Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
I will officially label JonesJrMayweather a troll...
What a crock shite!! I've just read.... I hadn't clicked this thread cause I had a feeling it was gonna be nonsense.
Boy was I wrong... :-\
It's time for me to go to bed. :(
What exactly is a troll? And it doesn't seem to be a compliment...but if an argument is made that pretty much fits then why am i the troll?
Facts are..Duran didn't beat anybody but ray leonard..and if one victory makes him ATG..then that's just ridiculous....
and the fighters he beat at lightweight were no better than the fighters shane mosley and floyd beat to win their lightweight titles...
yeah duran was a scrapper, a tough SOB, just like gatti or micky ward..but that doesn't make him an all time great...
Also how does he get credit for moving up and losing? Futhermore how does SRL get credit for beating the smaller man, not to mention losing to him...
The way the all time greats are ranked is just ridiculous..there's no clear cut way to determine who goes where except SRR is no 1..other than that..SRL,Duran,ALI, all of them esp DURAN if they had their records disected the way the modern fighters are it will be clear as day that he didn't beat anybody....And just because he padded his record by taking on all the baddest bar fighters in panama doesn't make him all time great..and since you chose to insult instead of stating why he's an ATG I guess it hurts your feelings to discover that you can't really explain why he's an all time great esp top 10...you can't name these impeccable qualifications that make ATG...so I guess I'll be the troll with facts..and you'll be the idiot with a heart based opinion....
and if yeah yeah he won in four weight divisions..well PBF won in five why is duran rated higher...corrales and castillo are better than anybody duran fought at LW and floyd beat both of them...then floyd moved up and actually won his fights where as duran one once and lost all the rest against the who's who's of his generation..so still not understanding why 's he's rated so high..
Re: name the great that made him great...
Troll isnt an insult..
Check it on Wikepedia..I couldnt quote you the meaning but it is a word for a certain type of person and what they do on the internet..
And tbf.. You think most of the fighters a floyd mayweather has fought will be remembered or known in a few decades? When the years have passed a fair few of his opponents will just be names thought of as nobodies.. When in fact alot have been good fighters..
I mean Cmon stop basing your arguement on records and the names you do and dont recognise..
You have to have seen his fights and how entertaining they were, and have known the fighters that he fought and how good they were in theyr primes and when roberto fought them..
Not even i have seen enough of roberto's fights or his opponents fights to say i know they were all good.. But he has fought alot of great fighters.. Alot of the fighters you may never of heard of were regarded as good fighters.. Roberto had defining fights and fought the very best to the end of his career and far far past his prime.. and was entertaining the entire time..
What fighters like Mayweather lack is defining fights..aside from a perfect record and the names that are on his record..What fight will people say was truely entertaining and what will they say about floyd mayweather in 20 years..
Answer me that
Re: name the great that made him great...
no need to go into a real deep explanation...
fought
Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus
Hector Thompson
Carlos Palomino
Sugar Ray Leonard
Wilfred Benitez
Pipino Cuevas
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Iran Barkley
Vinny Pazienza
Hector Camacho
William Joppy
Won
WBA Lightweight
WBC Lightweight
WBC Welterweight
WBA Jr. Middleweight
WBC Middleweight
Fought for
WBC Jr. Middleweight
Undisputed Middleweight (WBA,WBC,IBF)
WBC Spr. Middleweight
...pretty obvious why he's a great
Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
no need to go into a real deep explanation...
fought
Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus
Hector Thompson
Carlos Palomino
Sugar Ray Leonard Yes he did win one but he lost trilogy so that counts as a loss.
Wilfred Benitez
Pipino Cuevas
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Iran Barkley
Vinny Pazienza
Hector Camacho
William Joppy
Won
WBA Lightweight
WBC Lightweight
WBC Welterweight
WBA Jr. Middleweight
WBC Middleweight
Fought for
WBC Jr. Middleweight
Undisputed Middleweight (WBA,WBC,IBF)
WBC Spr. Middleweight
...pretty obvious why he's a great
I agree but still wouldn't have him top 5 he lost the biggest fights of his career his biggest win was against Leonard but he lost the trilogy and he lost to Hearns Hagler Benitez and come on Joppy ?? Duran was grandfather by that time and Joppys name shouldn't be mentioned on Durans resume because he was never that good anyway and i will cross through the list on the ones he lost then have a look for yourself i respect Duran but imo he isn't top 5 of all time and now have a look at the list and see how many he won out of the list he fought great opp but fighting great opp doesn't make you automatic top 5 of all time if you didn't win against most important names like Benitez Hearns Hagler ect.
Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
no need to go into a real deep explanation...
fought
Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus
Hector Thompson
Carlos Palomino
Sugar Ray Leonard (loss)
Wilfred Benitez (loss)
Pipino Cuevas
Marvin Hagler (loss)
Thomas Hearns (loss)
Iran Barkley
Vinny Pazienza (loss)
Hector Camacho (loss)
William Joppy (loss)
Won
WBA Lightweight
WBC Lightweight
WBC Welterweight lost only defense
WBA Jr. Middleweight never successfully defended
WBC Middleweight never successfully defended
Fought for
WBC Jr. Middleweight
Undisputed Middleweight (WBA,WBC,IBF)
WBC Spr. Middleweight
...pretty obvious why he's a great
Re: name the great that made him great...
Great is more then a good or perfect record
A fighter who captures the peoples imagination with his actions, aura and skills combined with a good record
Re: name the great that made him great...
it's true but he didn't run from anyone, Joppy although not a stellar opponent he did fight everyone that was good at 160 and did hold his own for the most part, Joppy fought Trinidad, Hopkins, Eastman, and Taylor, all 4 were top middleweights at the time and yea he only beat Eastman, but well just saying to prove the point that Duran took on all customers even if he couldn't win, he didn't turn away from any challenge
Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
it's true but he didn't run from anyone, Joppy although not a stellar opponent he did fight everyone that was good at 160 and did hold his own for the most part, Joppy fought Trinidad, Hopkins, Eastman, and Taylor, all 4 were top middleweights at the time and yea he only beat Eastman, but well just saying to prove the point that Duran took on all customers even if he couldn't win, he didn't turn away from any challenge
I totally agree but that doesn't make you automatic top 5 of all time imo bro.
Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
it's true but he didn't run from anyone, Joppy although not a stellar opponent he did fight everyone that was good at 160 and did hold his own for the most part, Joppy fought Trinidad, Hopkins, Eastman, and Taylor, all 4 were top middleweights at the time and yea he only beat Eastman, but well just saying to prove the point that Duran took on all customers even if he couldn't win, he didn't turn away from any challenge
My guess is Duran went after most of the guys he lost to at the higher weights, as opposed to not running from their challenges as I believe you suggest. Doesn't mean all that much, unless balls gets you into the top 5 p4p. Frankly I see a guy like Arguello every bit as deserving. The stature of his victims is just as good if not better. He just knew when to quit.
Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tito_BHB
Troll isnt an insult..
Check it on Wikepedia..I couldnt quote you the meaning but it is a word for a certain type of person and what they do on the internet..
And tbf.. You think most of the fighters a floyd mayweather has fought will be remembered or known in a few decades? When the years have passed a fair few of his opponents will just be names thought of as nobodies.. When in fact alot have been good fighters..
I mean Cmon stop basing your arguement on records and the names you do and dont recognise..
You have to have seen his fights and how entertaining they were, and have known the fighters that he fought and how good they were in theyr primes and when roberto fought them..
Not even i have seen enough of roberto's fights or his opponents fights to say i know they were all good.. But he has fought alot of great fighters.. Alot of the fighters you may never of heard of were regarded as good fighters.. Roberto had defining fights and fought the very best to the end of his career and far far past his prime.. and was entertaining the entire time..
What fighters like Mayweather lack is defining fights..aside from a perfect record and the names that are on his record..What fight will people say was truely entertaining and what will they say about floyd mayweather in 20 years..
Answer me that
Cool click man...because that was a very smooth and inteligent answer..
and me personally i rate total dominance higher than entertainment..i like the champs not the underdogs...i thinks it takes more heart and will power to stay motivated when you're on top and fending off every one that's trying to take your spot that why respect the fighters that dominated their opposition...i only want to see a close fight between to greats....if mayweather had a close fight against baldomir it would a bad thing for him in my eyes, as it would be everyone else...They say he needs a defining fight but he shouldn't have to lower and not use all of his skill in order to make that happen..
PBF has great defence, he's accurate, he's quick both in feet and hand, has tremendous ring intelligence when he's putting all these things to use nobody will be close in the end, at least no fighter that currently on the scene...
And I actually have seen Duran's fights, not all of them but the ones with SRL,HAg,HEArns,benitez, and barkley....and to me he was just a stronger version of gatti...yeah he moved up in weight and won titles in these weight divisions..but gatti also won titles, and so did smoke gainer, but i just don't see duran as being a top ten all time boxer...that's just my opinion...he's top 50 but top 10 is just ridiculous to me, because i don't rate professionals on how well they sell or whether or not they were "good or classy guys" out of the ring...i watch them do what they do and that's it...tim duncan is one of best players of all-time not because he has great market appeal but simply because he's one of the best at what he does...pete rose was one of best to ever play baseball..i could care less that he was caught betting on the games...
oh yeah..troll to you may not be an insult to you but it is to me..because I don't like piss people off esp not on purpose..This thread was simply started because i wanted to know why some of you guys consider duran to be worthy of top 10 ATG...
Re: name the great that made him great...
People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)
Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great
also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!
Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)
Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great
also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!
cc#800 ;D
How true and funny is that... :lolhaha:
If the shoe fights ware it. ;)
Re: name the great that made him great...
I cannot believe people are questioning Duran....what a pile of shat?!?!!!!!! Probably have not seen many fghts of his ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)
Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great
also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!
Yep,CC big man. Also remember Duran's prime was at the lighter weights yet he still continued to fight tough tough guys at much higher weights when he was far past his prime ie Hagler and Iran Barkley.
And to compare Duran to Gatti is just embaressing. >:mad :-X
Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CutMeMick
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)
Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great
also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!
cc#800 ;D
How true and funny is that... :lolhaha:
If the shoe fights ware it. ;)
CC back mate
and CC El Gamo
;)
Re: name the great that made him great...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
People really shouldn't rate people based on what they have seen on Boxrec ;)
Watch 20 - of Duran's fights prior to 1979 and then report back and tell us he was not a great
also ...watch him (A LIGHTWEIGHT) match possibly the greatest Middleweight in history for 12 rounds!!
I didn't get it off boxrec i know most of Durans fights i have watched them a good performance while losing doesn't make you top 5 he lost most of the big major fights that would of made him top 5 imo Benitez Hagler Hearns Leonard he lost trilogy so that counts as losing and he had few bad losses aswell like to Kirkland Laing who outboxed him completey and Simms who beat him aswell even though that fight was quite close he was great Lightweight but he only beat couple of good names at that weight even though i consider him greatest Lightweight he lost most of major fights when he moved up Duran is a legend but imo he isn't top 5.
