Chickie Ferrera >Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
If it was anybody else that we were fighting, they would have never stopped it.
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Chickie Ferrera >Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
If it was anybody else that we were fighting, they would have never stopped it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomChickie Ferrera >Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
If it was anybody else that we were fighting, they would have never stopped it.
You really are to much. I invite you to FAST FORWARD to say 3:30 and then witness what unfolds. That is the trouble with you clinical obsessive type regardless of cause. You repeat the same bullshit so many times that you actually genuinely believe it. Its called "sincere delusion"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJl5hmxOqvg
see; Chickie Ferrera
> Alan King >
"I have Ron Lyle ahead. No doubt. Ali came back and did some damage in the middle rounds > 6, 7 and 8. But yes, I have Lyle ahead Howard."
Alan King .......... A Good and Honest Man.
Ali beat some top fighters after he beat Foreman. Lyle went life and death with Foreman.
Ali was amazing.
Why can't you see Bill?
Why?
Why?
Muhammad AliQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Fact > George Foreman beat himself, and lost.
Fact > Ron Lyle was an old-and-slow guy, who was coming off an embarrassing loss to Jimmy Young.
Fact > Muhammad Ali was amazingly durable, and could absorb punches like nobody's business.
Fact > I can see.
Why > Because it has to be said.
Foreman beat himself? Ali was just there and had nothing to do with it? Joker.
Oh, come on Master.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was Roy 'Tiger' Williams who showed Cassius how to lay on the Ropes and ride with the punches
in Kinshasa, Zaire.
Roy 'Tiger' Williams >
"I told Cassius. Let the 'Big Oaf' punch himself out. He'll be sucking heavy air by the 5th Round. You won't even have to hit him. He'll fall all by himself a few Rounds later."
Williams was not in the ring taking the punches from Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomOh, come on Master.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was Roy 'Tiger' Williams who showed Cassius how to lay on the Ropes and ride with the punches
in Kinshasa, Zaire.
Roy 'Tiger' Williams >
"I told Cassius. Let the 'Big Oaf' punch himself out. He'll be sucking heavy air by the 5th Round. You won't even have to hit him. He'll fall all by himself a few Rounds later."
We all know the stories,the draft, the exile, the religion and on and on. I admired Ali even though I was a Marine grunt during Vietnam. There is one question I have to ask all of you. Let's just say that all was resolved and forgiven, how much of his prime would really shock us as far as his ability was supposed to be? Many people say that he was in his prime when this mess started with the draft but I am not wondering if he was in his prime because I believed he never reached it. How much better could he have been and those of you with a boxing background know exactly what I mean. For what he accomplished, he intrigued many but he was deprived so what if he was allowed to reach his prime how much better than those all time greats could he have become or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsebastianmiran
Two things to derive from the bolded statement:
1. You're fairly up there in age.
2. You of all people could've been forgiven for holding Ali's beliefs against him, but you don't. Good for you for being an open-minded person.
As for the rest of the post, that is a very good and interesting question. Just yesterday they had a segment on ESPN where they were theorizing on just how many more stats baseball players like Ted Williams and Willie Mays would've amassed had they not lost years of peak performance while serving in the Armed Forces. Part of the Veterans Day coverage, I guess. Personally, I think the Ali that resumed his career after serving his time away from boxing was noticeably different than the Ali previous to that. You're right... he was never allowed to reach his peak. He was still developing as a professional fighter when his career was abruptly interrupted. Once he came back, he was a different fighter.
He had less of the movement that had served him well against Liston. He also became more dependent on his "moving the head back" defense. I think he actually overdid it at times, because # 1 it didn't always work, and # 2 because it left him open for all kinds of body shots. When younger he could spring back mongoose-like and convert the "move the head back" into an offensive shot of his own. When older, he couldn't do that as much. He was bigger when he came back, so there was a tendency to sit more on his punches and rely on his power, which was never all that much to begin with.
There's no telling either way, but it's not far-fetched to think he could've handled Joe Frazier with relative ease, even in their first fight, had he not had that time off from boxing.
Ali would have beaten Frazier earlier and there would not have been the same intense rivalry. Ali would have more title defences and Ali probably would have slipped and lost to Norton and then fought Big George for the title in Zaire. Ali may have retired earlier as well.
The time stream would go back to normal.
At the rate Ali was fighting if he had not gone gotten suspended from boxing he would easily have fought to six or seven more times from 1967 until 1970 period six or seven more good fight would have put more wear and tear on him. This means that by the time George Foreman was ready to fight for the title Ali would not have been able to withstand that kind of a brute force.
You would be amazed by the endurance and courage Ali had.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Thanks for your responses on Ali and I believe we agree totally and with what I don't usually deal with, the what if's but this fun guys, being fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsebastianmiran
We were deprived of seeing the best of Muhammad Ali sadly BUT What we did see far overshadows any other fighter I have ever seen
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou would be amazed by the endurance and courage Ali had.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Did you ever see what Sonny Liston said about Clay in their first fight?????
" They told me that boy couldn't punch... They lied "
Ali can only punch if he got that certain angle on youQuote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou would be amazed by the endurance and courage Ali had.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Did you ever see what Sonny Liston said about Clay in their first fight?????
" They told me that boy couldn't punch... They lied "
Come on.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterWilliams was not in the ring taking the punches from Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomOh, come on Master.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
It was Roy 'Tiger' Williams who showed Cassius how to lay on the Ropes and ride with the punches
in Kinshasa, Zaire.
Roy 'Tiger' Williams >
"I told Cassius. Let the 'Big Oaf' punch himself out. He'll be sucking heavy air by the 5th Round. You won't even have to hit him. He'll fall all by himself a few Rounds later."
Look what that 'dangerous' punching Ali did with Rudi Lubbers ...............:D
Punch, my Ass.
Ali knocked out Foreman, no one else in history could do it.
Big George exhausted himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
He could have been knocked over by an African Horse Fly at that point in the bout.
That point is, Ali was the one who made Foreman exhaust himself. No one else could do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomBig George exhausted himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
He could have been knocked over by an African Horse Fly at that point in the bout.
And the "World's Most Patient and Persistent Person Award" for 2015 goes to...........
https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.qrz.c..._trophy_1_.gif
@Master !!!!!!!!!
:appl:
:beerchug:
:club:
Muhammad Ali {1976}
After being told that he was 'slurring' his words.
"You are a white racist. That is how all us N*****'s speak. You hate N******'s."
The end product or Ali's wonderful influence on boxing....Adrien Broner! Hell, I wouldn't have wanted to miss that for anything, sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedThe end product or Ali's wonderful influence on boxing....Adrien Broner! Hell, I wouldn't have wanted to miss that for anything, sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
LMAO! So now Broner is Ali's fault. :rolleyes:
Now I've heard everything........
But wait a minute....... doesn't Broner model himself after TBE? ;)
You are better than that mate, that was stretching it to blame Ali for that. Even Bill was embarrassed for you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedThe end product or Ali's wonderful influence on boxing....Adrien Broner! Hell, I wouldn't have wanted to miss that for anything, sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou are better than that mate, that was stretching it to blame Ali for that. Even Bill was embarrassed for you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedThe end product or Ali's wonderful influence on boxing....Adrien Broner! Hell, I wouldn't have wanted to miss that for anything, sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Thank You Mister Master
No, No. Don't get up. There is no need to.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...AFCbxyyoNEZ8na
Keep those blinders on and see it anyway you want, sir! Think about it before you dismiss it though, if you can. 😳Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedThe end product or Ali's wonderful influence on boxing....Adrien Broner! Hell, I wouldn't have wanted to miss that for anything, sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
LMAO! So now Broner is Ali's fault. :rolleyes:
Now I've heard everything........
But wait a minute....... doesn't Broner model himself after TBE? ;)
I doubt Bill pays much attention to what I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou are better than that mate, that was stretching it to blame Ali for that. Even Bill was embarrassed for you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedThe end product or Ali's wonderful influence on boxing....Adrien Broner! Hell, I wouldn't have wanted to miss that for anything, sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedI doubt Bill pays much attention to what I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou are better than that mate, that was stretching it to blame Ali for that. Even Bill was embarrassed for you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedThe end product or Ali's wonderful influence on boxing....Adrien Broner! Hell, I wouldn't have wanted to miss that for anything, sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I enjoy your posts............... You are quite witty at times.
Birds of a feather stick together.
I heard the same thing about Mods and old timers, sir.;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
I want to, honest, but I'm not going to argue with you! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill PaxtomQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedI doubt Bill pays much attention to what I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou are better than that mate, that was stretching it to blame Ali for that. Even Bill was embarrassed for you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedThe end product or Ali's wonderful influence on boxing....Adrien Broner! Hell, I wouldn't have wanted to miss that for anything, sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I enjoy your posts............... You are quite witty at times.
Do not listen to him @beenKOed Bill is trying to butter you up.
You are never witty in your posts. :)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/rende...?defid=1495787Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Bill loves @beenKOed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Bill finally found love I'm happy for him I hope they'll be very happy together LOL
'Hippie Clay'
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...60wv3fwxFu6NJU
Caught a little of that Facing Ali TV doc again, since I missed some parts last time.
You know, putting aside Ali's polarizing personality, I can't blame him too much for refusing the draft. He wasn't the only black American during those times that resented being asked to fight a war for a country that treated blacks like inferior beings during those times. He was hardly alone in that sentiment.
Think about it. You living in a time and a country where you can't ride in the front of the bus (or in the bus at all)... you can't go into certain restaurants.... you have separate water fountains.... you get called "nigg__" every day.... in some parts of the States you run the risk of getting lynched simply by being black. And then you're supposed to go running to your draft board for the chance to get flown to Vietnam to shoot North Vietnamese who are posing no danger to the U.S.?? I'm sorry... but I can't say I'd think much different if it was me.
Had Ali not been such an offensive person toward Frazier and other opponents.... and had he not had that polarizing personality so many people found offensive... I'd bet he would've made a lot more people think about this particular issue.
Ali called Frazier and a few others Uncle Tom, a term meaning a black man excessively obedient and submissive to the white man. A lot of that probably came from his anger at seeing how other blacks, maybe including Frazier, seemed to have no problems with the prejudice and restrictions white society placed on the blacks. Again, it's hard to walk in another man's shoes unless you've been in similar situations, but... I can see why he'd be resentful toward what he considered to be submissive blacks.
Speaking for myself, I thank God I wasn't born black in the States during the 50's and 60's. I probably would've been dead by now.... as I don't tend to accept things like prejudice easily. And although I consider myself a peace-loving citizen.... I probably would've sympathized with the militant blacks who sought equality by force.
Again..... this is aside from the "Ali was a disrespectful prick" arguments and whatnot. This is just a point on his refusal to be drafted, and the subsequent stripping of his title.
I liked the documentary, because it went through his meaningful opponents one by one. I enjoyed seeing that bit on Chuvalo.... didn't realize the hell he had gone through in his personal life (sons dying from OD's..... wife committed suicide). Chuvalo was one tough dude. Even at the time of the doc filming, he still looks pretty fit. I saw how Ali objected to Ernie Terrell continuing to call him Clay, to the point where during the fight Ali kept asking Terrell, "What's my name?". If you didn't have the background info on that, you'd think Ali was just being an ass during the fight.
Ali was just being an ass during the fight.