Here's the Hopkins 'White Boy' incident

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Originally Posted by clean

I remember leading up to the Hopkins-Trinidad fight in one of the press conferences when Hopkins said to Trinidad he would serve him his last supper and then put rice and beans on the table right in front of him, so Hopkins playing the race card is nothing new, I think he simply does what he can to get under an opponent's skin. Not making an excuse because bringing race into sports is never right, but he's done similar things in the past.

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Yeah hes done other stuff too

I respect Hopkins for what hes done in the ring ( granted he is boring as f*k when doing it ) but now I think its about time he gets a good beating off someone . He has never met anyone capable of giving him a beating ( including welters like Oscar and Tito ) until now .

I think Pavlik would beat the living hell out of Hopkins. He is a white boy. A scary white boy.

I used to love Hopkins but now i have lost a lot of respect for him. I hope Calzaghe beats him

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

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Originally Posted by Mad_Dog

Hey bilbo, you do know that the Moors enslaved whites right? Happened for hundreds of years. very profitable for them.


anyhoo. Most black athletes that I grew up around considered white athletes physically inferior. Weaker. ( I am Mexican, had many a conversation about this when I was young)

so when hopkins said I would never let a white boy beat me, he said it cause he honestly feels that the black athlete is superior to the white one and he aint about to lose to him.

in a nut shell it is racist.

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Why is it? Most white people belive that black's are physically superior. That's why we enslaved them in the first place! We originally tried to run our sugar plantations using convicts, orphaned boys and other undesirables but they kept dying in the heat. The black's were physically tougher and could endure the hellish conditions.

Being unable to even acknowladge any differences between races is just absurd, political correctness gone mad imo.

I would say it's a fact that black's are physically more gifted than whites. They are naturally more muscular, it's a genetic trait. I would say on average that white's are more intelligent, certainly when using our current method's of intelligence testing. I've also read that Asian's, especially Japanese and Chinese are more intelligent still.

Asian's are shorter than black's and white's but they also live longer.

How is any of this racist, it's just fact's regarding humanity.

We shouldn't be afraid to even acknowledge differences between us, it's when we try to subjecate and abuse another race that it becomes racist.

Anyway back on topic, Hopkins comments taking on their own didn't infere a physical superiority over white's anyway, he simply said 'I will never lose to a white man'.

The statement on it's own doesn't infere racism or assertions of superioty one way or anther you are merely interpereting it that way.

If Joe Calzaghe was to say I'd never lose to an Englishman' would that be racist? Would he in saying that be asserting an aggressive superiority of Welsh over English? Should we be troubled by those comments?

Whilst such a comment might indeed rile up some English fans and turn it into a healthy bit of nationalistic pride nobody would read anything sinister into it.

I think his comments were the best thing that could have happened to this fight. Few people were really interested before but now we have a grudge fight and if it goes ahead as planned people will be wanting to see what happens.

It was good marketing and Joe himself will benefit from the extra publicity.

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I will never lose a debate to a white boy


just keedin ya fag

now go back to drinkin happy new year

i dont think b hop is a racist i just think he dont dont see himself losing to white boy. everybody knows blacks make better sprinters then whites so i think the same goes in boxing (generally speaking of course) all the best p4p in my opinion are black

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I would say it's a fact that black's are physically more gifted than whites. They are naturally more muscular, it's a genetic trait. I would say on average that white's are more intelligent,

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Absolute rubbish, Bilbo - I normally enjoy your posts but I have to pull you on this one.

There is no such thing as 'blacks'. There is no such thing as a 'Black' race.

Nobody in the world is actually 'black' for a start ...... just as nobody is really 'white'

Do you really think that a Somali is in any way genetically similar to a Nigerian? You are lumping up 'black' into one thing, and (I'm sorry to say, displaying some enormous ignorance, Bilbo).

Kikuyu from Kenya are very small, lithe people with great lung capacity. Some might make good middle distance runners but probably not rugby front rowers. Somalis are very tall and coordinated, some might make good basketball players, but not weightlifters. West Africans are heavyset and muscular, some might make good sprinters, but not long distance marathan runners. How about North Africans, Sri Lankans (who are just as 'black' in your vernacular as anyone else), Australian Aborigines, Congolese Pygmies or San Bushmen .... do you believe these to be the same race? ???

To say that 'they' are physically more muscular is just myopic generalisation, with no apparent acknowledgement of the enormous diversity contained within the human species. You condemn entire races to conform to half-baked stereotypes. I recall that Arnie was quite muscular ... does his achevement therefore become more that Lee Haney because Haney had a head start because he was muscular? Azumah Nelson must have lost 8 stone to fight at featherweight?

Then you also have a quarter-baked idea that whites are 'more intelligent' ??? How can you average the hundreds of million of 'blacks' of huge genetic and racial diversity? Do you think that all black people in the world are the same .... or do you think that they all are of West African (slave) extraction like most of the guys in the UK and the US?

I wonder if we think of South African Boers - white - big heavyset guys conditioned through generations of farming as the same, genetically, as Northern Italians - also white - but smaller boned? After all they are all 'whites'.

I don't normally sad click people, but sorry mate, you deserve one for that ignorant and steroetypical post .... delivered in a seemingly knowledgeable way, but actually the product of half-formed, unproven and populist science spoken in a strident way that actually seems to show you accept such nonsense as some sort of fact.

Sorry, Bilbo :dummespost:

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Originally Posted by X

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I would say it's a fact that black's are physically more gifted than whites. They are naturally more muscular, it's a genetic trait. I would say on average that white's are more intelligent,

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Absolute rubbish, Bilbo - I normally enjoy your posts but I have to pull you on this one.

There is no such thing as 'blacks'. There is no such thing as a 'Black' race.

Nobody in the world is actually 'black' for a start ...... just as nobody is really 'white'

Do you really think that a Somali is in any way genetically similar to a Nigerian? You are lumping up 'black' into one thing, and (I'm sorry to say, displaying some enormous ignorance, Bilbo).

Kikuyu from Kenya are very small, lithe people with great lung capacity. Some might make good middle distance runners but probably not rugby front rowers. Somalis are very tall and coordinated, some might make good basketball players, but not weightlifters. West Africans are heavyset and muscular, some might make good sprinters, but not long distance marathan runners. How about North Africans, Sri Lankans (who are just as 'black' in your vernacular as anyone else), Australian Aborigines, Congolese Pygmies or San Bushmen .... do you believe these to be the same race? ???

To say that 'they' are physically more muscular is just myopic generalisation, with no apparent acknowledgement of the enormous diversity contained within the human species. You condemn entire races to conform to half-baked stereotypes. I recall that Arnie was quite muscular ... does his achevement therefore become more that Lee Haney because Haney had a head start because he was muscular? Azumah Nelson must have lost 8 stone to fight at featherweight?

Then you also have a quarter-baked idea that whites are 'more intelligent' ??? How can you average the hundreds of million of 'blacks' of huge genetic and racial diversity? Do you think that all black people in the world are the same .... or do you think that they all are of West African (slave) extraction like most of the guys in the UK and the US?

I wonder if we think of South African Boers - white - big heavyset guys conditioned through generations of farming as the same, genetically, as Northern Italians - also white - but smaller boned? After all they are all 'whites'.

I don't normally sad click people, but sorry mate, you deserve one for that ignorant and steroetypical post .... delivered in a seemingly knowledgeable way, but actually the product of half-formed, unproven and populist science spoken in a strident way that actually seems to show you accept such nonsense as some sort of fact.

Sorry, Bilbo :dummespost:

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X even though you play around a lot you are actually very intelligent. Great post X have a :coolclick: on me.

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Originally Posted by X

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

I would say it's a fact that black's are physically more gifted than whites. They are naturally more muscular, it's a genetic trait. I would say on average that white's are more intelligent,

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Absolute rubbish, Bilbo - I normally enjoy your posts but I have to pull you on this one.

There is no such thing as 'blacks'. There is no such thing as a 'Black' race.

Nobody in the world is actually 'black' for a start ...... just as nobody is really 'white'

Do you really think that a Somali is in any way genetically similar to a Nigerian? You are lumping up 'black' into one thing, and (I'm sorry to say, displaying some enormous ignorance, Bilbo).

Kikuyu from Kenya are very small, lithe people with great lung capacity. Some might make good middle distance runners but probably not rugby front rowers. Somalis are very tall and coordinated, some might make good basketball players, but not weightlifters. West Africans are heavyset and muscular, some might make good sprinters, but not long distance marathan runners. How about North Africans, Sri Lankans (who are just as 'black' in your vernacular as anyone else), Australian Aborigines, Congolese Pygmies or San Bushmen .... do you believe these to be the same race? ???

To say that 'they' are physically more muscular is just myopic generalisation, with no apparent acknowledgement of the enormous diversity contained within the human species. You condemn entire races to conform to half-baked stereotypes. I recall that Arnie was quite muscular ... does his achevement therefore become more that Lee Haney because Haney had a head start because he was muscular? Azumah Nelson must have lost 8 stone to fight at featherweight?

Then you also have a quarter-baked idea that whites are 'more intelligent' ??? How can you average the hundreds of million of 'blacks' of huge genetic and racial diversity? Do you think that all black people in the world are the same .... or do you think that they all are of West African (slave) extraction like most of the guys in the UK and the US?

I wonder if we think of South African Boers - white - big heavyset guys conditioned through generations of farming as the same, genetically, as Northern Italians - also white - but smaller boned? After all they are all 'whites'.

I don't normally sad click people, but sorry mate, you deserve one for that ignorant and steroetypical post .... delivered in a seemingly knowledgeable way, but actually the product of half-formed, unproven and populist science spoken in a strident way that actually seems to show you accept such nonsense as some sort of fact.

Sorry, Bilbo :dummespost:

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Ah whatever mate so I guess that the fact no white athlete or anyone from non African descent has even made it to the Olympic Final of the 100 meters in the last 20 years is pure coincidence? The fact that the Kenyans have completely and utterly dominated all the long distance records in the last 30 years is coincidence too. And black's in basketball around 80% with the real stars being about 95% black is just coincidence too? ::**

It's a FACT OF SCIENCE that there are real physical differences between races. I'm not racist, at all. I am capable of recognising that we are not all exactly the same and that to suggest we are for the sake of political correctness is just dumb.

We should all embrace our differences. None of this is meant to suggest that one race is superioror over another which is what you and everyone else seems to infer but just that there are real and actual and more important scientifically proven differences between the different races in the world.

As for your wonderfully politically correct statement that there are no colours in the world I'[m amfraid you lost me completely on that one.

Anyhoo here's a nice link to a popular book on the subject from Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Taboo-Athletes...9220827&sr=1-1

and a few scientific journals just to show my 'ignorance' is not my own but simply the results of scientific research

Sources:

Books (including studies referenced therein):
Jon Entine, Taboo.

C. Bouchard, R. Malina, and L. Perusse, Genetics of Fitness and Physical Performance.

Barry Bogin, Patterns of Human Growth, 2nd Ed.

Tanner & Eveleth, Worldwide Variation in Human Growth, 2nd Ed

C. S. Coon, Racial Adaptations. (Useful info for effect of retinal pigmentation on reaction times.)

M. Levin, Why Race Matters (In addition to the section discussing race and athletic ability, there is data in other parts of the book on various psychomotor skills.)

J. P. Rushton, Race, Evolution and Behavior. (Deals with subject peripherally).

Michael H. Hart, Understanding Human History. (Deals with subject peripherally).

Articles:

J Appl Physiol 1986 Nov;61(5):1758-61, Skeletal muscle characteristics in sedentary black and Caucasian males. Ama PF, Simoneau JA, Boulay MR, Serresse O, Theriault G, Bouchard C.

Ethn Health 1996 Dec;1(4):337-47; Ethnic differences in body composition and their relation to health and disease in women. Gasperino J.

Am J Clin Nutr 2000 Jun;71(6):1392-402, Measures of body composition in blacks and whites: a comparative review. Wagner DR, Heyward VH.

J Appl Physiol 1984 Jun;56(6):1647-9, Density of lean body mass is greater in blacks than in whites. Schutte JE, Townsend EJ, Hugg J, Shoup RF, Malina RM, Blomqvist CG.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1995 Aug;80(8):2291-7, Greater secretion of growth hormone in black than in white men: possible factor in greater bone mineral density--a clinical research center study. Wright NM, Renault J, Willi S, Veldhuis JD, Pandey JP, Gordon L, Key LL, Bell NH.

J Natl Cancer Inst 1986 Jan;76(1):45-8; Serum testosterone levels in healthy young black and white men. Ross R, Bernstein L, Judd H, Hanisch R, Pike M, Henderson B.

J Appl Physiol 1999 Mar;86(3):915-23. African runners exhibit greater fatigue resistance, lower lactate accumulation, and higher oxidative enzyme activity. Weston AR, Karamizrak O, Smith A, Noakes TD, Myburgh KH.

J Appl Physiol 1993 Oct;75(4):1822-7, Superior fatigue resistance of elite black South African distance runners. Coetzer P, Noakes TD, Sanders B, Lambert MI, Bosch AN, Wiggins T, Dennis SC.

Eur J Appl Physiol Occup Physiol 1990;61(1-2):68-72, Physiological differences between black and white runners during a treadmill marathon. Bosch AN, Goslin BR, Noakes TD, Dennis SC.

Scand J Med Sci Sports 1995 Aug;5(4):209-21, Aerobic exercise capacity at sea level and at altitude in Kenyan boys, junior and senior runners compared with Scandinavian runners. Saltin B, Larsen H, Terrados N, Bangsbo J, Bak T, Kim CK, Svedenhag J, Rolf CJ.

Scand J Med Sci Sports 1995 Aug;5(4):222-30, Morphology, enzyme activities and buffer capacity in leg muscles of Kenyan and Scandinavian runners. Saltin B, Kim CK, Terrados N, Larsen H, Svedenhag J, Rolf CJ.

Racial differences in the sums of skinfolds and percentage of body fat estimated from impedance in black and white girls, 9 to 19 years of age: the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute Growth and Health Study. Morrison JA, Barton BA, Obarzanek E, Crawford PB, Guo SS, Schreiber GB. Division of Cardiology, Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center, Cincinnati, Ohio 45229, USA. morrj2@chmcc.org

Comparison of viscoelastic characteristics in triceps surae between Black
and White athletes. Fukashiro S, Abe T, Shibayama A, Brechue WF.

Total body potassium differs by sex and race across the adult age span. He Q, Heo M, Heshka S, Wang J, Pierson RN Jr, Albu J, Wang Z, Heymsfield SB, Gallagher D. Obesity Research Center, St Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital, and Institute of Human Nutrition, College of Physicians and Surgeons, Columbia University, New York, NY 1025, USA.

Peering Under the Hood of Africa's Runners, by Constance Holden

Current Science, Vol. 92, No. 1. 2007. ACTN3: Athlete Gene Prevalence in North India. Goel and Mittal.

Nature Genetics, Published online: 9 September 2007 | doi:10.1038/ng2122
Loss of ACTN3 gene function alters mouse muscle metabolism and shows evidence of positive selection in humans. Daniel G MacArthur1,2, Jane T Seto1,2, Joanna M Raftery1, Kate G Quinlan1,2, Gavin A Huttley3, Jeff W Hook4, Frances A Lemckert4, Anthony J Kee5, Michael R Edwards6, Yemima Berman1, Edna C Hardeman5, Peter W Gunning2,4, Simon Easteal3, Nan Yang1 & Kathryn N North1,2

Black sprinters and the anthropology of West African populations
• P.F.M. Ama, J.A. Simoneau, M.R. Boulay, O. Serresse, G. Thiériault, C. Bouchard: Skeletal muscle characteristics in sedentary Black and Caucasian males, Journal of Applied Physiology, 5/1986; p. 1758-1761
• P.F.M. Ama, P. Lagasse, C. Bouchard, J.A. Simoneau: Anaerobic performances in black and white subjects, MSSE, 4/1990
• P.F.M. Ama, S. Ambassa: Buoyancy of African black and European white males, American Journal of Human Biology, 9/1997
• L. Gerace et al.: Skeletal differences between black and white men, American Journal of Human biology, 6/1994
• Bradley C. Nindl, William J. Kraemer, Wesley H. Emmert, Scott A. Mazzetti, Lincoln A. Gotschalk, Margot Putukian, Wayne J. Sebastianelli, John F. Patton: Comparison of body composition assesment among lean black and white male collegiate athletes, MSSE, 5/1998
• Robert M. Malina: Racial and ethnic variation in the motor development and performance of American children, Canadian Journal of Sports Sciences, 1988; p. 136-143
• Takashi Abe, James B. Brown, William F. Brechue: Architectural characteristics of muscle in black and white college football players, MSSE, 10/1999
• Kenneth J. Ellis, Steven A. Abrams, William W. Wong: Body composition of a young, multiethnic female population, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1997; p. 724-31
• W.J. Duey, D.R. Bassett jr., D.J. Torok, E.T. Howley, V. Bond, P. Mancuso, R. Trudell: Skeletal muscle fibre type and capillary density in college-aged blacks and whites, Annals of Human Biology, 4/1997
• N.A. Ponthieux, D.G. Barker: Relationships between race and physical fitness, Research Quaterly, No. 4/1965
• Jose Antonio, Chris Street: Speed Demons - The domination of sport by blacks, http://www.testosterone.net/html/5speed.html
• Bruce Ettinger, Stephen Sidney, Steven R. Cummings, Cesar Libanati, Daniel D. Bikle, Irene S. Tekawa, Kimberly Tolan, Peter Steiger: Racial differences in bone density between young adult black and white subjects, Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism, 1997; p. 429-434
Kenyans and Ethiopans
• Marco Tartaglia, Giuseppina Scano, Gian Franco de Stefano: An anthropogenetic study on the Oromo and Amhara of Central Ethiopia, American Journal of Human Biology, 8/1996
• B. Saltin, C.K. Kim, N. Terrados, H. Larssen, J. Svedenhag, C.J. Rolf: Morphology, enzyme activities and buffer capacity in leg muscles of Kenyan and Scandinavian runners, Scandinavian Journal of Medicine and Science in Sports, 5/1995
• B. Saltin, C.K. Kim, N. Terrados, H. Larssen, J. Svedenhag, C.J. Rolf: Aerobic exercise capacity at sea level and at altitude in Kenyan boys, junior and senior runners compared with Scandinavian runners, Scandinavian Journal of Medicine and Science in Sports, 5/1995
• Alon Eliakim, Dan Nemet, Louis Shenkman: Serum enzyme activities following long-distance running: Comparison between Ethiopian and white athletes, Israel Journal of Medical Sciences, 11/1995
Black South Africans
• Adéle R. Weston, O. Karamizrak, A. Smith, T.D. Noakes, Kathryn H. Myburgh: African runners exhibit greater fatigue resistance, lower lactate accumulation and higher oxidative enzyme activity, Journal of Applied Physiology, 3/1999; p. 915-923
• Andrew N. Bosch, Brian R. Goslin, Timothy D. Noakes, Steven C. Dennis: Physiological differences between black and white runners during a treadmill marathon, European Journal of Applied Physiology, 1990; p. 68-72
• Pieter Coetzer, Timothy D. Noakes, Barry Sanders, Michael I. Lambert, Andrew N. Bosch, Toni Wiggins, Steven C. Dennis: Superior fatigue resistance of black South African endurance runners, Journal of Applied Physiology, 4/1993; p. 1822-27
• Adéle R. Weston, Z. Mbambo, Kathryn H. Myburgh: Running economy of African and Caucasian distance runners, Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 6/2000, p. 1130-4

General articles
• Tim Noakes: Why do Africans run so swiftly?, South African Journal of Science, 11-12/1998
• David R. Basset, jr. and Edward T. Howley: Limiting factors for maximum oxygen uptake and determinats of endurance performance, MSSE, 1/2000; p. 70-84
• Ward-Smith, A.J.: Aerobic and anaerobic energy conversion during high-intensity exercise, MSSE, 12/1999, p. 1855-1860
• Scientific American: Building the Elite Athlete, September 2000, especially pp. 90-97 (Gary Taubes: Deconstructing the Taboo), 98-103 (Reinout van Wagtendonk: Unlikely Domin-ation)
• Jesper L. Andersen, Peter Schjerling, Bengt Saltin: Muscle, genes and athletic performance, Scientific American, September 2000
http://www.cdc.gov/nhanes/ (see for body dimension comparisons).

Oh, come on Bilbo - you are normally more lucid than this ...... copying and pasting a whole pile of shit off the internet doesn't mean that a) you've read or understood any of them and b) has no scientific basis whatsoever.

You can find some idiot somewhere who will always agree with you ...... drop this one, mate.

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Originally Posted by X

Oh, come on Bilbo - you are normally more lucid than this ...... copying and pasting a whole pile of S*** off the internet doesn't mean that a) you've read or understood any of them and b) has no scientific basis whatsoever.

You can find some idiot somewhere who will always agree with you ...... drop this one, mate.

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I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing I just find it absurd that when it comes to race people just tend to be completely closed off to the possibilities of any differences between us.

As your own post mentioned the Kenyans are exceptionally gifted marathon runners. It's a genetic trait, they have a simply amazing cardiovascular system for running distances.

Other West Africans have exceptional locomotive speed, fast twitch muscle fibres, bigger thigh muscles and more powerful limbs for sprinting and explosive movement hence why they excel over short distances and basketball. They are simply great athletes. That's why not a single non West African has made it to the Olympic Final in the 100 meters in 20 years. In fact the last time a non black man held a world 100 meter sprinting record was in the 1960's.

It's also interesting that when it comes to brute strength and powerfifting, white athletes are supreme. They also make for better pole voters and high jumpers and again there are genetic and anatomical reasons for this.

This is not to say there arn't exceptions, Paula Radcliffe is a truly world class white distance runner for example, but she's a rarity.

Anyway none of what I'm saying has anything whatsoever to do with either my own personal opinion, or my own racial biases.

It's simply documented and scientifically researched facts. It does not imply that black's are better than whites or vice versa, but rather that there are slight anatomical and physiological differences between races, brought about through natural selection, genetics, enviroment and geography etc.

I'm really not trying to offend, I'm just stating what is blindingly obvious yet for some reason people are conditioned to feel repelled when any discussion of differences between us arises.

I can see Bilbo's point. If his point has no basis, then why did the 'Great White Hope' scenario come about. But the case is a grey area. It's murky and unclear.

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

As for your wonderfully politically correct statement that there are no colours in the world I'[m amfraid you lost me completely on that one.

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I didn't articulate this very well - what I meant was that hardly anyone is 'pure' racially, for example most Western 'black' people have 'white' blood and genetic coding in them, most Africans have different tribes 'blood' in them. This is due to interbreeding etc through history. Millions of people in the world, including western Europe contain Mongol DNA for instance but don't look Oriental.

That's waht I meant by that, as I am certainly nor particularly politically correct ;D

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Originally Posted by X

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Originally Posted by Bilbo

As for your wonderfully politically correct statement that there are no colours in the world I'[m amfraid you lost me completely on that one.

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I didn't articulate this very well - what I meant was that hardly anyone is 'pure' racially, for example most Western 'black' people have 'white' blood and genetic coding in them, most Africans have different tribes 'blood' in them. This is due to interbreeding etc through history. Millions of people in the world, including western Europe contain Mongol DNA for instance but don't look Oriental.

That's waht I meant by that, as I am certainly nor particularly politically correct ;D

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lol I guess that's true. To be honest we probably don't disagree about anything more than semantics. it's just very hard to even mention skin colour or race without people being instantly offended whethor not someone is making a racist remark or not.

All I'm saying though is that in general black's are more athletic than whites, something that is simply impossible to deny without ignoring the wealth of evidence produced through competition over the last 50 or so years.

If two breeds of dogs were raced every year for 30 years and one breed beat the other every single time (which is what has happened in sprinting and male distance running) then it wouldn't be questioned that one was faster than the other.

Now I am completely aware that black's and whites are both of the same species and I'm not arguing that these genetic traits are fixed and arn't subject to intermingling and future change but clearly blacks, whites and Asians have physical differences that not only will affect appearance but also affect performance in specific areas.

Intelligence is a much more sensitive subject to broach as it's virtually impossible to avoid the implication or suggestion of superiority even if not intended, and indeed intelligence is hard to quantify and objectify anywhere but again the brain is a physical organ and there is evidence for different levels of brain function not only racial but between the sexes.

It's kind of baffling how nobody at all objects to anthropologists telling us about different ape men and early man forms, homo erectus, homo neanderthalis, homo habilis etc and the differences in brain function in specific areas but mention differences now and people will call for the head of the person who made the comments.

Again I'm not suggesting superiority, we are all indeed equal and descended from a single mother in the distant past but I have no problem accepting that one race may have for example better spatial awareness, that another might have better visual memory recollection or the ability to quickly estimate quantity or distance.

These differences are not only racial but also between the sexes.

I find none of this in the least bit threatening, it's just another subject for scientific study like any other.

People who find offense to my mind are finding it for the sake of finding it rather than being offended by a specific implication.

By the way, none of this has ANY bearing on Hopkins comments, we/I have gone waaaaaaaaaaay off topic ::** :P

Oh no he's using the Chewbacca defense! (South Park reference)

Did this thread go from Bernard Hopkins to Charles Darwin?

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Originally Posted by tiger

i dont think b hop is a racist i just think he dont dont see himself losing to white boy. everybody knows blacks make better sprinters then whites so i think the same goes in boxing (generally speaking of course) all the best p4p in my opinion are black

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.....and white people make better swimmers......but is racist isn't it, it operates on a racial stereotype.

Believe it if you want to but I am absolutely 100% sure there is a white guy out there that can beat Bernard Hopkins right now: Joe Calzaghe, Andy Lee, Mikkel Kessler, Kelly Pavlik.....I am sure he'd lose to one of those guys

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by tiger

i dont think b hop is a racist i just think he dont dont see himself losing to white boy. everybody knows blacks make better sprinters then whites so i think the same goes in boxing (generally speaking of course) all the best p4p in my opinion are black

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.....and white people make better swimmers......but is racist isn't it, it operates on a racial stereotype.

Believe it if you want to but I am absolutely 100% sure there is a white guy out there that can beat Bernard Hopkins right now: Joe Calzaghe, Andy Lee, Mikkel Kessler, Kelly Pavlik.....I am sure he'd lose to one of those guys

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Nothing racist in that, decades of years of competition clearly bear that out. It's completely obvious that physical makeup will affect performance and people will do better or worse at certain sports based on body type, race etc.

When it comes to body type then obviously the biggest differences are in size, height, weight, etc and so clearly a 6 ft 5 in 230 lb man would make a much better rower, but a much worse distance runner than a 5 ft 7 130 lb man regardless of race.

Differences between race are more subtle and not as clearcut but decades of competition at the highest levels clearly demonstrates that some races do significantly better in some events than they do in others. It's not racist in the slightest to suggest that blacks are better at sprinting whilst whites are better at swimming since year in year out since before most of us were even born these results get confirmed .

Boxing however is far less clearcut as it depends on many skills and attributes. There are many different ways to win a boxing fight and two fighters of completely different build, power, stamina and physical makeup etc could both equally effective in their own way.

I don't think a definitive statement can be made regarding boxing as to which race is better as so many factors are involved. Certainly more of the top boxers are black but that may be attributable to social issues with black and South American athletes more likely to choose boxing as a sporting choice than whites.

It's an interesting question though and one that isn't racist at all as long as it's handled with sensitivity.

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Originally Posted by No Contest

Did this thread go from Bernard Hopkins to Charles Darwin?

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Unfortunately, its not entirely conclusive that the process of natural evolution was actually involved in any way. Lyle made the point that white people are better swimmers than black people, it must be remembered that classing people as black or white can be entirely foolish due to the inherent differences between a Slav and an Angle or ethiopean and a libyan. In regards to why at the highest level swimming is white dominated there are many reasons; white people generally have greater access to a pool which are located in white areas, white people (at least western european) have a lesser muscle mass that for example polyenisian people (by 20%) thus allowing them greater buyoncy in the water.

Most of the great black american athletes that dominate sports are not actually superior athletes due to the fact that they are black (in that case why don't African nations dominate the sprints in the same manner as kenya and ethiopia in distance running) but actually because of slavery and the form of indentured labour that followed. A little known fact is that, sickeningly, black slaves who were for example strong and fast were *breeded* (shudders) with slaves with similiar charecterstics to create the "strong" slave or the "slim" slave. You would probably find that many of toadys greatest black atlethets descendents were probably part of the "athletic" slave group, and the improved physical traits have been passed on. Hence why Jamaica, a relavitvely small island and population but with a dark colonial and slave history, produces so many sprinters.

It may seem ridiculous that genetic traits can be passed on so significantly and quickly but remember many breeds of dog have only existed in the past 90 years such as the border collie sheep dog.

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Originally Posted by 1-hit Wonder

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Originally Posted by No Contest

Did this thread go from Bernard Hopkins to Charles Darwin?

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Unfortunately, its not entirely conclusive that the process of natural evolution was actually involved in any way. Lyle made the point that white people are better swimmers than black people, it must be remembered that classing people as black or white can be entirely foolish due to the inherent differences between a Slav and an Angle or ethiopean and a libyan. In regards to why at the highest level swimming is white dominated there are many reasons; white people generally have greater access to a pool which are located in white areas, white people (at least western european) have a lesser muscle mass that for example polyenisian people (by 20%) thus allowing them greater buyoncy in the water.

Most of the great black american athletes that dominate sports are not actually superior athletes due to the fact that they are black (in that case why don't African nations dominate the sprints in the same manner as kenya and ethiopia in distance running) but actually because of slavery and the form of indentured labour that followed. A little known fact is that, sickeningly, black slaves who were for example strong and fast were *breeded* (shudders) with slaves with similiar charecterstics to create the "strong" slave or the "slim" slave. You would probably find that many of toadys greatest black atlethets descendents were probably part of the "athletic" slave group, and the improved physical traits have been passed on. Hence why Jamaica, a relavitvely small island and population but with a dark colonial and slave history, produces so many sprinters.

It may seem ridiculous that genetic traits can be passed on so significantly and quickly but remember many breeds of dog have only existed in the past 90 years such as the border collie sheep dog.

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:coolclick: Absolutely you make a good point with the connection to slavery, they were indeed bred as you say. It is absolutely horrific to imagine that that actually occurred >:mad

I also wonder if they have a greater tolerance to exercise and heat as a result of living in such a hot climate.

I think black's in general have a smaller chest cavity than white's but more muscle mass that makes it harder to swim as fast.

It's worth stating though that the differences are probably not massive and someone who excels at something would probably still excel regardless of their race.

Now we're in to nature vs nurture
Lets take the Germantown section of Philly where I,and oddly enough B-hop are from
I can find you a basketball court,the high school has a football field(circled by a track field),a basketball court and a boxing gym in the vacinity
I cant on the other hand find you a hockey rink or an inground swimming pool
Now if you move out to the Suburbs,Id be hard pressed to find you a boxing gym,and just about all the guys playing b-ball are only playing horse half the time
Well guess who ends up being good at what

Same here...
The upper class are good at rugby and soccer.
The middle of the road working class country people play GAA
The city types do athletics and watersports.