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The stiffness came in rounds 3 and 4, round 1 and 2 Joshua was all over him like a rash and thought it was a forgone conclusion. He was every bit as lackadaisical as Fury was against Cunningham or the Latvian plasterer. The differences being that Whyte is probably better than both of them (yes on the whole Cunningham is more accomplished) and Joshua never hit the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by ross
Do yourself a favour and watch the no commentary edit of the fight. It might enlighten you.
If they can get Martin for the right kind of money they should rip his arm off to make it.
Take away the belt and Martin V Joshua is a decent match up of undefeated prospects that we'd all be fine with and judging by the footage of Martin, we'd all (the ones of us who aren't crippled by obligation) be picking AJ to bash him up.
Stick a paper title around Martins waist and all of a sudden he's too much for Joshua too soon and it's a massive risk?
Everyone is rolling out the old cliche, once you take that step you cant go back. It's just not true. As Fenster mentioned, take anyone in that IBF top ten and Joshua should be lining them up for an almighty chinning. Why not do it in a 'World' title defence.
Even going by independent rankings (The Ring) guys like Jennings and Stiverne are rated higher than Martin. These are the guys he'll have to be fighting anyway, as realistically there's only a handful of heavyweights that he probably needs more experience before facing.
Martin is 9/2
AJ is 1/8
Prospect rated a virtual cert by the bookies.
Bookies over here are a great crack aren't they? Ridiculous odds for a challenger who, although we love him and he has great potential, he's only ever fought at British Level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
martins fought no one thoQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraBookies over here are a great crack aren't they? Ridiculous odds for a challenger who, although we love him and he has great potential, he's only ever fought at British Level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
even no oner than AJ by miles
it was only 2 fights ago he fought tom dallas
and his biggest win was by injury
Yeah it's a bizarre situation where AJ has stronger form on paper than Martin.
Look at their common opponent - Raphael Zumbano Love. They both fought him last year. He lasted 4 minutes with AJ, never landed a glove and ended up flat on his back. He took Martin 10 rounds.
Take that strap off Martin he'd be double his current price.
Mate, I'm not saying AJ won't win, and I'm not saying he shouldn't be favourite, but 1/8 is a complete rip off. We can't criticise his record too much, he's 23-0 and we don't know That these American guys on his record are any better or worse than the guys AJ has bowled over.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44martins fought no one thoQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraBookies over here are a great crack aren't they? Ridiculous odds for a challenger who, although we love him and he has great potential, he's only ever fought at British Level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
even no oner than AJ by miles
it was only 2 fights ago he fought tom dallas
and his biggest win was by injury
But the main reason I think the odds are too short, is that this guy is clearly decent, and he is a Southpaw. It's a different type of opponent for AJ to come to terms with , so I'm not sure it's a walkover like 1/8 would suggest.
We do know the level of those American guys, that's the American club circuit, hillbillies with gloves. You won't find a single fighter on his record - barring Glazkov - that has fought at any level that could be considered British class at best.
Now I'm fully aware it's not murderers row but - Kingpin, Sprott, Skelton, Bakhtov and Airich have all mixed in top World/Euro class. Whyte would be a strong favourite against anyone on Martin's record.
Would you back AJ at 1/8 ?
1/8 shots are not my kind of bet, that doesn't mean he's not a rightful big odds-on favourite though.
If you think the odds are way out then you have a decent price for Martin. :)
No. like I said, I reckon AJ would beat him, so I wouldn't back against him, Unless Martin was something appealing like 25/1 for a bit of fun. I reckon AJ should be 1/2 or 1/3 at best. I don't reckon that Fury would or should be 1/8 vs Martin.
Martin is so unknown that those odds seem ridiculous.
The common opponent doesnt mean a great deal if you consider styles make fights.
Of all the various nationalities and tired old jouneymen Joshua had faced it took a relatively inexperienced british level fighter to push him.
No one really knows what level Martin is. He certainly wasn't out of his depth against Glazkov even before the injury. Glazkov isnt terrible.
Martin has more promise than Wilder I think. Especially if afforded the same luxury of hand picking 3 defences to learn on the job.
AJ has not gone the distance yet and still needs more experience. Just because Wilder did it does not mean AJ should follow the same silly path.
We do have an idea of how good Martin is - there's a few fights of him on youtube duffing up fat belly's in school gyms and he took 10 rounds to make a 4 minute AJ victim quit.
He fights with his head hanging in the air, looks like an arm puncher, regardless of his impressive chinning stats, and is less tested in the beard department than AJ.
Can Martin improve/be better than he looks? Yes. Can he cause the upset? Yes. Is it an excellent matchup? Yes. Should AJ be a strong favourite on paper? Yes.
Fury is not a big puncher, naturally you'd give Martin more chance of beating him considering the sparkage is less likely.
Cant believe you are seriously using that comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
How long did it take Ali to get rid of Patterson compared to Liston who Ali knocked out in a round?
How long did it take Mike Tyson to get rid of James Tillis?
You know how it works, there would be hundreds of examples like this. Martin is a more cautious boxer. He can punch and is a southpaw so there is risk.
He does have a better win with Glazkov than anyone Joshua has faced regarldess of how the fight ended Martin was in control.