncertain talent pool I think he is guilty of 'running up the numbers' in a few recently. I put little stock in quantity over quality or numbers for the sake of numbers.
So true. The how its won is much bigger then the win specifically here.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
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Originally Posted by
ross
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Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
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Originally Posted by
ross
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Originally Posted by
DavilaJones
Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?
What has Wlad acomplished?
Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.
Wlad and Vitali have said they will never fight , so how can he be undisputed champ while they are both active ?
Vitali gives up his belt or retires, fucking simple!
They wont. If one loses the other still has a grip for their promotions.
Both are active so for the past many years he cant be undisputed champ , as for "simple" Vitali should retire ? Im sure Vitali will choose to retire when he feels he wants to , what that has got to do with Wlad's career I have no idea.
Vitali may be Wlad's brother but he makes his own choices im sure.
So your comment " fucking simple " is not simple is it ross ?
Now NVSemin he is simple.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
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Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
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Originally Posted by
ross
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Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
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Originally Posted by
ross
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Originally Posted by
DavilaJones
Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?
What has Wlad acomplished?
Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.
Wlad and Vitali have said they will never fight , so how can he be undisputed champ while they are both active ?
Vitali gives up his belt or retires, fucking simple!
They wont. If one loses the other still has a grip for their promotions.
Both are active so for the past many years he cant be undisputed champ , as for "simple" Vitali should retire ? Im sure Vitali will choose to retire when he feels he wants to , what that has got to do with Wlad's career I have no idea.
Vitali may be Wlad's brother but he makes his own choices im sure.
So your comment " fucking simple " is not simple is it ross ?
Now NVSemin he is simple.
If Vitali doesnt retire, there is always someone around who would beat Wlad. If they dont ever fight, Wlad can never be remembered as the best of this era.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
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Originally Posted by
ross
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Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
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Originally Posted by
ross
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Originally Posted by
Dark Lord Al
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Originally Posted by
ross
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Originally Posted by
DavilaJones
Asides the fact that styles make fights? Well you cannot undo accomplishments with defeats. Is Roy Jones any less HOFer and a great SMW because he lost to Allen Green?
What has Wlad acomplished?
Hes not ever been the undisputed champ and he's not even a better fighter than Corrie Sanders and his brother would have beaten him up.
Wlad and Vitali have said they will never fight , so how can he be undisputed champ while they are both active ?
Vitali gives up his belt or retires, fucking simple!
They wont. If one loses the other still has a grip for their promotions.
Both are active so for the past many years he cant be undisputed champ , as for "simple" Vitali should retire ? Im sure Vitali will choose to retire when he feels he wants to , what that has got to do with Wlad's career I have no idea.
Vitali may be Wlad's brother but he makes his own choices im sure.
So your comment " fucking simple " is not simple is it ross ?
Now NVSemin he is simple.
If Vitali doesnt retire, there is always someone around who would beat Wlad. If they dont ever fight, Wlad can never be remembered as the best of this era.
I don't disagree with that at all. but its silly to say " simple " Vitali retires like its Wlad's choice.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
So you rank Vitali higher than Wlad?
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
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Originally Posted by
ross
So you rank Vitali higher than Wlad?
That is a difficult question, as they have never fought , however do I think Vitali would beat Wlad prime for prime , who has the better legacy well that is up for debate.
Wlad is a bit like my favourite boxer Tommy Hearns , he can dominate certain fighters with ease , however some fighters styles are just a nightmare for them , and they lose brutally.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
i do agree that vitali being around hurts wlads legacy. i too agree that vitali beat wlad.
i do want to hear peoples reasoning for wlad being in the top 10 though because i literally cant think of a reason, even if i were giving him the benefit of the doubt, that he would be top 10. maybe people just arent familiar with the history of HW boxing. and thats not meant to be an insult, its just an observation.
and i totally disagree that wlad would give any HW a good fight. i could name a lot of HWs that i think would easily dismantle him. i think he hits hard obviously and has good basic fundamentals, but to be a top fighter, you have to be able to handle diversity well which wlad hasnt been able to do in his career. he folds under pressure.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
I could squeeze Wlad in at 11-15.
It's all the more impressive because he has a weak chin, but has developed ways to not get hit a lot.
But I don't see him top ten.
A young George Foreman walks through him, same with Tyson, I don't see him lasting a round with those 2.
But you can make a argument for him against people like Fraizer, Marciano, Dempsey, due to his size advantages.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
people tell me there is rule bending throught the history of the HW division and the champ often gets away with a lot which i can understand
wlad does an outragious amount of rule bending that multiplies lots and lots when he is in with someone dangerous
there is clearly money driven corruption going on, for this reason i find it hard to place him
i personally dont think he would still be champ if made to fight anywhere near within the rules
he was clearly a high level contender in that generation of when he became champ (prior to the excessive rule bending obviously) tho
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
Being the "Klitschkos" instead of individuals greatly hurts their position in history. Unless you allow them to be boxings first ever tag-team?
Since 2008, when Vitali came back from retirement, the brothers have been rated as the top two at heavyweight. During this time they've had 20 fights between them with just ONE common opponent. 19 different challengers.
How can you establish a pecking order of the worlds best heavyweights if the top two are facing completely different opposition?
It's farcical enough that you can crown a champion without him beating his most strongest rival, let alone having virtually no formlines to compare, because they might as well be operating in different divisions.
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
There are always questions that arise when considering greatness. Are we pitting greats vs greats or are we looking solely at records and what has been accomplished during their eras or are we doing a mix of the two. Also one HAS to consider the fact that there used to only be 1 belt and now there's a billion of them and it makes it difficult to compare and contrast title holders because you don't fight the exact same competition if you have the WBC belt or IBF belt or WBA belt. To his credit Wladimir did make the WBO a LEGITIMATE heavyweight title based on his performances as it's champion.
This is why Joe Louis is ALWAYS my A#1 Greatest Heavyweight Champion of All-Time. He fought anyone and everyone, he fought quality AND quantity, and he had the longest run as Champion AND he had years of his prime taken away due to World War II (which nobody ever mentions the way they mention Ali's layoff).
Now looking at Wladimir, he's a flawed heavyweight. He has had losses, but everyone (bar Marciano) on the list of Greats has suffered losses. Some shocking like Lewis-Rahman I, some understandable Ali-Frazier I or Tyson-Holyfield, and some were just bad calls Lewis-Holyfield I & II. Wlad's defeats were shocking, but all the more shocking is his ability to reinvent himself as a fighter, paper over the cracks in his game and become the dominant champion AFTER such shocking defeats...I mean the only other guys to get smacked down like Wlad did and bounce back to become even more dominant are Joe Louis (Schmeling I) and Lennox Lewis (Oliver McCall I). Wlad has had a reign as champion longer than everyone but Joe Louis, he's now been in more title fights than Muhammad Ali, he's defended his titles 14 or so times, he has held the IBF, WBO and IBO Heavyweight Championships longer than any other fighter in history, and he has defended those titles more than any other fighter.
He is an all-time great based on his accomplishments during his era, to deny it is to deny history. He can only fight who is in his era, and he has been willing to fight them all. Is Wlad "The Greatest", no and I don't think anyone is making that case, but he IS an All-Time great, there's very little to argue about when considering that just given the stats he has. He fights all the time, he defends his titles, he's undefeated in rematches, he wins by KO/TKO more often than not, what more do you want? Maybe he could fight in a more exciting manner, but shit if you're winning why change something that is working? Nobody asks Hopkins or Mayweather Jr to change their styles.
I'd put Wlad in the top 10
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
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Originally Posted by
El Kabong
There are always questions that arise when considering greatness. Are we pitting greats vs greats or are we looking solely at records and what has been accomplished during their eras or are we doing a mix of the two. Also one HAS to consider the fact that there used to only be 1 belt and now there's a billion of them and it makes it difficult to compare and contrast title holders because you don't fight the exact same competition if you have the WBC belt or IBF belt or WBA belt. To his credit Wladimir did make the WBO a LEGITIMATE heavyweight title based on his performances as it's champion.
This is why Joe Louis is ALWAYS my A#1 Greatest Heavyweight Champion of All-Time. He fought anyone and everyone, he fought quality AND quantity, and he had the longest run as Champion AND he had years of his prime taken away due to World War II (which nobody ever mentions the way they mention Ali's layoff).
Now looking at Wladimir, he's a flawed heavyweight. He has had losses, but everyone (bar Marciano) on the list of Greats has suffered losses. Some shocking like Lewis-Rahman I, some understandable Ali-Frazier I or Tyson-Holyfield, and some were just bad calls Lewis-Holyfield I & II. Wlad's defeats were shocking, but all the more shocking is his ability to reinvent himself as a wrestler, paper over the cracks in his game and become the dominant champion AFTER such shocking defeats...I mean the only other guys to get smacked down like Wlad did and bounce back to become even more dominant are Joe Louis (Schmeling I) and Lennox Lewis (Oliver McCall I). Wlad has had a reign as champion longer than everyone but Joe Louis, he's now been in more title fights than Muhammad Ali, he's defended his titles 14 or so times, he has held the IBF, WBO and IBO Heavyweight Championships longer than any other fighter in history, and he has defended those titles more than any other fighter.
He is an all-time great based on his accomplishments during his era, to deny it is to deny history. He can only fight who is in his era, and he has been willing to fight them all. Is Wlad "The Greatest", no and I don't think anyone is making that case, but he IS an All-Time great, there's very little to argue about when considering that just given the stats he has. He fights all the time, he defends his titles, he's undefeated in rematches, he wins by KO/TKO more often than not, what more do you want? Maybe he could fight in a more exciting manner, but shit if you're winning why change something that is working? Nobody asks Hopkins or Mayweather Jr to change their styles.
I'd put Wlad in the top 10
just one littel ammendment, other than that well done
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
Are we talking about Head to Head or accomplishments?
Re: Where do you rank Wladimir Klitschko among the all-time great heavyweights?
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Originally Posted by
Rantcatrat
Are we talking about Head to Head or accomplishments?
Either way he's up there. Can't argue with how good he is. If he was as shit as people like erics44 say he is then he would have been beaten a long time ago and never returned to prominence
