Margarito caught cheating?

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Originally Posted by CutMeMick

Alright seeing as some of you are blind and others are just idiots and felt the need to create 12 muthafucking threads about the wraps I made it one.

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:lol: yea it got rowdy here man.

but like i said antonio margarito deserves the benefit of the doubt. he has come across as a humble warrior and i am sure his not the type to intentionally add things to his glove so he can punish his oppenents.

Plus we should be celebrating an awesome performance by an awesome fighter suga shane mosley.

147 division is a lot more exciting now imo, rematches after rematches should be made and a shane berto match would be interesting as well.

If this is true I'm really disapointed on Margarito's part. Fukk him.

Marg took Cotto's best shots, Cotto fought the wrong fight wraps or not.. Cotto couldnt stifle Tony's pressure, couldnt make him take a step backwards.

Mosely controlled the pace, out muscled him and stood his ground.. Something Cotto didnt do. hopefully this is all blown out of proportion, I like to think Tony is a true warrior/ blood and guts fighter, not a cheat

Emmanuel set the other guys straight when they asked why Tony's punches werent thudding tonite like against Cotto, in reference to the wraps.. Steward pretty much told them the difference was Shane didnt let Tony get off on his punches and didnt give him the opportunity to whail away..... That was as sensible as a retort I've heard yet on the whole subject

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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales

i think the whole subject is bullshit, same thing i said when they blamed Trinidad, and seriously who the fuck is Mosley to talk about anything illegal in the sport, he was given a gift decision againt Oscar in the rematch and he had more juice in him than a bottle of Sunny Delight. oh but i guess if you didn't know it's illegal it's ok :rolleyes:

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Dude, Mosely isn't the one slinging mud. He even went as far as to tell Margarito fans: “Just because he lost you shouldn’t see him any different. I tip my hat to Margarito. He stepped in the ring with a veteran such as myself. We worked very hard in Big Bear and it showed tonight." I don't think Shane is the type to cheat. That was around the time they were just discovering those roids. A short time before that those same roids were undetectable.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cnwGdZGnyQQ

if that doesn't work then type 'margarito cotto post fight cesar' in youtube. Does it look like plaster on his hands? would a guy who fixed his wraps to be illegally solid as a rock be parading them about post fight?

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Originally Posted by Bomp

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cnwGdZGnyQQ

if that doesn't work then type 'margarito cotto post fight cesar' in youtube. Does it look like plaster on his hands? would a guy who fixed his wraps to be illegally solid as a rock be parading them about post fight?

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So you came to that conclusion that his wraps were clean from this video alone?

So then, can you see the plaster in these wraps?
Bonfix Plaster Of Paris Bandages BP Orthopedic Products

I can't either but it's in there.
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/1010971...c_Products.jpg

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

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Originally Posted by Bomp

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cnwGdZGnyQQ
if that doesn't work then type 'margarito cotto post fight cesar' in youtube. Does it look like plaster on his hands? would a guy who fixed his wraps to be illegally solid as a rock be parading them about post fight?

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So you came to that conclusion that his wraps were clean from this video alone?

So then, can you see the plaster in these wraps?
Bonfix Plaster Of Paris Bandages BP Orthopedic Products

I can't either but it's in there.
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/1010971...c_Products.jpg

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So he'd parade around the ring shaking hands with opposition trainers with rock solid wraps? or are they some sort of soft plaster?(which would rather defeat the object, but hey I'm not questioning your thought process.)

Here is a comment from boxing writer Bill Dettloff

"The revelation that Margarito had some illegal material in his hand wraps is profoundly unsettling, primarily because we don’t know how many times he’s gotten away with it in the past or to what degree it has contributed to his success."

Does anyone actually know how easy it is to spot? Cotto's trainer said he never saw anything wrong before their fight, yet it's the second time Nazim Richardson has spotted something dodgy. Does he just have a better than average eye?

If true, it would be hard to believe it was the first time they attempted it, and i wonder just how common it is? Considering the trainer of one of the best fighters in the world didn't see anything wrong.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Does anyone actually know how easy it is to spot? Cotto's trainer said he never saw anything wrong before their fight, yet it's the second time Nazim Richardson has spotted something dodgy. Does he just have a better than average eye?

If true, it would be hard to believe it was the first time they attempted it, and i wonder just how common it is? Considering the trainer of one of the best fighters in the world didn't see anything wrong.

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He spotted something illegal in the wraps, doesn't necessarily mean it was something specifically for hardening. They wrap the hands in front of a commissioner and an opponents guy, plus they're not trying to hide the wraps after the fight. Nothing came about of Nazim'z allegation against Tito, perhaps not again. Maybe it's a ploy to unsettle the fighter.

BOMP!!! dangerous thread title...........

plaster in cotto...... fight my arse

Sounds way too kinky for the main boards but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt fella:-X

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Originally Posted by Bomp

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Does anyone actually know how easy it is to spot? Cotto's trainer said he never saw anything wrong before their fight, yet it's the second time Nazim Richardson has spotted something dodgy. Does he just have a better than average eye?

If true, it would be hard to believe it was the first time they attempted it, and i wonder just how common it is? Considering the trainer of one of the best fighters in the world didn't see anything wrong.

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He spotted something illegal in the wraps, doesn't necessarily mean it was something specifically for hardening. They wrap the hands in front of a commissioner and an opponents guy, plus they're not trying to hide the wraps after the fight. Nothing came about of Nazim'z allegation against Tito, perhaps not again. Maybe it's a ploy to unsettle the fighter.

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That's what i initially thought (i didn't hear the HBO commentary) and what i was trying to get at about Nazim Richardson's eye. Is it really just a coincidence it's the same trainer that complained about the Tito hand-wraps? :-\

How would Plaster of Paris on his wraps make it so that he was able to take everything Cotto could dish out?

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Originally Posted by JeffP4PLacy

I knew there was smething funny about the way Cotto's face was breaking up.

MargaCHEATO exposed and Cotto will make you pay in June. Skinny weak btch.

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I hope Cotto doesn't lose on June because then, what excuse will there be? First it was "Oh, Cotto lost because of his nose that was damaged...Cotto lost because his body was damaged..." all kinds of excuses. Now the plaster in his fists. I am not justifying him if it is confirmed that he used that on his fists. If he cheated, then how bad really. Bad for him and the sport.

But, how can we explain the fact that Cotto's punches were mosquito bites on Margarito?

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Did you see Margaritos face after the Cotto bout? Those were more than just mosquito bites and just imagine, Cotto was getting hit with dirty wraps so we are using small 8 oz gloves and the wraps when harden, weigh about a pound each. All Tony had to do is land a few good shots with the cast fists and he would do damage. Had Tony not been caught cheating, he would have done the same to Mosley as he did to Cotto but the PUTO got caught cheating and then was exposed because he knew he did not have his loaded gloves to give him any advantage over Mosley. Tony with out his cheating cast wraps will get owned by Cotto if Tony does not retire first and look for Cintron to want a piece of that CHEATING motha' phuka's azz too because that is how Tony beat Cintron twice with them illegal wetback gloves of his that were soaked up to the hilt when someone said wait, something aint right here. No wonder Tony is a slow starter, the plaster dont set until he is in the later rounds :-\ Phuk you China for trying to defend that cheating azz puto.

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;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D:biglaugh::lolhaha::lolhaha::lolha ha::lolhaha::lolhaha::lolhaha::lolhaha::lolololol:

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

How would Plaster of Paris on his wraps make it so that he was able to take everything Cotto could dish out?

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Well for starters, Cotto would not have been able to "dish-out" at 100%; if he was being stuck with concrete in between his punches.

Dan Rafael on Margarito Cheating:

If there was anything of a downer, it is the possibility that Margarito tried to cheat by entering loaded gloves. Fortunately, Mosley trainer Nazim Richardson -- who, by the way, also trains Hopkins, so he knows a thing or two about guys turning back the clock -- objected to the way Margarito's hands had been wrapped, and during the removal of the tape, a "plaster-like substance" was found and removed. The California commission is investigating, but it stands to reason that if Margarito, 30, did try to cheat, it wasn't the first time. It casts a huge shadow over his victory against Cotto, whom he is supposed to meet again in June despite the loss. That is, if he's not suspended, which he should be if he did try to cheat.

If it happened,once that first punch landed,youd be warry as hell,you would get defensive and not want to throw much of anything except quick striking shots not blow your doors down shots

Did he look at all hesitant to come forwards though?

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Did he look at all hesitant to come forwards though?

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It didnt look like Cotto wanted to commit to throwing power shots,your open for awhile when you go for a big power shots,and he didnt look happy committing to those type of shots.
I thought he was weight drained at the time,this is easily as good of an explanation

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Did you see Margaritos face after the Cotto bout? Those were more than just mosquito bites and just imagine

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How can you explain that Cotto's punches didn't back off Margarito at all?

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Tony with out his cheating cast wraps will get owned by Cotto

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Let's say that Cotto loses again...what kind of excuse will you look for this time? Last time you said that if it wasn't because of Cotto's nose, he would totally win among other excuses.

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Phuk you China for trying to defend that cheating azz puto

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Nope, I am not defending him. I have already stated that I am not justifying cheating and just waiting for the 100% confirmation as it is still being investigated. I don't blind myself just because I root for someone.
I think someone else (you) is the puto here who drools over Cotto and starts threads showing pics about his muscular back, pics about him wearing sunglasses, a video of someone pulling his shorts down, etc. Well, maybe you are not a puto, you are a putito. You don't need to come out of the closet, its obvious already.

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

If it happened,once that first punch landed,youd be warry as hell,you would get defensive and not want to throw much of anything except quick striking shots not blow your doors down shots

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I wonder how much of a difference it really makes to be honest. I mean Cotto is pretty vulnerable anyways, but he was never hurt by Mosley, and Margarito who I have never thought had great power was able to break him down with punches that landed a lot less cleanly. Regardless I think Margarito's power comes from the fact he is so accurate with his punches whne his opponent is one the ropes, he was really able to land almost every punch in combinations where Cotto was on the ropes as the fight progressed.

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey

If it happened,once that first punch landed,youd be warry as hell,you would get defensive and not want to throw much of anything except quick striking shots not blow your doors down shots

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I wonder how much of a difference it really makes to be honest. I mean Cotto is pretty vulnerable anyways, but he was never hurt by Mosley, and Margarito who I have never thought had great power was able to break him down with punches that landed a lot less cleanly. Regardless I think Margarito's power comes from the fact he is so accurate with his punches whne his opponent is one the ropes, he was really able to land almost every punch in combinations where Cotto was on the ropes as the fight progressed.

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See the thing is,you really have to commit to punches like an overhand cross, or a big uppercut.
You take a shot like what might have happened if his wraps were like that,you find yourself quickly considering the joys of your jab and tight hooks,and trying to time the guy

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Originally Posted by Lance Uppercut

Dan Rafael on Margarito Cheating:

If there was anything of a downer, it is the possibility that Margarito tried to cheat by entering loaded gloves. Fortunately, Mosley trainer Nazim Richardson -- who, by the way, also trains Hopkins, so he knows a thing or two about guys turning back the clock -- objected to the way Margarito's hands had been wrapped, and during the removal of the tape, a "plaster-like substance" was found and removed. The California commission is investigating, but it stands to reason that if Margarito, 30, did try to cheat, it wasn't the first time. It casts a huge shadow over his victory against Cotto, whom he is supposed to meet again in June despite the loss. That is, if he's not suspended, which he should be if he did try to cheat.

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"it stands to reason" what kind of bullshit is this? ANd what kind of facts or anything does he have? Not shit. Pure speculation.

Espinoza touched on the hand wraps controversy with Margarito. Last Saturday, 30-minutes before Margarito would head to the ring to fight Mosley, a “plaster-like” material was found in Margarito’s wraps by an inspector for the California State Athletic Commission. Mosley’s trainer, Nazim Richardson, saw something strange with Margarito’s wraps and asked to feel them.

“When he put the wrapping on, I asked if I could feel it and when I felt it, I was like, ‘Oh my goodness, this is too hard,’ ” Richardson said to Yahoo Sports.

“When the commission flipped the [tape] over, a little block of gauze-like plaster fell out. I said, ‘Unwrap the other hand,’ and they were saying, ‘Oh, oh, the other hand is good.’ I asked the commissioner, ‘What if I unwrap the other hand at the end of the fight and it falls out of there, too?’

Dean Lohuis, the co-interim executive director of the California State Athletic Commission, told Yahoo Sports that both pieces of the plaster-like material were slipped in underneath the legal tape that was already placed on Margarito’s hands by his trainer Javier Capetillo. Mosley’s attorney Judd Burstein had to arrive in the dressing room before a member of the commission put the pieces in a box and handed them to Lohuis.

“[Richardson] made them unwrap it. And when they unwrapped the other hand, another one fell out. It was wet with a little plaster on it.”

Margarito had to rewrap his hands three times before they were deemed legal.

Espinoza says that nobody on Margarito’s team did anything illegal and everything will be cleared up when the California commission is done with their investigation.

"We did not do anything illegal. What happened was that Capetillo prepared the gauzes that are used, two weeks before [the fight] and had them in a lump with cloth that apparently was humid and therefore hardened,” Espinoza said. “There was no substance like that there [the plaster]. The commission asked us to bandage his hands again and we did.”

True or not,and Im reserving judgment,its proving how its a good idea to just use fresh materials in your wraps.
As my brother in law likes to say about when a hooker stole his wallet and he didnt go to the cops,"No matter what you say,its not a good story"

It wouldn't surprise me if it was true about Margarito trying to cheat. Look at the punches Cotto hit him with vs the punches he hit Cotto with then looking at the damage inflicted.....it doesn't add up to me

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Originally Posted by Lyle

It wouldn't surprise me if it was true about Margarito trying to cheat. Look at the punches Cotto hit him with vs the punches he hit Cotto with then looking at the damage inflicted.....it doesn't add up to me

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Look at the number of punches.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

It wouldn't surprise me if it was true about Margarito trying to cheat. Look at the punches Cotto hit him with vs the punches he hit Cotto with then looking at the damage inflicted.....it doesn't add up to me

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At the time we all thought Tony was just a hard punching machine, no matter where he hit you it hurt and in effect broke opponents down. When you think back to the Cotto fight he got busted up in two rounds, as soon as he started to get caught with shots he looked in more trouble than normal.

It really does make you think Lyle

IMO Margarito didn't land what HBO said he did, he landed quite a few punches, but not that many, and a lot of them were glancing blows or ones where he gets no leverage into the punch.

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Originally Posted by Lyle

It wouldn't surprise me if it was true about Margarito trying to cheat. Look at the punches Cotto hit him with vs the punches he hit Cotto with then looking at the damage inflicted.....it doesn't add up to me

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Thinking back, it doesn't add up. That fight was the fight that Margarito finally won me over but I'm almost always instinctively a good judge of character and talent...and something never sat well with me about Tony.

People spoke about how humble he was but I always found him an arrogant prick.

The whole, 'nobody wants to fight me' shit. Well, no shit sherlock, you had nothing to offer anybody!

Against Paul Williams he gave the man zero credit for his victory and said 'everyone in Mexico knows that I won this fight' - So he smokes crack too...

Clottey owned him for 4 rounds until he broke his hand and I believe he takes him if they fight again.

and now, if this is found out to be true, Cotto would have coasted to victory in their fight.

He also just got knocked the fuck out by a 37 year old..

And Mayweather ducked him??? :rolleyes:;D keep dreaming Margo fans.

Maybe I'm being harsh on Tony and it's not his fault but come on..if your trainer is sticking two hard bits of plaster in your wraps, I think you'd notice. Therefore, he should take the blame for this as much as his cornermen.
He could have killed somebody

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Originally Posted by hardcore_crash

Look at the number of punches.

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when Cotto gets hit he doesn't usually get horribly beaten up....maybe some bleeding here and there but nothing like what we saw vs Margarito and Cotto has good defense too and as Kel said he really only took 2 rounds of punishment!!!!


Margarito is a lying cheater unless he provides a better explination....if I was Nazim Richardson I would have saved those peices of plaster to give to the athletic commission after the fight.

I gave Margarito full credit for beatign Cotto and now to see that he's a cheat...it sickens me, he could have ruined one of my favorite fighters!!!!

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

How would Plaster of Paris on his wraps make it so that he was able to take everything Cotto could dish out?

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OK so you hit me with regulation wraps and I hit you with horseshoes in my gloves and we'll see how long you stand infront of me....his power from illegal handwraps made Cotto change his gameplan and move around constantly AND therefore took away Cotto's power and also Cotto took the majority of punches for what 2-3 rounds?!?! And he looked like he had been pummled with a sledgehammer!!!

He would have done the same thing to mosley if he could have hit him more often. Mosley moved well and was very accurate with hard punches, so toney couldn't get many punches off.

Naazim Calls Doctored Gloves "Deliberate"

The California State Athletic commission is investigating two hard blocks of gauze that were found in Antonio Margarito's gloves before Saturday's WBA welterweight championship at the Staples Center.

By GEORGE WILLIS

The trainer for Shane Mosley on Monday said two blocks of a plaster-like substance discovered in Antonio Margarito's gloves before their welterweight championship fight Saturday night at the Staples Center was a "deliberate" act that deserves a thorough investigation.

"It was deliberate, but on whose part? I don't know," said Naazim Richardson, who worked Mosley's corner and was the one who discovered two blocks of hardened gauze wrapped around the knuckles of Margarito's fists. "For all I know the corner could have been wrapping it that way for all of his fights, and Margarito could have been just as surprised as anybody that it was wrong."

The California State Athletic Commission confirmed on Monday it has sent "two samples" to its offices in Sacramento to be examined. "We are investigating, but I'm not authorized to say any more," said Dean Lohuis, chief inspector of the CSAC, who worked the fight won by Mosley on a ninth-round technical knockout.

Here's what happened. The controversy began when Richardson was in Margarito's dressing room to witness the wrapping of his hands. One hand already had been wrapped and approved by the CSAC before Richardson's arrival.

In the process of wrapping the other hand, Richardson questioned the amount of tape going directly on Margarito's skin, and asked for a rewrapping. During the rewrapping, it got to a point where a cushion was placed across Margarito's knuckles. But when Richardson asked if he could "feel" the cushion that's when the Margarito camp began to protest.

Margarito's co-manager Francisco Espinoza was the most defiant telling Richardson, "I expected this from you," to which Richardson said: "You should expect me to do my job."

Over protests from the Margarito camp, Richardson was allowed to feel the cushion. "It was brick hard," said Richardson, who told the Lohuis to feel it himself. Once Lohuis felt the cushion he ordered that it be "opened up," Richardson said.

"When he opened it up, a little square block of old wet gauze packed real tight came out," Richardson said. "It was like it had plaster on it. I think it had an old dried up blood stain on it."

Richardson asked Margarito's previously wrapped hand be inspected as well, and another hard block of gauze was found in that wrapping. According to witnesses, a doctor for the Mosley camp inspected the two blocks of hardened gauze and said, "This is what we use in the hospital to make casts."

Both samples were given to Mosley's lawyer Judd Burstein, who said they felt like "plaster of Paris." He then gave them to Lohuis with the assurance they would be secured it such a way they wouldn't be tampered with. "It looked to me like the kind of thing that if the fight went on when (Margarito's) hands got sweaty and it would harden so it would feel like a cast," Burstein said.

Richardson said the blocks of hardened gauze had been packed and treated in such as way that it could make Margarito's punches feel like bricks especially in later rounds. "As you fight the natural cushion in the gloves wear down," Richardson said, "so by the later rounds you're basically getting hit with that plaster in there. That kind of stuff is ridiculous."

Margarito and his handlers face possible suspensions and fines if they are found to have deliberately broken rules. Margarito's co-manager Sergio Diaz was not in his office on Monday and he didn't return a message left by the Post. A spokesman for Top Rank Inc., Margarito's promoter, said the issue is between the trainer, Javier Capetillo, and the CSAC. "We'll see what happens," the spokesman said.

Margarito's hands were wrapped a third time and approved for the fight, which Mosley dominated en route to the surprising victory. Margarito was coming off a career-defining win over Miguel Cotto last July were Margarito's thunderous punches battered Cotto into an 11th round TKO. Don't expect the Margarito camp to confess how the fighter's hands were wrapped for that bout.

"I can only imagine what Cotto is thinking now," Burstein said. "I've never seen somebody not working out sweating as badly as the guy who was wrapping Margarito's hands when this was going on. It was like they got caught with their hands in the cookie jar."

Richardson has served as a long-time trainer to Bernard Hopkins and raised a similar issue before Hopkins' fight with Tito Trinidad 2001 at the Garden. Richardson objected when Felix Trinidad Sr. was wrapping Tito's hands with layers of gauze, then layers of tape, then more gauze and tape, etc., which was against rules of the New York State Athletic Commission.

"I've been through this before," Richardson said. "I don't want to tarnish nobody's image. Margarito might not have known what was going on because he wasn't really objecting to being rewrapped. But somebody did it."

Richardson isn't sure how the fight would have been affected had the blocks of hardened gauze not been discovered. "I don't think anybody would have beaten Shane Mosley that night," he said. "But with that plaster in there, it might have made it a little rougher."

Ok now I see how they might have been slipping it through,you put together wrap pads in advance,it goes in to your wraps,but you usually want them pre-done because your running on the clock,and theyre pretty easy to screw up if you let your mind wander,so youve allready got them pre-done in your wrap kit if your working a corner. They really dont get checked much,because if they get prodded and poked too much,the whole thing falls apart. It being in the wrap cushions makes sense, that would be just about the best place to stash it. The gloves are supplied by the promoter, most of the wrap is done in public,but the wrap pads are usually done in advance of the fight,and are just sitting in the cornermans kit.
To explain a wrapped cushion of guaze is put right over a fighters knuckles,basically an extended oval of gauze,it looks like a gauze pickle. Those are usually pre-made in advance,so you can just tape them down real quick. But if you poke and prod the hell out of them,they start to unravel.

Though if this is where they case,(still not proven),that was an INCREDIBLY stupid thing for Margarito's team to do,the benefits of anything short of a lead weight would have been negligible at best,the pads just arent big enough. But it is HIGHLY illegal, and now theyre all in serious dutch because of it

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Originally Posted by Lyle

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Originally Posted by hardcore_crash

Look at the number of punches.

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when Cotto gets hit he doesn't usually get horribly beaten up....maybe some bleeding here and there but nothing like what we saw vs Margarito and Cotto has good defense too and as Kel said he really only took 2 rounds of punishment!!!!


Margarito is a lying cheater unless he provides a better explination....if I was Nazim Richardson I would have saved those peices of plaster to give to the athletic commission after the fight.

I gave Margarito full credit for beatign Cotto and now to see that he's a cheat...it sickens me, he could have ruined one of my favorite fighters!!!!

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Cotto routinely bleeds through his mouth like a stuck pig

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

Article reveals plaster in both of Tony's gloves :mad:
Margarito trying to plaster Mosley? | The Fabulous Forum | Los Angeles Times

Phuk you Tony, I hope you get fined a few MILLION dollars for this.

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:)
Antonio Margarito cleared of wrongdoing in Miguel Cotto fight - SI.com - Boxing :)

Hey Danny,
If you want you can copy and paste the link to all the other bunch of threads you made about this issue.

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

Article reveals plaster in both of Tony's gloves :mad:
Margarito trying to plaster Mosley? | The Fabulous Forum | Los Angeles Times

Phuk you Tony, I hope you get fined a few MILLION dollars for this.

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:)
Antonio Margarito cleared of wrongdoing in Miguel Cotto fight - SI.com - Boxing :)

Hey Danny,
If you want you can copy and paste the link to all the other bunch of threads you made about this issue.

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chino neg that coward! everyone is ganging up on us mexicans man.

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Originally Posted by Moono

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Originally Posted by Chino

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Originally Posted by Danny_G

Article reveals plaster in both of Tony's gloves :mad:
Margarito trying to plaster Mosley? | The Fabulous Forum | Los Angeles Times

Phuk you Tony, I hope you get fined a few MILLION dollars for this.

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:)
Antonio Margarito cleared of wrongdoing in Miguel Cotto fight - SI.com - Boxing :)

Hey Danny,
If you want you can copy and paste the link to all the other bunch of threads you made about this issue.

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chino neg that coward! everyone is ganging up on us mexicans man.

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dude just shut the hell up, this has nothing to do with race, i'd say that your attacks against Pacquiao is more about race than anything :rolleyes: