Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Dane
Being in the states and having actually watched the HBO broadcast, it's clear to me that HBO has absolutely no interest in a Calzaghe-Kessler fight. HBO did not showcase the Kessler-Beyer fight--they showed a 2-second clip of the KO, before going on to say that Kessler would be mere icing on the cake, but that Joe needs to fight Hopkins or Wright to answer the question of whether he's a GREAT fighter, as opposed to just a very good fighter. Kellerman and Lampley both said that beating Kessler would not prove anything about greatness.
I have to say, I tend to agree. Despite Hopkins' age, he's still ranked higher P4P than Calzaghe is (as is Wright), and is coming off of a dominating performance against Tarver; Kessler is not on anyone's P4P list. I'm not saying that Kessler's pure hype--I've never seen his fights--but he indisputably does not have a resume approaching future HOFers Wright and Hopkins, and beating him would not be anywhere near as meaningful (or lucrative) as beating either of those two.
To me this seems like the US has NO prospect at SMW any more so there determined to rubbish the Europeans. I mean c'mon Kessler would not add to Calzaghe's greatness ??? Holding all 4 major belts in a division is unheard of these days. It seems they know absolute zilch about Kessler in the first place to be honest. If I was Calzaghe and beat Kessler, i'd think fuck America, IM the undisputed champ let them come and get me. HBO's attitude really pisses me off, not showing a unification bout just cus its involves Europeans really disgusts me.
Kessler has a few disadvantages - his manager (Mogens Palle) stinks and has been succesfull spoiling many talents. Basicly Palle´s last succes was Ayub Kalule 30 years ago. And Kessler dosn´t bring a lot of commercial hype coming from a small country. But if you havn´t seen his fights you wouldn´t qualify as an expert ;)
As I see it the "meaning of boxing" is about beating the best. And right now Calzaghe and Kessler are the best!
But you seem to be right in the sense that Calzaghe obviously doesn´t want to end his career meeting Kessler in his next match. So we probably have to wait 1-2 years and then Calzaghe wont have a chance in hell. Sad but true...
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Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Scrap everything after disgusts me, dont know how that happened ;D
Anyway prime example would be (if true, dont know much other than what ive heard on this forum) the planned fight between Witter and Hopkins being shown on HBO. 2 minor players (oh wait ones American) compared to 2 champs.
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-hit Wonder
Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Dane
Being in the states and having actually watched the HBO broadcast, it's clear to me that HBO has absolutely no interest in a Calzaghe-Kessler fight. HBO did not showcase the Kessler-Beyer fight--they showed a 2-second clip of the KO, before going on to say that Kessler would be mere icing on the cake, but that Joe needs to fight Hopkins or Wright to answer the question of whether he's a GREAT fighter, as opposed to just a very good fighter. Kellerman and Lampley both said that beating Kessler would not prove anything about greatness.
I have to say, I tend to agree. Despite Hopkins' age, he's still ranked higher P4P than Calzaghe is (as is Wright), and is coming off of a dominating performance against Tarver; Kessler is not on anyone's P4P list. I'm not saying that Kessler's pure hype--I've never seen his fights--but he indisputably does not have a resume approaching future HOFers Wright and Hopkins, and beating him would not be anywhere near as meaningful (or lucrative) as beating either of those two.
To me this seems like the US has NO prospect at SMW any more so there determined to rubbish the Europeans. I mean c'mon Kessler would not add to Calzaghe's greatness ??? Holding all 4 major belts in a division is unheard of these days. It seems they know absolute zilch about Kessler in the first place to be honest. If I was Calzaghe and beat Kessler, i'd think fuck America, IM the undisputed champ let them come and get me. HBO's attitude really pisses me off, not showing a unification bout just cus its involves Europeans really disgusts me.
Kessler has a few disadvantages - his manager (Mogens Palle) stinks and has been succesfull spoiling many talents. Basicly Palle´s last succes was Ayub Kalule 30 years ago. And Kessler dosn´t bring a lot of commercial hype coming from a small country. But if you havn´t seen his fights you wouldn´t qualify as an expert ;)
As I see it the "meaning of boxing" is about beating the best. And right now Calzaghe and Kessler are the best!
But you seem to be right in the sense that Calzaghe obviously doesn´t want to end his career meeting Kessler in his next match. So we probably have to wait 1-2 years and then Calzaghe wont have a chance in hell. Sad but true...
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I wouldn't say the US has no prospects at SMW, *enter Allen Green*
Best fight for Calzaghe @ this point
1) Mikkel Kessler (Danish) without question, unify the clans both undefeated
2) Carl Froch (British) I don't care what you say, I would love to see this fight
3) Robert Stieglitz (German), this is his mandatory also undefeated.
4) Glen Johnson (Jamaican), I was really let down when Joe hurt himself and cancelled, I think it would have been a great fight.
Even though he lost to Woods, he looked good.
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Never seen Beyer until he fought Kessler. In that fight Beyer was a sitting target, He no head movement at all, no slipping punches? am I missing something? Kessler looked great don't get me wrong but he was fighting a guy who would not slip a punch. and was slow as Molasses . Beyer had a big target on his chin and invited Kessler to hit it ? watch the fight mate and tell me what you think? maybe Beyer just had an off night. but damn. I don't know ?
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Kessler isn't ready for Calzaghe.
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
I don't want to say anything on this thread because I will be labeled the stereptypical American-Calzaghe-naysayer. Well, but I am a Calzaghe naysayer..don't like him, never have. I refuse to give him credit even when logic says I should. I capitalize on the the fact that I feel he hasn't fought any elite fighters and ignore what he has done positive against who he has fought. I think Lacy would beat him in a rematch. I think Kessler would destroy him. I think calzaghe is a wuss who is peeing his pants at the mere thought of getting into the ring with Hopkins, or Kessler, or whoever else is being mentioned. If Calzaghe fought and beat (whatever your interpretation/belief of) God I wouldn't give him credit. I would say God was having a bad day. Then I would say that Calzaghe is a bum.
Just because..
I am your typical american-calzaghe-naysayer who wouldn't give him an ounce of credit if he re-invented the light bulb.
And you know what's true? I wouldn't. Why?
Because he's a bum.
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Maybe Kessler aint but woudnt you rather see two champs battle it out rather than a for a rare 4 belt unification, woth of which are pretty handy and have a clear champ, than say fight a retired Hopkins whcih even if he won there would be so many doubts (too old, Hopkins wouda battered him earlier in career ect.) If Joe were to unify all 4 belts he could call out the likes of Taylor which i would really like to see.
Isnt it amazing how SMW has gone from a dry boring division to the most talked about in boxing in less than a year ;D
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasamm
I don't want to say anything on this thread because I will be labeled the stereptypical American-Calzaghe-naysayer. Well, but I am a Calzaghe naysayer..don't like him, never have. I refuse to give him credit even when logic says I should. I capitalize on the the fact that I feel he hasn't fought any elite fighters and ignore what he has done positive against who he has fought. I think Lacy would beat him in a rematch. I think Kessler would destroy him. I think calzaghe is a wuss who is peeing his pants at the mere thought of getting into the ring with Hopkins, or Kessler, or whoever else is being mentioned. If Calzaghe fought and beat (whatever your interpretation/belief of) God I wouldn't give him credit. I would say God was having a bad day. Then I would say that Calzaghe is a bum.
Just because..
I am your typical american-calzaghe-naysayer who wouldn't give him an ounce of credit if he re-invented the light bulb.
And you know what's true? I wouldn't. Why?
Because he's a bum.
Your right you are a typical American naysayer, give the man some respect at least. Lacy would beat Joe C in a rematch is based on what exactly. He got his arse throughly handed to him. Only thing in Lacy's credit is he was a man and battled to the end.
But then there was a rematch you'd probably say "Joe's a bum, fducking the big guys by fighting a guy he dominated completely"
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Kessler isn't ready for Calzaghe.
Hold-up, what would Kessler have to do to be ready for Calzaghe?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-hit Wonder
Maybe Kessler aint but woudnt you rather see two champs battle it out rather than a for a rare 4 belt unification, woth of which are pretty handy and have a clear champ, than say fight a retired Hopkins whcih even if he won there would be so many doubts (too old, Hopkins wouda battered him earlier in career ect.) If Joe were to unify all 4 belts he could call out the likes of Taylor which i would really like to see.
Isnt it amazing how SMW has gone from a dry boring division to the most talked about in boxing in less than a year ;D
I'd say the most talked about this year would still have to be the Welter's, just not this week.
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Kessler isn't ready for Calzaghe.
Hold-up, what would Kessler have to do to be ready for Calzaghe?
Beat Lacy
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasamm
I don't want to say anything on this thread because I will be labeled the stereptypical American-Calzaghe-naysayer. Well, but I am a Calzaghe naysayer..don't like him, never have. I refuse to give him credit even when logic says I should. I capitalize on the the fact that I feel he hasn't fought any elite fighters and ignore what he has done positive against who he has fought. I think Lacy would beat him in a rematch. I think Kessler would destroy him. I think calzaghe is a wuss who is peeing his pants at the mere thought of getting into the ring with Hopkins, or Kessler, or whoever else is being mentioned. If Calzaghe fought and beat (whatever your interpretation/belief of) God I wouldn't give him credit. I would say God was having a bad day. Then I would say that Calzaghe is a bum.
Just because..
I am your typical american-calzaghe-naysayer who wouldn't give him an ounce of credit if he re-invented the light bulb.
And you know what's true? I wouldn't. Why?
Because he's a bum.
No man how you going to say all that brother? Lacy at the time looked like the most dangerous fighter out there. He is built like a truck and is huge power puncher. Calzaghe was foaming at the mouth to get at him, . I agree up until the Lacy fight , Joe had fought only moderate opposition, but when he handed my man Lacy that ass whooping I got respect for Joe. and you should too.
How you going to call the man bum? Honestly .
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-hit Wonder
Scrap everything after disgusts me, dont know how that happened ;D
Anyway prime example would be (if true, dont know much other than what ive heard on this forum) the planned fight between Witter and Hopkins being shown on HBO. 2 minor players (oh wait ones American) compared to 2 champs.
This is wrong in numerous ways:
1. There is no planned fight between Witter and Hopkins. Hopkins will not come out of retirement to fight a small-time fighter like Witter. It will take a HW championship or $20M to get him to fight again.
2. Hopkins--the HOFer and arguably #1 fighter of the past decade--is a "minor player"? As compared to Mikkel Kessler?? Ridiculous.
3. Also, Hopkins is a champion--the undisputed linear champion of the LHW division. Kessler is not a "champ" in any meaningful way (i.e., if you believe, reasonably, that there is only one true champion, maximum, per weight class)--he merely holds two alphabet straps. Calzaghe is the undisputed linear champ of the SMW division.
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majesty
Kessler isn't ready for Calzaghe.
Hold-up, what would Kessler have to do to be ready for Calzaghe?
Beat Lacy
I wouldn't mind seeing Lacy - Kessler, however..............
FACT: Calzaghe gave Bika a shot
FACT: Kessler has the rest of the belts
FACT: Kessler is undefeated
FACT: Kessler has a much better record than anyone Joe has fought in the past (yep even Lacy)
FACT: Kessler has NEVER been knocked down, Joe has twice
FACT: Kessler has 25 fights since 2000 Calzaghe has 15 since 2000
FACT: Kessler has a 76.3% KO rate, Calzaghe has a 73.8% KO rate
for me all signs point to that being a great match-up, I even give the edge to Kessler for the following reasons
1) Kessler looked brilliant against Beyer, dominating and put him away convincingly.
2) Calzaghe looked like ass against Bika, yes he won, but it was ugly.
3) Calzaghe's hands are brittle at this point.
I see nothing that shows Kessler is not ready for Calzaghe. I don't buy the hasn't fought against Lacy argument.
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Shazza i meant Demetrius Hopkins (sorry knew i should have put the D in front can get kind of confusing) fighting Witter for the WBC light welter belt on HBO.
Re: Joe Calzaghe vs Mikkel Kessler
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-hit Wonder
To me this seems like the US has NO prospect at SMW any more so there determined to rubbish the Europeans. I mean c'mon Kessler would not add to Calzaghe's greatness ??? Holding all 4 major belts in a division is unheard of these days. It seems they know absolute zilch about Kessler in the first place to be honest. If I was Calzaghe and beat Kessler, i'd think fuck America, IM the undisputed champ let them come and get me. HBO's attitude really pisses me off, not showing a unification bout just cus its involves Europeans really disgusts me.
Their point was that, while Kessler seems to be a good boxer, he has not proven himself to be great. Not his fault, of course--he's like 25 years old and from a small country. Nonetheless, you can't prove that you're not merely very good, but actually Great, by beating someone who isn't recognized as great. Wright and Hopkins are recognized by everyone as Great. They're recognized on pretty much every P4P list as BETTER THAN CALZAGHE, let alone Kessler (who is on exactly zero P4P lists). I'm not saying that Wright and Hopkins are necessarily even better than Kessler (though they are)--that's almost beside the point; the point is that if you want recognition as being an all-time great, you do it by beating an all-time great, not by beating a young guy who holds two alphabet straps and has never faced anyone great himself. And the "unification" of four alphabet belts really doesn't mean anything to me. As far as I'm concerned, Calzaghe is the SMW champ and Kessler is the #1 contender. WBC, WBA, NATO, RATT, NAMBLA, all that stuff is about paying sanctioning fees. There's one linear champ, and that's Calzaghe. Adding a couple of "titles" to his name would mean nothing.
