Wanna make an Ass of yourself and say Klıts can fıght lıke thıs?

You just said quotes don't prove anything then go onto use quotation's LOL.

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Here's a quote from Manny Steward in 2003 after Lewis made the Johnson fight - "Lennox can only lose through complacency, he can go on until 40, he will KO Johnson, Vitali, Roy Jones"

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“I told Lennox after the fight: I feel like we owe Vitali a rematch. Lennox agreed with me".

-Steward. No getting out of that on Fenster.

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Here's a quote from Lewis on retirement in 2003 - Speculation has been mounting over the last six months that Lewis will retire from the sport altogether rather than step back into the ring

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You do know those quotations u gave me are from an interview in which LL stated this about Tyson:

"It really depends on him," said Lewis. "I'm not forcing any man to fight me. But when we signed for the first fight, we signed for two fights.

"I'm waiting for him to write to me to let me know his next move"

How embarrasing...He's crying about a shot to shit tyson not fighting him again yet a fight with a live body like VK who actually posed a threat in the previous fight (and that would make millions) and in which LL agreed to was shelved! LOL. So not only was Steward looking at a potential Jones fight, LL by his own admission was awaiting a Tyson rematch! LOL again. Also note the link does not rule out a fight with Jones Jr.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/2812363.stm

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What a trainer wants and fighter wants are two seperate things. Just because Manny thought HIS fighter could still beat anyone out there doesn't mean Lewis wanted to carry on.

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Jones, the WBA champion, now seems to be Lewis’s long-term target “We’ll just keep fighting guys until the big fight with Roy Jones comes up and I think it will happen eventually,” Emanuel Steward, Lewis’s trainer, said.

Make of that what u will.

P.s And i never stated Lewis was calling anyone out did i? Facts are thus: Lewis agreed to a rematch and did not come through on it.

I think Wlad is chinny and hasn't been severely tested. His losses have been by ugly KO.

Vitali, though is a whole 'nother story.
He hits just as hard as Wlad, but has a chin of granite.

He may not be as mobile and agile as Wlad, but IMO has been the better all-around fighter.

All this is to say that I don't get the Lewis hate while supporting Vitali, or the Vitali hate in supporting Lewis. All I saw was a hugely tremendous fight, the likes of which we haven't seen since. THAT was a heavyweight fight. We were robbed of more of this classic when Vitali got that ugly gash over his eye. If not... the fight was promising to be a classic for the ages.

Wlad, on the other hand, has never faced that kind of test.
And the first one to mention Sam Peter gets shot.

@THE PHILOSOPHER

I said YOUR quotes don't prove anything. As I have shown.

This is what you said -

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Any notion of Lewis considering retirement prior to VK is ended with this extract from Lewis and Steward in 03:

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This is what Lewis said in 2003 prior to Vitali

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"Retirement - that is an option for me. It's certainly tempting. I really need a fight to make me feel the desire to go through all the training," said Lewis. "It has to get me excited. At this point I'm not excited by anyone."

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Lewis was considering retirement BEFORE the Vitali fight. Fact.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Vıtalı/Wlad-pussıes would cave ın havıng taken even 1/5th of the number of those shots.

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There's more to boxing than standing in one spot and trading punches, any idiot can do that. Why do you think letting someone scramble your brain is a good or heroic thing? I like the occasional slugfest as much as anyone but I also think it's the stupidest way to fight. When I see someone staying on the ropes taking punch after punch all I think is, what an idiot. One thing for sure, I don't have any admiration for that style.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but please, please pick one besides the Klitschkos, we've heard it all and, believe me, so have they.

@THE PHILOSOPHER

Also get your facts and figures right about purses. Vitali-Lewis 2 would have never got CLOSE to earning Lewis a "record" amount. Fact.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

@THE PHILOSOPHER

I said YOUR quotes don't prove anything. As I have shown.

This is what you said -

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Any notion of Lewis considering retirement prior to VK is ended with this extract from Lewis and Steward in 03:

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This is what Lewis said in 2003 prior to Vitali

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"Retirement - that is an option for me. It's certainly tempting. I really need a fight to make me feel the desire to go through all the training," said Lewis. "It has to get me excited. At this point I'm not excited by anyone."

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Lewis was considering retirement BEFORE the Vitali fight. Fact.

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Lewis on Tyson in 03:

"It really depends on him," said Lewis. "I'm not forcing any man to fight me. But when we signed for the first fight, we signed for two fights.

"I'm waiting for him to write to me to let me know his next move."

Also note your link (The one which u got your extract from!) pre-dates the VK fight. That is an important point here!!! It was an interview before he fought that epic with vitali!

Your extract: "Retirement - that is an option for me. It's certainly tempting. I really need a fight to make me feel the desire to go through all the training"

U mean like a VK rematch lennox? LOL. U know...one in which he only got 11 days notice and gave u an epic! How about one in which he gets more than a weeks notice and get's some serious prep under his belt rather than going through the motions with the cedric boswells of the world!

I don't think he was seriously considering it until he fought VK. His Tyson comments and Mannys comments on Jones pretty much support this! Could u also explain why he agreed to a rematch if he was going to retire? You don't agree to a fight then retire do you! Does not add up to me! LL was not retiring because he agreed to a rematch with VK. Fact. Tyson signed to fight him twice too! So explain that one! And Manny was gunning for jones! Again not really the talk of a team considering calling an immediate halt! LL would not have retired had he fought his mandatory Kirk Johnson and not VK. U damn well know it Fenster!

Im far from weeping yet fenster. Up your game son.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

@THE PHILOSOPHER

Also get your facts and figures right about purses. Vitali-Lewis 2 would have never got CLOSE to earning Lewis a "record" amount. Fact.

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I disagree. The fight would have been a big deal 'Record amounts'? Maybe...Maybe not. The figures would have been huge though.

Does anyone know exactly how much LL turned down for the VK rematch! I have read several times that Lewis turned down $20 million dollars six months later to fight a rematch with Vitali. Is this correct?

Up my game? Not only have I proven I was right you have as well.

I stated Lewis considered retirement prior to the Vitali fight. Which is a 100% proven fact. You said this was nonsense and produced a quote from Manny Steward talking about Roy Jones in 2003.

I then provided evidence that proves me right. You then posted a link (BBC SPORT | Boxing | Lewis rules out Jones clash) that confirmed I was 100% right. That link tells us that - 3 months before fighting Vitali, Lewis had no interest in him, Johnson or Jones. He was either retiring or fighting Tyson again. That's it.

I couldn't careless about your personal opinion of Lewis. What happened after the Vitali fight is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by beenKOed

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

Vıtalı/Wlad-pussıes would cave ın havıng taken even 1/5th of the number of those shots.

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There's more to boxing than standing in one spot and trading punches, any idiot can do that. Why do you think letting someone scramble your brain is a good or heroic thing? I like the occasional slugfest as much as anyone but I also think it's the stupidest way to fight. When I see someone staying on the ropes taking punch after punch all I think is, what an idiot. One thing for sure, I don't have any admiration for that style.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but please, please pick one besides the Klitschkos, we've heard it all and, believe me, so have they.

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....look who you're talking to man, there's no explaining "the sweet science" to him

At the start of the thread it was asked whether the vlit brothers could hang out 15 rounds like the greats did.
The answer is yes when talking about both in todays opposition.
The answer is no when talking about Wlad with some the legends from yesterday.
The answer is yes when talking about vitali with yesterday and todays fighters.

As someone said before standing toe to toe and beating each others brains out is not a smart/long term positive in boxing.
Floyd adopts the safety first style more than anyone else but comparing him to Wlad is like chalk and cheese.

Lennox and Vitali has a great fight in the ring and lennox won.
Lennox didnt give vitali a rematch just like calzaghe didnt give an old hopkins (who some say beat joey c).
Does that make either have there win removed from the history books..no it doesnt.

No one knows what could have happened in either rematch but what was evident in the vitali/lewis was that lewis stopped vitali.

Lewis stopped vitali.

Lets just respect the facts.
Promoters, trainers and fighters say lots of things but vitali could not continue.

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Originally Posted by imp

At the start of the thread it was asked whether the vlit brothers could hang out 15 rounds like the greats did.
The answer is yes when talking about both in todays opposition.
The answer is no when talking about Wlad with some the legends from yesterday.
The answer is yes when talking about vitali with yesterday and todays fighters.

As someone said before standing toe to toe and beating each others brains out is not a smart/long term positive in boxing.
Floyd adopts the safety first style more than anyone else but comparing him to Wlad is like chalk and cheese.

Lennox and Vitali has a great fight in the ring and lennox won.
Lennox didnt give vitali a rematch just like calzaghe didnt give an old hopkins (who some say beat joey c).
Does that make either have there win removed from the history books..no it doesnt.

No one knows what could have happened in either rematch but what was evident in the vitali/lewis was that lewis stopped vitali.

Lewis stopped vitali.

Lets just respect the facts.
Promoters, trainers and fighters say lots of things but vitali could not continue.

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Ali gave Quarry a rematch....just sayin'

And ali won again!

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Originally Posted by imp

And ali won again!

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...so what was Lennox's excuse? ;D

Lennox never fought anyone again which illustrates that he was finished, he was a career heaviest and Vitali was training to fight on the under card. Lennox knew the injury would take a long while to repair and Lennox had done it all so he did the right thing and retire. Lennox never avoided Vitali.

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Originally Posted by Master

Lennox never fought anyone again which illustrates that he was finished, he was a career heaviest and Vitali was training to fight on the under card. Lennox knew the injury would take a long while to repair and Lennox had done it all so he did the right thing and retire. Lennox never avoided Vitali.

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Exactly.

Vitali needed lennox.
Lennox didnt need vitali.

Anyway, lets ask this question..lennox had had some great tear ups over the years...since vitali fought lennox has there been any notable fights for vitali since?..

frank bruno vs Wlad would be a another interesting match..two robots going at it.
Bruno wins decision.

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Originally Posted by imp

Exactly.

Vitali needed lennox.
Lennox didnt need vitali.

Anyway, lets ask this question..lennox had had some great tear ups over the years...since vitali fought lennox has there been any notable fights for vitali since?..

frank bruno vs Wlad would be a another interesting match..two robots going at it.
Bruno wins decision.

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Vitali vs Sanders was good albeit a trifle one sided. Vitali absolutely crushed Johnson and Williams. I think the Williams fight was Vitali at the very top of his game. Vitali gave him a thorough beating.

Bruno would get picked apart...sorry, he just was not top class.

The gap between vitali and wlad is huge!
Vitali is better than Wlad in every way.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by imp

Exactly.

Vitali needed lennox.
Lennox didnt need vitali.

Anyway, lets ask this question..lennox had had some great tear ups over the years...since vitali fought lennox has there been any notable fights for vitali since?..

frank bruno vs Wlad would be a another interesting match..two robots going at it.
Bruno wins decision.

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Vitali vs Sanders was good albeit a trifle one sided. Vitali absolutely crushed Johnson and Williams. I think the Williams fight was Vitali at the very top of his game. Vitali gave him a thorough beating.

Bruno would get picked apart...sorry, he just was not top class.

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Bruno was durable and had better competition at the time than Wlad.
I would consider Wlad and bruno to be in the same class/level.

Put it this way bruno would be the toughest test for Wlad right now as bruno was always in superb condition

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Originally Posted by imp

Bruno was durable and had much better competition than Wlad.
I would consider Wlad and bruno to be in the same class/level.

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Well it'll bring erics44 to tears to read that


I see Bruno on par with Golota and Rahman

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by imp

Bruno was durable and had much better competition than Wlad.
I would consider Wlad and bruno to be in the same class/level.

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Well it'll bring erics44 to tears to read that


I see Bruno on par with Golota and Rahman

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Kabong, im not a big fan of bruno but there styles are very similar.

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Originally Posted by imp

Kabong, im not a big fan of bruno but there styles are very similar.

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Meh....I always saw a link between Rahman and Bruno. The long arms, the big power, the pummeling from Lennox Lewis. But hey, you see what you see.

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Originally Posted by imp

The gap between vitali and wlad is huge!
Vitali is better than Wlad in every way.

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Particularly in two areas: chin and guts.

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by imp

Exactly.

Vitali needed lennox.
Lennox didnt need vitali.

Anyway, lets ask this question..lennox had had some great tear ups over the years...since vitali fought lennox has there been any notable fights for vitali since?..

frank bruno vs Wlad would be a another interesting match..two robots going at it.
Bruno wins decision.

---

Vitali vs Sanders was good albeit a trifle one sided. Vitali absolutely crushed Johnson and Williams. I think the Williams fight was Vitali at the very top of his game. Vitali gave him a thorough beating.

Bruno would get picked apart...sorry, he just was not top class.

---

Bruno was durable and had better competition at the time than Wlad.
I would consider Wlad and bruno to be in the same class/level.

Put it this way bruno would be the toughest test for Wlad right now as bruno was always in superb condition

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Wlad is clearly a couple of classes above Bruno. The lasting memory of Bruno is that of a coward. Wlad might fight scared when he's in the ring. Bruno is scared walking to the ring. It was pathetic how terrified he was going into the Tyson rematch. He crossed himself about 20 times. Than went out and folded like a fucking lawn chair. Didn't even put up a fight

Lamont Brewster and Corrie Sanders are 2 of Wlad's opponents who would beat Bruno. And with Bruno's pitiful stamina, against Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers it's a 50-50 fight.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by imp

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by imp

Exactly.

Vitali needed lennox.
Lennox didnt need vitali.

Anyway, lets ask this question..lennox had had some great tear ups over the years...since vitali fought lennox has there been any notable fights for vitali since?..

frank bruno vs Wlad would be a another interesting match..two robots going at it.
Bruno wins decision.

---

Vitali vs Sanders was good albeit a trifle one sided. Vitali absolutely crushed Johnson and Williams. I think the Williams fight was Vitali at the very top of his game. Vitali gave him a thorough beating.

Bruno would get picked apart...sorry, he just was not top class.

---

Bruno was durable and had better competition at the time than Wlad.
I would consider Wlad and bruno to be in the same class/level.

Put it this way bruno would be the toughest test for Wlad right now as bruno was always in superb condition

---

Wlad is clearly a couple of classes above Bruno. The lasting memory of Bruno is that of a coward. Wlad might fight scared when he's in the ring. Bruno is scared walking to the ring. It was pathetic how terrified he was going into the Tyson rematch. He crossed himself about 20 times. Than went out and folded like a fucking lawn chair. Didn't even put up a fight

Lamont Brewster and Corrie Sanders are 2 of Wlad's opponents who would beat Bruno. And with Bruno's pitiful stamina, against Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers it's a 50-50 fight.

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Tyson can strike fear into any man. Let alone a guy thats beaten you already fresh out of prison.

Styles make fights and prime bruno vs prime vlad would be torture to watch but it goes either way.

There's a difference between absolutely shitting yourself, especially against a man that's already battered you, and being a "coward"

You can't practice handling pressure

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by imp

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by imp

Exactly.

Vitali needed lennox.
Lennox didnt need vitali.

Anyway, lets ask this question..lennox had had some great tear ups over the years...since vitali fought lennox has there been any notable fights for vitali since?..

frank bruno vs Wlad would be a another interesting match..two robots going at it.
Bruno wins decision.

---

Vitali vs Sanders was good albeit a trifle one sided. Vitali absolutely crushed Johnson and Williams. I think the Williams fight was Vitali at the very top of his game. Vitali gave him a thorough beating.

Bruno would get picked apart...sorry, he just was not top class.

---

Bruno was durable and had better competition at the time than Wlad.
I would consider Wlad and bruno to be in the same class/level.

Put it this way bruno would be the toughest test for Wlad right now as bruno was always in superb condition

---

Wlad is clearly a couple of classes above Bruno. The lasting memory of Bruno is that of a coward. Wlad might fight scared when he's in the ring. Bruno is scared walking to the ring. It was pathetic how terrified he was going into the Tyson rematch. He crossed himself about 20 times. Than went out and folded like a fucking lawn chair. Didn't even put up a fight

Lamont Brewster and Corrie Sanders are 2 of Wlad's opponents who would beat Bruno. And with Bruno's pitiful stamina, against Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers it's a 50-50 fight.

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Bruno couldn't have been worse than Bruce "Louganis" Seldon.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by imp

The gap between vitali and wlad is huge!
Vitali is better than Wlad in every way.

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Particularly in two areas: chin and guts.

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If Wlad had these we wouldnt need a vitali. And he would be the man. Period.

I think Vitali could. He had a real sloppy, brutal brawl with Lennox. But I guess there is the cut issue.

Wlad I don't think has the chin or the demeanor to slug it out like that, however.

Wlad is rubbish compared to Vitali. Vitali would beat him all over the ring. He would take one and land two and Wlad would cower in his corner.

That is a great champion? Not at all. Vitali is very good though.

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I stated Lewis considered retirement prior to the Vitali fight. Which is a 100% proven fact. You said this was nonsense and produced a quote from Manny Steward talking about Roy Jones in 2003.

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Saying he may think about retiring and actually doing it are 2 different things! Please post me the link in which lewis stated just before the VK fight that this would be his last ever fight! I never really heard much talk of lewis retiring in 03. The guy was linear champ and had just fought the mega fight with tyson.

It certainly wasn't an immediate retirement he was pondering and by the talk of he and his team he was on for another couple of years! By march 2003 there were 2 fights he and his team had in the pipeline! Tyson and Jones! Add the mandatory Kirk Johnson which he was scheduled to fight and that 3! Up steps VK on 11 days notice following Johnson pulling out and exit LL!

That was before that signed tyson rematch and before a Jones fight that manny and he were chasing! LL then goes onto promise a rematch in the ring due to the manner of the fight and crowd reaction so that's 3 fights in LL's immediate future by he & his teams own admission. Four in total that post date your link. That is not the talk of a retiring fighter. Four fights post dating your link!

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I couldn't careless about your personal opinion of Lewis. What happened after the Vitali fight is irrelevant

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It is the entire crux of the matter.

Why was he whining about tyson not rematching after a one sided first encounter yet agrees to give VK a rematch and doesn't? If he was seriously considering retirement why would manny be making statements like the Jones one? He wasn't retiring was he because he was fighting Johson a few months after your link? And i cant see him bowing out after a Kirk Johnson fight!! Your link stated he wanted the fights he could get up for! Well considering VK was hustling him on 11 days notice in a barn burner and in which he won on cuts (and let me add...looked very sheepish in the post fight interview after using the back of his gloves to aggravate the cut LOL) VK was the very fighter Lewis was whining about that he needed! The WBC then put him on the spot after months of lewis prevaricating with talk like ' I will bust him up' ' I will give him a rematch' etc and he retires rather than lose belt #2 favouring a tyson rematch! All very dodgy...

In the Lewis-Tyson post fight interview Lewis stated "I'm like fine wine, I get better with age"

In an interview right before the Vitali fight, Lewis said "I'm at the peak of my powers, I will keep fighting for many more years"

Anyway ive had my say and proved my point.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Wlad is rubbish compared to Vitali. Vitali would beat him all over the ring. He would take one and land two and Wlad would cower in his corner.

That is a great champion? Not at all. Vitali is very good though.

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How then has he reigned so long? I mean if Wladimir is such a poor fighter then certainly he shouldn't have a title much less all but 1 of them and even if he were to gain such titles he should immediately lose them should he not?


Wladimir has flaws, yes of course he does he's human....but he fights past those flaws and he is a GREAT heavyweight champion, there's 0 arguing it. The more you complain about his chin and his style and so on the better he looks because he hasn't been defeated in ages.

As for the dumb fuck who made the thread and some how used it in his hatred for K2 its clear he is confusing exciting fights with ability! As i stated Smokin Bert cooper was in numerous fights like the one in the OP. What does that prove? LOL.

Gatti/Ward anyone! Ward was B level at best.

If u want exciting HW fights then go watch:

-Brewster v Liakovich\Krasniqi

-VK v Sanders\Lewis

-Golota v Sanders/Bowe

-Maskaev v Rahman 1 & 2

-Byrd v Golota/Mcline

-Tua v Ibeaubuchi

Etc Because all of those are just as watchable as Norton v Holmes. K2 do not allow there opponents to do what norton did to holmes. They are too good.

Wlad has perfect textbook technique. Stance, movement, punches, etc..

Vitali is the tougher guy, but not "skilled" like Wlad.

When Wlad gets hit his reaction is to stop the other guys momentum, recover and then take control of the action.

When Vitali gets hit, his reaction is to exchange.

Wlad is an architect. Vitali is a wrecking ball. You will not see prime WK in a bust up. He is a master of his art not a caveman!

Also for the PPL mentioning Frank Bruno! Bruno was dumber than a fuckin doorknob! K2 are light years ahead of bruno in every aspect. He had the ring IQ of a lemming. Affable chap but shit boxer.

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

Also for the PPL mentioning Frank Bruno! Bruno was dumber than a fuckin doorknob! K2 are light years ahead of bruno in every aspect. He had the ring IQ of a lemming. Affable chap but shit boxer.

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Lol. Than a doorknob. Lol

Vlad and bruno are a bit robot like.
They are similar.
Both nice guys..both in superb condition come fight night..etc

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Originally Posted by imp

Vlad and bruno are a bit robot like.
They are similar.
Both nice guys..both in superb condition come fight night..etc

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Bruno's a tad more stiff in his upperbody movement and throwing punches....he always seemed tensed up to me. Once Wlad finds his rhythm he can settle in and throw some pretty fluid shots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by THE PHILOSOPHER

As for the dumb fuck who made the thread

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You are clearly the dumbest fuck of all, however, as your momma never taught you to converse wıth those you do not agree with in a gracious, altruistic, graceful manner. You are like a boor skipping his ass through the tulips. But you're still loved. :cool:

I do actually believe Vitali is a better craftsman than Wla. I'll explain what I mean. Vitali is more fluid in terms of what he does, not to be confused with fluidity of punching combinations and yes I to agree he looks robotic in the ring. He has better understanding of range and how to use it to avoid punches, a la his Roy Jones. He will also throw a left hook if he sees an opening where as Wlad will only throw it after a criteria has been met.

Wlad is faster in terms of hand speed and foot speed but Vitali doesn't need to move as fast because he's almost always where he wants to be. Wlad does punch harder but since Vitali is more fluid [again fluid in terms what he's thinking and what he applies in the ring, I know that he looks robotic] and sees more openings he tends to KO more of his opponents.

The ultimate question of who would win is perhaps...Wlad gets the earlier rounds because he's faster but Vitali comes stronger later on since counter punchers and pop shotters need a few rounds to time their opponent. So....if they were to fight 10 times I'd say 6-4 Vitali.

But all that said and done I think Vitali is just a BIT better, its not the difference between an elite and a paper belt holder. It's akin to Pryor and Arguello.

That's my two cents.

To me here's the thing Vitali has a fighter's instincts and Wladimir has worked hard to hone his skills. It doesn't mean 1 worked harder in the gym or that one is better than the other, it's just Vitali's abilities seem more natural and God given while Wladimir's seem to have been nurtured by Manny Steward so you get some indecisivness and some hesitation, but both guys are great fighters. With the thinking Wlad does he can also set traps and walk people into punches, Vitali does more pushing the defense to one side or the other and landing shots and Wlad will move the defense with his punches....jab to open up the hook, hook to open up the right cross, etc.

Fabulous! Be-Dazzled! 'Skipping my ass through the tulips' LOL.

Bloody queens!!

It's not my fault your thread failed! Again try these sugar tits:

-Brewster v Liakovich\Krasniqi

-VK v Sanders\Lewis

-Golota v Sanders/Bowe

-Maskaev v Rahman 1 & 2

-Byrd v Golota/Mcline

-Tua v Ibeaubuchi

-Adamek v Arreola

etc