Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Holmes proved at the time a 6'5 boxer which was massive, could be whooped....
Sanders was a power punching southpaw....
The fact that he was a southpaw- powerpuncher means what? Every fighter has something to bring to the table--and a ATG neutralizes it.. Maybe your definition of an ATG is different than mines NP.
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Sorry, but that is BS. If you need proof go watch Ali/Spinks II again.
You bypassed the whole conversation to an example in the last paragraph? That is B.S.
Take my conversation out of context...and I will put it back in context.
Kabong & I disagreeing on Cooney's ability to fight Holmes-as a measurement to small guys who have beatan the BIG guy, yet in agreement that he was a hard puncher. Looking at his competition & determining if he had fought the best opposition to prepare him for Holmes.
WHat you're doing is like telling someone a movie aint good because you took issue with the last 5 minutes...in this case, my last paragraph. Thats a looongg way to go to find fault, dude.
That fight was a complete shitshow.
So.
What does one fight have to do with the topic? You took an example- at the ass-end of the discussion and want me to debate the legitmacy of a single fight that has what to deal with Holmes assertion that Wlad hasn't had a defining fight?
I counted the clinches initiated by Ali years ago because I was so disgusted by that fight.
Once again this is a thread about Holmes and look at how far you go to make a point. So, I will go there with you. I have no problems asserting that a post-Ali clinched-over the top. I also have no problem knowing you are talking post 1970's lay on the rope like a dope Ali. MY many threads here show that I count 1960-1967 Clay/Ali as a totally different fighter than post 1970's Ali.
Only counting clinches where the ref was forced to break. And only counting where no legal punches were thrown. I say legal because Ali threw as many rabbit punches in his fights as any fighter in history. If I remember correctly it averaged 16 clinches initiated by Ali that the ref was forced to separate per round. Do you realize how much clinching that is?
Not really. Because the amount of clinching in that one fight has never cause me to remember it.
Far too many fights where clinches are initiated for me to single one out & inject it into this thread, but ..be my guest U have the honors to that one.
That is jab, right, hold until the ref separates. Jab, right, hold until the ref separates, repeat until the fight is over. Only varying to throw the occasional illegal punch.
I like Ali a hell of a lot more than Wladimir. But the absurd double standards this guy faces force me to speak up for him.
Well, speak up to those who disrepect Wlad's skills. I don't.
So you are way off point addressing that to me, when I have Wlad as a great HW. Just because I dont see the shit eye to eye with you or Kabong, doesnt mean I give doublestandards.
I got one damn critique for him..and I cant have ONE? :confused: I got issues with virtually every fighter alive, because no one has been perfect & done it perfect each fight. You don't like me saying he hasnt had a defining fight..and giving my reason why, it's ok- just get over it.
Wladimir has fought top guy after top guy for over a decade.
WHen did I say he hasnt? I clearly wrote he has beatan every style, then I said inside and outside fighters.
Just give the man his props. Don't qualify his props. Don't throw backhanded compliments out there only so you can get a dig in after.
Utter-nutter-bullsshevik. I broke down how he got his ass whooped by 2 guy and I broke down how he has solidified himself since then..so you are quoting yourself..Not me.
Dont tell me to give props to a man I give props to.
I dont ride their nutsack till I can't find something wrong even in the ones I call ATG... . But let the record speak- You took a last paragraph to claim I dont give him his props. Yet I havent been quoted.
The dude has some flaws, guess what, so did the greatest.
I know he does. I pointed them out. Thats a part of a great fighter, they refine themselves.
It can be argued Ali never beat Norton.
Again, not relative to what I mentioned
And he lost to Frazier, and Spinks, and he struggled against some pretty crappy fighters. And... It doesn't matter! We don't throw it out there constantly because it doesn't matter. He's the greatest because of what he did. That's what matters, what you do.
You're preaching to the choir.
And Wladimir has made his adjustments and ruled for over a decade, that's what Wladimir did!
You are on a roll Ron-Money...Reading your post it sounds like I called Wlad a no-skilled talentless bum who never made any adjustments to be what I called him..HERE...A great of his era.
Is he the most exciting, no.
Serious Ron, I may be wrong here, but I am guessing I have never been one on this site to say his style his boring. I can search me, or U can. But you have to back this stuff up-not make it up. I find beauty in the way that big man dominates his foes. I just dont think he has had a foe with heart since a 1/2 skilled- 12 loss Puritty or Sanders. 9 outta 10 I end it with IMO...So IMO those (2) guys fought like dogs from hell. --he woulda loss no matter--shit happens, fighters lose even great ones. I don't mention his loss to Brewster...Notice that? Or ignoring it?
Reason is because that fight was a fluke IMO. Brewster got lucky...shit happens, but with Sanders & Puritty fight one..that was WILL power, something no one speaks of on this site, but me. SInce then, Wlad beats the confidence outta everyone else-to his credit..
But he's an amazing physical specimen with shocking speed for his size, ridiculous power, amazing coordination, he's smart and he has heart.
You think he's had a defining fight to show his heart, cool, I don't.
His heart has been demonstrated repeatedly. I can show multiple occasions where the badass Mike Tyson decided he didn't want any more.
Master gets on my case for bringin up Tyson never stood up to those who didn't get bullied, once again you're preaching to the choir.
There are no examples where Wladimir chose to stay down.
Did I say that he did? Please dont say implied, quote it or let it be.
Boxing fans seem to have warped opinions about everything.
Does that include you, or are you better than us...boxing fans?:rolleyes:
If you talk like a badass you are a badass, no. I can name 20 "badasses" off the top of my head that chose to stay down.
I can too.
And I can name 20 "soft" fighters that never in their careers chose to stay down. I can name many many guys with "legendary beards" who were KOed and many guys with "questionable beards" who were never KOed. There is so much opinion in these damn talks, sometimes you just have to say
I think Ron my man....thats the purpose of these boards. To discuss, debate and uh,oh Disagree?:o
That guy made a style that has ruled the sport for over a decade, he's a f'n badass.(I say sometimes very loosely because in all of history it's only happened twice, those guys must be a couple badasses)
