Floyd Mayweather- Really was a great champion and fighter!

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

I supplied facts and you supplied opinion not addressing those facts. So let me explain it again

Hatton turned down contracts and made no counter offers. You started this saying it wasn't Hatton that was delaying it. I supplied a piece where Hatton says out of his own mouth that they weren't looking to fight Floyd. Facts. I alreafy proved you wrong.

As for Margarito you skip over the main factors. If Floydwa nted out of his contractt he couldn't wait, there was a timetable to the buyout option. And if Floyd did sign to fight Margarito the contract included an extension that would only get him 7 million for Cotto or 7 million for Hatton and no DLH fight. That's about 100 million in losses. It was a shit f'n contract. Try and debate that fact. Try!

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Thank you Ron for working so hard to prove my point for me in your very own argument :appl:



You mean somebody can turn down a contract because the contract is bad?!?!?!?! I mean WOW, what a surprise.....but Hatton didn't do that he turned down the contract because why again?



Hey did Floyd counter offer contracts for that extension????



HAHAHA

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I'm really sorry to get in the middle of your's and Ron's little discussion, but I don't really understand what the argument is here. I'm guessing that you're saying that Hatton and Mayweather didn't fight when it would've suited Hatton best AND at the weight that suited Hatton best? Because Financially I don't think it is at all possible that Hatton could've got a better deal.
He was fighting the no.1 p4p in Vegas and Hatton got ALL THE PPV in the UK. Floyd made a little error because he couldn't have possibly understood just how much support Hatton could generate.
So if it's down to timing and weight , I have to say that Mayweather would've beaten ANY HATTON AT ANY TIME AND AT ANY WEIGHT.
Surely that's all that counts isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

I'm really sorry to get in the middle of your's and Ron's little discussion, but I don't really understand what the argument is here. I'm guessing that you're saying that Hatton and Mayweather didn't fight when it would've suited Hatton best AND at the weight that suited Hatton best? Because Financially I don't think it is at all possible that Hatton could've got a better deal.
He was fighting the no.1 p4p in Vegas and Hatton got ALL THE PPV in the UK. Floyd made a little error because he couldn't have possibly understood just how much support Hatton could generate.
So if it's down to timing and weight , I have to say that Mayweather would've beaten ANY HATTON AT ANY TIME AND AT ANY WEIGHT.
Surely that's all that counts isn't it?

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No worries, come right in to the debate there's plenty of room!



Hatton is just 1 example of Floyd using his gravitas to pick and choose where, when, why, and for how much he'd fight an opponent. Other fighters have of course done that, and that's fine, but typically if you're going to say "I'm the best, I'm the greatest!" there are going to be some fights where you fight opponents in their primes, at their best weight, and sometimes even in their backyard....never really the case with Floyd.


My stance is, Floyd was indeed a great fighter, just not the greatest. He can say he's the greatest and I ain't stopping him from saying it, but I can say "the sky is purple" and saying it doesn't make it so.

There are guys Floyd didn't fight, big name guys, big time fighters, fighters who were seemingly unbeatable at the time and Floyd din't fight them....if he was so concerned with being "The Greatest" then those fights would have been made, they weren't not even close.


Ricky Hatton at 140, he's a beast. Ricky Hatton at 147...IMO he lost to Luis Collazo so a Floyd win over Hatton at 147, meh, that's ok I guess....that same result vs Hatton at 140 is a GREAT win.

Miguel Cotto POST Antonio Margarito....good win, decent win.....Miguel Cotto PRE Margarito, GIGANTIC win, SENSATIONAL win! It was a very close fight with a fighter most folks thought was shot/damaged goods.

Margarito, Williams, never even considered by Floyd.



Great fighter, not the greatest.....other greats sought out guys who would test them.....CARLOS BALDOMIR?!?!?!


People like to do the hypothetical fight matchups and say "What if Ray Leonard fought ____?" and that I can picture, that I can imagine, a Prime Ray vs a Prime whoever else.....put Floyd in there and automatically I think, well what would be the weight class/catch weight, how long would Floyd wait to fight the guy, who would the guy have to lose to in order for Floyd to consider fighting him?


Money Mayweather? More like Floyd 'Caveat' Mayweather...that's how I see him....more power to the guy, but as a boxing fan I didn't like how he did business.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

I'm really sorry to get in the middle of your's and Ron's little discussion, but I don't really understand what the argument is here. I'm guessing that you're saying that Hatton and Mayweather didn't fight when it would've suited Hatton best AND at the weight that suited Hatton best? Because Financially I don't think it is at all possible that Hatton could've got a better deal.
He was fighting the no.1 p4p in Vegas and Hatton got ALL THE PPV in the UK. Floyd made a little error because he couldn't have possibly understood just how much support Hatton could generate.
So if it's down to timing and weight , I have to say that Mayweather would've beaten ANY HATTON AT ANY TIME AND AT ANY WEIGHT.
Surely that's all that counts isn't it?

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No worries, come right in to the debate there's plenty of room!



Hatton is just 1 example of Floyd using his gravitas to pick and choose where, when, why, and for how much he'd fight an opponent. Other fighters have of course done that, and that's fine, but typically if you're going to say "I'm the best, I'm the greatest!" there are going to be some fights where you fight opponents in their primes, at their best weight, and sometimes even in their backyard....never really the case with Floyd.


My stance is, Floyd was indeed a great fighter, just not the greatest. He can say he's the greatest and I ain't stopping him from saying it, but I can say "the sky is purple" and saying it doesn't make it so.

There are guys Floyd didn't fight, big name guys, big time fighters, fighters who were seemingly unbeatable at the time and Floyd din't fight them....if he was so concerned with being "The Greatest" then those fights would have been made, they weren't not even close.


Ricky Hatton at 140, he's a beast. Ricky Hatton at 147...IMO he lost to Luis Collazo so a Floyd win over Hatton at 147, meh, that's ok I guess....that same result vs Hatton at 140 is a GREAT win.

Miguel Cotto POST Antonio Margarito....good win, decent win.....Miguel Cotto PRE Margarito, GIGANTIC win, SENSATIONAL win! It was a very close fight with a fighter most folks thought was shot/damaged goods.

Margarito, Williams, never even considered by Floyd.



Great fighter, not the greatest.....other greats sought out guys who would test them.....CARLOS BALDOMIR?!?!?!


People like to do the hypothetical fight matchups and say "What if Ray Leonard fought ____?" and that I can picture, that I can imagine, a Prime Ray vs a Prime whoever else.....put Floyd in there and automatically I think, well what would be the weight class/catch weight, how long would Floyd wait to fight the guy, who would the guy have to lose to in order for Floyd to consider fighting him?


Money Mayweather? More like Floyd 'Caveat' Mayweather...that's how I see him....more power to the guy, but as a boxing fan I didn't like how he did business.

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Now the thing is you're saying he's not the greatest. Well I agree, and I think 99% of people on here would also agree. But the title of the thread was that he was a great fighter and a great champion, and I think it's pretty indisputable that he was.
Now you can dilute that with talk of avoiding people in their primes and contractual tittle tattle, but it doesn't take away the fact that he was great. Don't get me wrong, it's ok to think he's a prick, and it's ok to dislike him, but when giving an opinion on the quality of a boxer, that has to have no bearing on it.
And the thing about him calling the shots, well you have to earn the right to do that. He took a risk buying himself out of a contract when he was young because he backed his talent.
When he fought Oscar, everything was stacked Oscar's way and on his terms, then Floyd beat him and he becomes the "A Side".

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

Now the thing is you're saying he's not the greatest. Well I agree, and I think 99% of people on here would also agree. But the title of the thread was that he was a great fighter and a great champion, and I think it's pretty indisputable that he was.
Now you can dilute that with talk of avoiding people in their primes and contractual tittle tattle, but it doesn't take away the fact that he was great. Don't get me wrong, it's ok to think he's a prick, and it's ok to dislike him, but when giving an opinion on the quality of a boxer, that has to have no bearing on it.
And the thing about him calling the shots, well you have to earn the right to do that. He took a risk buying himself out of a contract when he was young because he backed his talent.
When he fought Oscar, everything was stacked Oscar's way and on his terms, then Floyd beat him and he becomes the "A Side".

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Then we have 0 disagreement. I've said Floyd is great many many times, my first post on this thread was:

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

He could have had a better resume.....but hey he beat everyone he fought I just don't think he tested himself as much as he could have because of the 0.

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And people took offense to that suggestion.

Floyd ducked all his toughest bouts until they were past their primes. All this best wins - Pac, DLH, Mosley, etc - he fought them when they were well beyond their best years.

I'm surprised he never tried to set up a fight with Muhammad Ali. That coward would have dumped Ali out of his wheel chair and claimed it made him the greatest of all time.

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Originally Posted by vidgil

Floyd ducked all his toughest bouts until they were past their primes. All this best wins - Pac, DLH, Mosley, etc - he fought them when they were well beyond their best years.

I'm surprised he never tried to set up a fight with Muhammad Ali. That coward would have dumped Ali out of his wheel chair and claimed it made him the greatest of all time.

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Yep, Pac is 2 years younger than Floyd , we know that don't we?
If Floyd had fought Pac 6 years earlier , he would've beat him easier!
And talk about Floyd picking them out of their prime, what about Pac? Oscar was slimmer of the month !

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by vidgil

Floyd ducked all his toughest bouts until they were past their primes. All this best wins - Pac, DLH, Mosley, etc - he fought them when they were well beyond their best years.

I'm surprised he never tried to set up a fight with Muhammad Ali. That coward would have dumped Ali out of his wheel chair and claimed it made him the greatest of all time.

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Yep, Pac is 2 years younger than Floyd , we know that don't we?
If Floyd had fought Pac 6 years earlier , he would've beat him easier!
And talk about Floyd picking them out of their prime, what about Pac? Oscar was slimmer of the month !

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Oscar chose to fight at the welterweight limit

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by vidgil

Floyd ducked all his toughest bouts until they were past their primes. All this best wins - Pac, DLH, Mosley, etc - he fought them when they were well beyond their best years.

I'm surprised he never tried to set up a fight with Muhammad Ali. That coward would have dumped Ali out of his wheel chair and claimed it made him the greatest of all time.

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Yep, Pac is 2 years younger than Floyd , we know that don't we?
If Floyd had fought Pac 6 years earlier , he would've beat him easier!
And talk about Floyd picking them out of their prime, what about Pac? Oscar was slimmer of the month !

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Yeah but as we know all fighters age differently, hit their primes and wash up at different times.

Floyd to his credit aged wonderfully and was able to compete at a fantastic level in his late 30s.

Pac was clearly passed his prime after the last two JMM fights. He just wasn't the same fighter, wasn't punching as hard.

When Floyd saw that a mediocre fighter like Algeiri was able to go the distance with Pac, he knew Pac was ripe for the picking.

He didn't want anything to do with Pac when he was knocking Hatton out cold in 2 rounds, or having Miguel Cotto stumbling around the ring like a drunk. That Pac would have knocked Floyd out, and Floyd knows that.

Oh and BTW even when he fought Pac, he cried for years about Pac cheating, then when he was sure Pac couldn't cheat... HE cheated! ;D

vs JMM at a catchweight and then Floyd says "The catchweight is bullshit" and doesn't even bother making the agreed upon weight.....I mean REALLY!

Haters Gonna Hate I suppose. I particularly like "Yeah but as we know all fighters age differently, hit their primes and wash up at different times." ;D

Pac has Marquez problems..the last punch 40 plus year old dodgy knees Marquez landed on Pac sparked him completely out.

There's levels to everything and Pac is at the Marquez level.

Since Floyd changed from pretty boy to money mayweather he has never had to use beast mode..he just potshots and wins..the majority find it boring.

He's not fighting anymore and there's no lack of fighters out there for him to fight.....think he'd consider the winner of Thurman-Garcia? I doubt it. Never fought Bradly, won't fight Crawford, won't fight GGG, wouldn't dare do it.


Floyd isn't going to wait anyone else out, he can't do it anymore ergo he's retired.


I bet he'd try Lomachenko just because of the size difference.


Connor McGregor, HA, that is ridiculous....may as well fight Charlie Zelenoff, they're both just as well versed in boxing.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

vs JMM at a catchweight and then Floyd says "The catchweight is bullshit" and doesn't even bother making the agreed upon weight.....I mean REALLY!

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Floyd is the biggest hypocrite in boxing

I remember meeting him twice when he was Pretty Boy Floyd. He was telling the whole crowd how all the top names were ducking him. Then when he got big he ducked everyone! ;D

He said catch weights were stupid then he insists on them and also doesn't make weight

He slammed Pac for years saying he was cheating with PEDs and then Floyd took a banned substance and banned IV

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

He's not fighting anymore and there's no lack of fighters out there for him to fight.....think he'd consider the winner of Thurman-Garcia? I doubt it. Never fought Bradly, won't fight Crawford, won't fight GGG, wouldn't dare do it.


Floyd isn't going to wait anyone else out, he can't do it anymore ergo he's retired.


I bet he'd try Lomachenko just because of the size difference.


Connor McGregor, HA, that is ridiculous....may as well fight Charlie Zelenoff, they're both just as well versed in boxing.

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He's not fighting anymore because he's the best part of 40 and he knows when to get out.
If people are stupid enough to pay enough for him to fight Macgregor, then yeah , he'll take the easy money and laugh in their faces!
And he loves people talking about him whether they like him or not, so even YOU are doing him a massive favour.😄. Well done for that.👏