BOXNATION - RED MIST - Cleverly v Kovalev Saturday Night Fight CHAT THREAD

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Originally Posted by armin

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Originally Posted by imp

The ref stopped the fight...then sat him down and let the fight carry on.

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Shoulda been stopped right there...I mean fuck you're in there with a dude who saddly tragically is part of an in the ring death, why fucking risk getting seriously injured.

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Never seen that before!

He stopped the fight..sat him down (whilst the other team are celebrating) and frank warren is standing up barking out orders!

So corrupt.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

John David Jackson has been good for Kovalev. Doesn't try to turn him into something he's not. Kovalev is a knock out fighter. And they go for the knock out

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Tremendous mind to have in a corner. I like that he boxes first and the power just rolls off. Very calculated with great punch variation all set up.

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Originally Posted by imp

The ref stopped the fight...then sat him down and let the fight carry on.

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Yup. His cockiness crawled up and bit him in the ass. It was my biggest fear for him going in.

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I'm disappointed with that performance. Cleverly just had no idea what to do and was flopping around like a fish. The commentator talks about granite chins, but a granite chinned fighter doesn't get stopped in 4. If anything Cleverly perhaps reminds me more of Enzo Mac rather than Joe Calzaghe. :-\

A terrible showing and you have a hard time seeing Cleverly doing all that much now that the chin has been checked.

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I think you have to give Kovalev a bit more credit. Yes Cleverly didn't box to plan but he was never going to be Joe. Kovalev is VERY good. Cleverlys dad is a dick.

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No, fair play to him and his power is clearly unpleasant, but Cleverly never really showed any gears or versatility. He started cautiously and as soon as he was hurt he lost it. He could have retreated and tried to survive the 3rd round and just clear his head, but instead he got himself brained and in boxing you have to have savvy otherwise you are just another number, which might well turn out to be the case. I just think it is such a shame.

It's sad that Cleverly is more Enzo Mac than Joe Calzaghe. He was utterly. Still, you are right Kovalev deserves his credit and though I don't think he can box especially well, he will fuck you up given the slightest sniff. If anything Hopkins should avoid this fight, but it would be fascinating to see if he can play the matador.

Anyone must be crazy to compare him to calzaghe.

JC would have been too quick and smart but who knows of the outcome.

Makes you appreciate JC as a boxer regardless of the fights he might have missed.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

John David Jackson has been good for Kovalev. Doesn't try to turn him into something he's not. Kovalev is a knock out fighter. And they go for the knock out

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Much better rounded then I thought he would be based on what I had seen previously.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

I'm just glad you cunts that kept comparing him with Calzaghe can now shut the fuck up.

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In terms of the output and combinations, there were comparisons. However, Calzaghe really had a great chin and was much more versatile, intelligent and savvy. Only Calzaghe can ever be Calzaghe. He was the best SMW of all time.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I'm disappointed with that performance. Cleverly just had no idea what to do and was flopping around like a fish. The commentator talks about granite chins, but a granite chinned fighter doesn't get stopped in 4. If anything Cleverly perhaps reminds me more of Enzo Mac rather than Joe Calzaghe. :-\

A terrible showing and you have a hard time seeing Cleverly doing all that much now that the chin has been checked.

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I think you have to give Kovalev a bit more credit. Yes Cleverly didn't box to plan but he was never going to be Joe. Kovalev is VERY good. Cleverlys dad is a dick.

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No, fair play to him and his power is clearly unpleasant, but Cleverly never really showed any gears or versatility. He started cautiously and as soon as he was hurt he lost it. He could have retreated and tried to survive the 3rd round and just clear his head, but instead he got himself brained and in boxing you have to have savvy otherwise you are just another number, which might well turn out to be the case. I just think it is such a shame.

It's sad that Cleverly is more Enzo Mac than Joe Calzaghe. He was utterly. Still, you are right Kovalev deserves his credit and though I don't think he can box especially well, he will fuck you up given the slightest sniff. If anything Hopkins should avoid this fight, but it would be fascinating to see if he can play the matador.

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What makes you say he can't box well??? Granted all his fights almost end up by ko within three, but he rarely looses a round actually. He's not a crude brawler and say what you want that clev wasn't himself or some shit he not only got kod he got outboxed and outworked.

Game plan - just keep your hands up, let him hit you, he's never gone past 8 and will fold.

Bernard Hopkins said about Cleverly - he doesn't understand defense, he just blocks punches with his arms. Respect.

Adonis stevenson
Andre ward
Hopkins.

These are the opponents that he needs to fight next...hopefully chad dawson can bounce back..

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Game plan - just keep your hands up, let him hit you, he's never gone past 8 and will fold.

Bernard Hopkins said about Cleverly - he doesn't understand defense, he just blocks punches with his arms. Respect.

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Issue is when ya punch like kovalev it don't matter if the dude has his hands up, in the first round his hand were up yet his had was still snapping back.

Haha just actually got what ya sayin

Who was saying that FROCH would loose to cleverly?

Fuck the stepping stones, Kovalev vs Ward now.

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Originally Posted by imp

Anyone must be crazy to compare him to calzaghe.

JC would have been too quick and smart but who knows of the outcome.

Makes you appreciate JC as a boxer regardless of the fights he might have missed.

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Kovalev would need to be 40 years old before Calzaghe gets in the ring with him

Not that it would have made a difference tonight, but for his future career Clev needs a proper trainer.

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Originally Posted by armin

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Game plan - just keep your hands up, let him hit you, he's never gone past 8 and will fold.

Bernard Hopkins said about Cleverly - he doesn't understand defense, he just blocks punches with his arms. Respect.

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Issue is when ya punch like kovalev it don't matter if the dude has his hands up, in the first round his hand were up yet his had was still snapping back.

Haha just actually got what ya sayin

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No I'm saying Clev's team gameplan was stupid. Cleverly was barely throwing a punch, which is not the norm, because they thought get Kov in the later rounds and they'll beat him. But Cleverly has NEVER been hard to hit so just turned into a punch bag

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Originally Posted by armin

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Greenbeanz

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I'm disappointed with that performance. Cleverly just had no idea what to do and was flopping around like a fish. The commentator talks about granite chins, but a granite chinned fighter doesn't get stopped in 4. If anything Cleverly perhaps reminds me more of Enzo Mac rather than Joe Calzaghe. :-\

A terrible showing and you have a hard time seeing Cleverly doing all that much now that the chin has been checked.

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I think you have to give Kovalev a bit more credit. Yes Cleverly didn't box to plan but he was never going to be Joe. Kovalev is VERY good. Cleverlys dad is a dick.

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No, fair play to him and his power is clearly unpleasant, but Cleverly never really showed any gears or versatility. He started cautiously and as soon as he was hurt he lost it. He could have retreated and tried to survive the 3rd round and just clear his head, but instead he got himself brained and in boxing you have to have savvy otherwise you are just another number, which might well turn out to be the case. I just think it is such a shame.

It's sad that Cleverly is more Enzo Mac than Joe Calzaghe. He was utterly. Still, you are right Kovalev deserves his credit and though I don't think he can box especially well, he will fuck you up given the slightest sniff. If anything Hopkins should avoid this fight, but it would be fascinating to see if he can play the matador.

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What makes you say he can't box well??? Granted all his fights almost end up by ko within three, but he rarely looses a round actually. He's not a crude brawler and say what you want that clev wasn't himself or some shit he not only got kod he got outboxed and outworked.

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From what I have seen, he is a heavy handed fighter, but I haven't seen a skillset that particularly stands out. He isn't exactly Peter Manfredo in terms of skills, but I am not exactly seeing Floyd Mayweather either. He is clearly a decent fighter, but my perception is that he seems like someone who can be outboxed. His footwork isn't great, is heavy handed and searches for the KO and I think a clever boxer can use that against him and moreso if you can take him into the deep rounds without taking too much.

Cleverly didn't fight a smart fight and that is obvious. In saying that there are fighters who would give Kovalev more difficult stylistic issues and Hopkins is an obvious case in point. I can see movement, potshotting and clinching (which is what Hopkins loves best) causing Kovalev headaches. Even now I prefer Cleverly's style against Hopkins rather than that of Kovalev.

I respect Cleverly for taking the fight.

But I'd also like to allow all the ones who called Kovalev "an American hype job" or a one dimensional puncher who is only pushed by NBC etc etc a moment to eat their words.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by imp

Anyone must be crazy to compare him to calzaghe.

JC would have been too quick and smart but who knows of the outcome.

Makes you appreciate JC as a boxer regardless of the fights he might have missed.

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Kovalev would need to be 40 years old before Calzaghe gets in the ring with him

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Calzaghe would still be toying with him now.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by armin

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Game plan - just keep your hands up, let him hit you, he's never gone past 8 and will fold.

Bernard Hopkins said about Cleverly - he doesn't understand defense, he just blocks punches with his arms. Respect.

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Issue is when ya punch like kovalev it don't matter if the dude has his hands up, in the first round his hand were up yet his had was still snapping back.

Haha just actually got what ya sayin

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No I'm saying Clev's team gameplan was stupid. Cleverly was barely throwing a punch, which is not the norm, because they thought get Kov in the later rounds and they'll beat him. But Cleverly has NEVER been hard to hit so just turned into a punch bag

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Yep. Cleverly was never going to be one that could intelligently give a guy a few rounds. There is a difference between standing off and being a punch bag.

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Originally Posted by Violent Demise

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Originally Posted by imp

Anyone must be crazy to compare him to calzaghe.

JC would have been too quick and smart but who knows of the outcome.

Makes you appreciate JC as a boxer regardless of the fights he might have missed.

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Kovalev would need to be 40 years old before Calzaghe gets in the ring with him

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Its a shame calzaghe gets that abuse but some of it is warranted.

Either way, kovalev is not exactly the finished article and has alot to learn with other aspects of his game..power isnt one of them.

Cleverly has been a knockout waiting to happen, but it sounds like Kovalev looked really good. I amvlooking forward to seeing the fight.

Kovalev is the real deal, Cleverly has a good chin but Kovalev must punch like a MONSTER,
one more very dangers Eastern block fighter.!
Trouble is who will want to fight Kovalev, can't see many lining up to face him a beast.

I hope Stevenson beats Cloud, JUST so Stevenson-Kovalev could happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uGtkCe9-2M

The insight of Roy Jones in the 3rd...."only the right of Kovalev has effect right now, everything else he throws is dead" :-X. Just aired the replay. That was power boxing 101. Clev looked psyched out from the opening bell. Brutal!

The fight was stopped just before the bell at the end of the third. There should never have been a fourth round, I can't think of another fight with two stoppages. Clev could had been hurt in the fourth a real possibility given the state he was in.

The stoppage was made at the right time. Clev looked poor reliant on his chin too much. Kovalev was smart creating the room to throw his bombs to destroy Cleverly.

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Originally Posted by VG_Addict

I hope Stevenson beats Cloud, JUST so Stevenson-Kovalev could happen.

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This would be interesting but I don’t think Stevenson chin would hold up, I rather prefer Froch vs. Kovalev to happen.

At first, I thought Cleverly had the right idea - pop the jab, keep the hands up high and move backwards. Unfortunately for him, he couldn't stay out of punching range. Even when he was on the defensive, Kovalev could always reach him.

Ideally, Cleverly would have concentrated on jabs and body shots, while staying away and forcing Kovalev to follow him around and expend some energy by missing his power-shots. Kovalev has never been dragged into deep waters and any success Cleverly could have would have been over the second half of the fight. He just wasn't capable though and even the shots he was blocking were having an effect.

I was surprised Cleverly took this fight because Kovalev looked like a monster and, truth be told, it looked like man vs boy in there.

http://http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sp...o-back-5748096

Just watched this fight now,and i could tell after round 1 Cleverly was going to get stopped.

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Originally Posted by Chomsky Acolyte

At first, I thought Cleverly had the right idea - pop the jab, keep the hands up high and move backwards. Unfortunately for him, he couldn't stay out of punching range. Even when he was on the defensive, Kovalev could always reach him.

Ideally, Cleverly would have concentrated on jabs and body shots, while staying away and forcing Kovalev to follow him around and expend some energy by missing his power-shots. Kovalev has never been dragged into deep waters and any success Cleverly could have would have been over the second half of the fight. He just wasn't capable though and even the shots he was blocking were having an effect.

I was surprised Cleverly took this fight because Kovalev looked like a monster and, truth be told, it looked like man vs boy in there.

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Very true. Just seemed Cleverly was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Moving out Kovalev does these subtle half steps to close you down and no matter blocking or not Clev was being jarred. In another prediction thread I said 'Kovalev was going to punch holes through this kid', just didn't think it would be right outta the gate like that. Liked that Cleverly stepped to the plate and took him on though. His people and camp just got way ahead of themselves in chatting it up and honestly thought he was just a crude brawler.

Just watched the fight. Kovalev isn't very fast, but he has very good timing and he obviously hits very hard. He reminds me of a slower, more heavy-handed Kessler.

Cleverly still has no defense and he never has never shown any improvement in that area (probably because he has been fighting cab drivers to this point has never had to get work on anything). This was awful match-making. A guy with no power and no defense against a very hard puncher.

Kovalev is a badass and just proved it again. Awesome display. I was surprised a bit that he didn't have to walk Clev down like o thought he would have to, Clev was just there. I liked the fact that he stayed busy behind his jab, it's going to be hard to pitter pat and dance around him with his jab going like that. That said, when he mixed in that right hand lead, it was a like a bomb went off on Cleverly, and that's when he was able to attack smart. Hes got such heavy hands, not quite Golovkin like I don't think but peobably close. Him and Cloud would be awesome.

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Originally Posted by CFH

Just watched the fight. Kovalev is very fast, but he has very good timing and he obviously hits very hard. He reminds me of a slower, more heavy-handed Kessler.

Cleverly still has no defense and he never has never shown any improvement in that area (probably because he has been fighting cab drivers to this point has never had to get work on anything). This was awful match-making. A guy with no power and no defense against a very hard puncher.

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I like the Kessler comparison, but with Kessler being lighter on his feet.

Clev is no better defensively than he was in his 5th pro fight and you're right that it's in part because he has fought nobodies and so hasn't needed to learn/had learnt to trust his chin far too much. Also though I really really feel he needs a new trainer. A good trainer will be honing that defense as a top priority.

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by CFH

Just watched the fight. Kovalev is very fast, but he has very good timing and he obviously hits very hard. He reminds me of a slower, more heavy-handed Kessler.

Cleverly still has no defense and he never has never shown any improvement in that area (probably because he has been fighting cab drivers to this point has never had to get work on anything). This was awful match-making. A guy with no power and no defense against a very hard puncher.

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I like the Kessler comparison, but with Kessler being lighter on his feet.

Clev is no better defensively than he was in his 5th pro fight and you're right that it's in part because he has fought nobodies and so hasn't needed to learn/had learnt to trust his chin far too much. Also though I really really feel he needs a new trainer. A good trainer will be honing that defense as a top priority.

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Yeah, I meant to say that Kovalev isn't very fast... in my original post.

I would be surprised if Cleverly ever beats a world class fighter, his style is completely unfitting of someone who can't take it.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

I would be surprised if Cleverly ever beats a world class fighter, his style is completely unfitting of someone who can't take it.

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He fights stupid. He's become habitual. I like the kid but as we have talked about before his greatest weakness is this almost subconscious need to please and excite the crowd rather then winning the dam fight. Cleverly fought the dumbest fight I have ever seen him fight against his most dangerous opponent. I actually believed foolishly that this fight would be when he put on a show. He never even tried to use the ring. He instead once again because of his bravado, arrogance and cockiness attempted to hook with a hooker and prove he could take his shots. He's been fighting that way since the first time I watched him on guru and it even seemed to increase post Murat. Not trying to take anything away from Kovalev as he is a much better technician then I thought he was especially his sneaky footwork.

Cleverly went into the fight thinking he could outbox Kovalev but found out Kovalev is a better boxer than he is. He felt Kovalev's power in the first minute and was just trying to survive after that. It wasn't that he didn't want to throw punches, he did, he was just terrified of leaving himself open for what was coming back the other way.

I liked Kovalev's reaction to getting his anthem booed after he won.

http://www.boxingscene.com/uploads/6...valev-flip.jpg

http://www.boxingscene.com/uploads/6...valev-flip.jpg