Joe Calzaghe

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Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Who did Toney beat at supermiddle that was better than Calzaghe?

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At super middleweight...nobody! :-\

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Thats My whole point !

Toney is a talent but he is not what he could have been by a long long chalk .

I just can't understand how bypass a division and then get soft fights at heavy and be called a great .

Toney did nothing at Lightheavy , very little at Supermiddle, and after 5 years fighting in boxing backwaters won a cruiser title !

That does not for a minute in my mind make him an ATG.

I was not a fan of Lennox Lewis but he was an all time great he beat the best time and time again and stayed champ despite massive obstacles .

Toney is not worthy of such high esteem .

Good yes great no .

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I have always been a fan of toney for being so old school, fighting the best he could when he could. i don't know if he should be called an all time great tho, to be one, surly one should have to completely dominate a devision, mix it with one or two ATG's and keep it close, or win? something i don't think toney ever did. People talk about off nights, toney had many of them, losses an ATG wouldn't of had on their record, controversial and split decisions too.

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Originally Posted by Swashbuckling Gordy

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Originally Posted by miles

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Who did Toney beat at supermiddle that was better than Calzaghe?

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At super middleweight...nobody! :-\

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Thats My whole point !

Toney is a talent but he is not what he could have been by a long long chalk .

I just can't understand how bypass a division and then get soft fights at heavy and be called a great .

Toney did nothing at Lightheavy , very little at Supermiddle, and after 5 years fighting in boxing backwaters won a cruiser title !

That does not for a minute in my mind make him an ATG.

I was not a fan of Lennox Lewis but he was an all time great he beat the best time and time again and stayed champ despite massive obstacles .

Toney is not worthy of such high esteem .

Good yes great no .

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I like your intents, but I do disagree. Toney is a modern great!!

When Joe Calzaghe retires we will look back at his career and say AND

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Originally Posted by tysonbruno

When Joe Calzaghe retires we will look back at his career and say AND

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Best thing to happen is if Calzaghe retired now, the SMW division wouldn't be held hostage by a man claiming to be the champ but refusing to prove it by fighting the best opponents. The worst thing that could ever happen to the division was when Calzaghe got the Ring belt by fighting no. 3, something that wouldn't have happened if no. 3 hadn't been an American. And now Calzaghe and his fanboys can use the ring belt to claim that he is the best, even though he didn't beat no. 2 to win it

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Who did Toney beat at supermiddle that was better than Calzaghe?

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Iran Barkley. The names of the people's he fought would make Calzaghe piss his pants. Barkley has fought and beat some of the greatest names in boxing. Calzaghe won't even face, much less beat some of boxing decent names. Toney tortured Barkley, who was much better than the overrated Lacy. Hell I would pick pick Toney victims Charles Williams and Tim Littles over Calzaghe. Calzaghe reminds me of a fighter Iran Barkley beat. Darrin Van Horn. Only not quite as good.

Yeh I could imagin Charles Williams or Darrin Van Horn bein the longest reighning champ in the sport.

Even if you don't really rate his oppositions do you really think somebody that bad could be champ for 10 years?

P.S Barkley - gimme a break - his whole career is built off getting lucky against Hearns, he was a good fighter at best

What I will say about JC is that I have lost a lot of respect fror him for not following up on the Lacy victory, but speaking as someone who has followed him since the amteur days (and trust me he was an awesome amateur with one of the best records I have ever heard of) he is so much better than you realise - shame is most people will never see it or believe it coz he has taken a sh1t path and not stepped up to the plate

We talking about the same Iran Barkley that Nigel Benn clattered in a round?

VD Even James Toney didnt rate Barkley ;D

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Originally Posted by Memphis

We talking about the same Iran Barkley that Nigel Benn clattered in a round?

VD Even James Toney didnt rate Barkley ;D

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Nah, I think he meant the Iran Barkley that was Koed by Robbie Simms, beaten by grandad Duran, stopped by Make, and lost about half his fights :-\

Calzaghe's legacy really depends on who he fights after Manfredo. If he demolishes Manfredo on US television then a few things will be in place:

1. He will be well known to all casual boxing fans in the United States.
2. This marketability will give him leverage to negotiate any fight

If, after a victory over Manfredo, Calzaghe manages to have missed a superfight by September, then I will truely believe that he was overated and protected. If on the other hand he is lined up to fight Hopkins, Taylor or Wright, then I will give him masses of credit. If he then won that fight...................top 20 of all time in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by jangeorg

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Originally Posted by tysonbruno

When Joe Calzaghe retires we will look back at his career and say AND

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Best thing to happen is if Calzaghe retired now, the SMW division wouldn't be held hostage by a man claiming to be the champ but refusing to prove it by fighting the best opponents. The worst thing that could ever happen to the division was when Calzaghe got the Ring belt by fighting no. 3, something that wouldn't have happened if no. 3 hadn't been an American. And now Calzaghe and his fanboys can use the ring belt to claim that he is the best, even though he didn't beat no. 2 to win it

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CC mate

Its hard to judge how good Joe really is coz he just not fought enough p4p best fighters,fighters who are at the top of there game.

He got a lot of douters attention when he beat Lacy much the same way as when Hopkins beat Trinidad (peole forget that Hopkins was not given much of a chance in this fight)but now he has got to build on it by going to the USA and fighting some top names.


I just feel Joe has been to complaced to stay and fight in the UK instead of going after the superfights.
I also think Frank Warren has held his carrer back as well by giving him easy safe fights that nobody cares about.
But ultimtlly Joe is is own man and he should have demanded the big fights much like Hatton had to do.

So as far as I am conserned the final chapter of the Joe Calzaghe book has not been writen yet.

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Originally Posted by porkypara

Its hard to judge how good Joe really is coz he just not fought enough p4p best fighters,fighters who are at the top of there game.

He got a lot of douters attention when he beat Lacy much the same way as when Hopkins beat Trinidad (peole forget that Hopkins was not given much of a chance in this fight)but now he has got to build on it by going to the USA and fighting some top names.


I just feel Joe has been to complaced to stay and fight in the UK instead of going after the superfights.
I also think Frank Warren has held his carrer back as well by giving him easy safe fights that nobody cares about.
But ultimtlly Joe is is own man and he should have demanded the big fights much like Hatton had to do.

So as far as I am conserned the final chapter of the Joe Calzaghe book has not been writen yet.

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Has Joe fought any p4p fighters at all

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Originally Posted by tysonbruno

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Originally Posted by porkypara

Its hard to judge how good Joe really is coz he just not fought enough p4p best fighters,fighters who are at the top of there game.

He got a lot of douters attention when he beat Lacy much the same way as when Hopkins beat Trinidad (peole forget that Hopkins was not given much of a chance in this fight)but now he has got to build on it by going to the USA and fighting some top names.


I just feel Joe has been to complaced to stay and fight in the UK instead of going after the superfights.
I also think Frank Warren has held his carrer back as well by giving him easy safe fights that nobody cares about.
But ultimtlly Joe is is own man and he should have demanded the big fights much like Hatton had to do.

So as far as I am conserned the final chapter of the Joe Calzaghe book has not been writen yet.

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Has Joe fought any p4p fighters at all

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Good point.CC

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Originally Posted by porkypara

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Originally Posted by tysonbruno

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Originally Posted by porkypara

Its hard to judge how good Joe really is coz he just not fought enough p4p best fighters,fighters who are at the top of there game.

He got a lot of douters attention when he beat Lacy much the same way as when Hopkins beat Trinidad (peole forget that Hopkins was not given much of a chance in this fight)but now he has got to build on it by going to the USA and fighting some top names.


I just feel Joe has been to complaced to stay and fight in the UK instead of going after the superfights.
I also think Frank Warren has held his carrer back as well by giving him easy safe fights that nobody cares about.
But ultimtlly Joe is is own man and he should have demanded the big fights much like Hatton had to do.

So as far as I am conserned the final chapter of the Joe Calzaghe book has not been writen yet.

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Has Joe fought any p4p fighters at all

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Good point.CC

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CC back mate