Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by Galaxy.
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Originally Posted by Preme
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'd say that Hopkins will be considered P4P top 15 of all time once all is said and done. He's not as flash as some of the higher profile all time stars and hasn't had the specatcular wins in his career but he's dominated his division in a way few have ever done in history.
Achievement wise he's done more than Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon, he did what Ray Robinson could not do and won the 175 lb title and he's still going strong at 42.
He must surely rate above Marvin Hagler now on acheivements and Hagler surely has to be top 20 p4p all time.
You could make a case for B Hop being the greatest middleweight of all time, surely only Monzon, Hagler and Robinson come into the equation and I'd say as a middleweight Hopkins has achieved as much if not more.
As for Hop fighting smaller guys well didn't Monzon fight Naples? And Hagler fight Hearns, Leanord and Duran?
Oscar, Winky and Trinidad were all the best of Hopkins era and he beat them all.
He's definitely Top 15 p4p imo.
I would say hopkins was a better middle than SRR... Ray was best at WW and whilst he done well at middle he was on the decline, he never had a rubber match with basilio to decide that, he did pick up some losses, whilst hopkins lost at the end to taylor, it was clear to me that hopkins wasn't really fully commitied to his fights then, or even agasint eastman like he was in his younger days when he was more hungry...
No other middleweight beat more Hall of Fame middleweights than Robinson did!
To be honest though big stars like Robinson make stars of their opponents when they lose to them. Some of his hall of fame opponents are probably there by virtue of beating Robinson, a circular argument.
Robinson lost his middleweight title 4 times, Monzon never, Hopkins and Hagler once...........
I know what your saying but names like:
LaMotta, Basilio, Fullmer, Olsen & Graziano can stand on there own His record against that stella group is 12-4-1.
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
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Originally Posted by Galaxy.
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by Galaxy.
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Originally Posted by Preme
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'd say that Hopkins will be considered P4P top 15 of all time once all is said and done. He's not as flash as some of the higher profile all time stars and hasn't had the specatcular wins in his career but he's dominated his division in a way few have ever done in history.
Achievement wise he's done more than Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon, he did what Ray Robinson could not do and won the 175 lb title and he's still going strong at 42.
He must surely rate above Marvin Hagler now on acheivements and Hagler surely has to be top 20 p4p all time.
You could make a case for B Hop being the greatest middleweight of all time, surely only Monzon, Hagler and Robinson come into the equation and I'd say as a middleweight Hopkins has achieved as much if not more.
As for Hop fighting smaller guys well didn't Monzon fight Naples? And Hagler fight Hearns, Leanord and Duran?
Oscar, Winky and Trinidad were all the best of Hopkins era and he beat them all.
He's definitely Top 15 p4p imo.
I would say hopkins was a better middle than SRR... Ray was best at WW and whilst he done well at middle he was on the decline, he never had a rubber match with basilio to decide that, he did pick up some losses, whilst hopkins lost at the end to taylor, it was clear to me that hopkins wasn't really fully commitied to his fights then, or even agasint eastman like he was in his younger days when he was more hungry...
No other middleweight beat more Hall of Fame middleweights than Robinson did!
To be honest though big stars like Robinson make stars of their opponents when they lose to them. Some of his hall of fame opponents are probably there by virtue of beating Robinson, a circular argument.
Robinson lost his middleweight title 4 times, Monzon never, Hopkins and Hagler once...........
I know what your saying but names like:
LaMotta, Basilio, Fullmer, Olsen & Graziano can stand on there own His record against that stella group is 12-4-1.
You think Hopkins would be unable to beat any of them? I don't..........
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by Galaxy.
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
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Originally Posted by Galaxy.
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Originally Posted by Preme
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Originally Posted by Bilbo
I'd say that Hopkins will be considered P4P top 15 of all time once all is said and done. He's not as flash as some of the higher profile all time stars and hasn't had the specatcular wins in his career but he's dominated his division in a way few have ever done in history.
Achievement wise he's done more than Marvin Hagler and Carlos Monzon, he did what Ray Robinson could not do and won the 175 lb title and he's still going strong at 42.
He must surely rate above Marvin Hagler now on acheivements and Hagler surely has to be top 20 p4p all time.
You could make a case for B Hop being the greatest middleweight of all time, surely only Monzon, Hagler and Robinson come into the equation and I'd say as a middleweight Hopkins has achieved as much if not more.
As for Hop fighting smaller guys well didn't Monzon fight Naples? And Hagler fight Hearns, Leanord and Duran?
Oscar, Winky and Trinidad were all the best of Hopkins era and he beat them all.
He's definitely Top 15 p4p imo.
I would say hopkins was a better middle than SRR... Ray was best at WW and whilst he done well at middle he was on the decline, he never had a rubber match with basilio to decide that, he did pick up some losses, whilst hopkins lost at the end to taylor, it was clear to me that hopkins wasn't really fully commitied to his fights then, or even agasint eastman like he was in his younger days when he was more hungry...
No other middleweight beat more Hall of Fame middleweights than Robinson did!
To be honest though big stars like Robinson make stars of their opponents when they lose to them. Some of his hall of fame opponents are probably there by virtue of beating Robinson, a circular argument.
Robinson lost his middleweight title 4 times, Monzon never, Hopkins and Hagler once...........
I know what your saying but names like:
LaMotta, Basilio, Fullmer, Olsen & Graziano can stand on there own His record against that stella group is 12-4-1.
You think Hopkins would be unable to beat any of them? I don't..........
He may have, just giving reasons as to way IMO Robinson is a greater middleweight. Hopkins' wins over Tarver & Wright were @ LH so cannot be considered in his middleweight accomplishments. Take Robinson's middleweight opponents & compare that to Hopkins' & theres a wide margin!
Re: OK ALL Critics aside...WHere does Hopkins Rank Now...
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by Preme
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Originally Posted by DaxxKahn
All right with out anyone saying he used his head,,,,Winky was smaller,, Hopkins was dirty,,,, The ring was too small,, Winky had a hangnail,, He timed his coffee wrong ect or anything else that can be thought of.....
I am looking for answers on just over all career wise.....
He is one of the greatest Middleweights of all time and now he has jumped up 2 divisions and had two fights against the top names in the sport
Where does this put Bernard on the all time list?.....
Where does it put him as a great of our era?.....
He has a good resume...He has been dominate....Most of all he has been able to be a top guy in his 40's....Something fighters have done in the past but mostly Heavyweights and LHW's....
If you had to rank Hopkins where would he fall???
would prolly put him in the 40's-60's really... Whislt most people seem to love hopkins and think hes so great, i can't see it.. he is a very good boxer i give him massive props for doing what hes doing now at his age... still, what prime fighter has he taken out who are real names? tito and Oscar, neither were Middle's...
hopkins as far as i'm concerned should of left middle years ago, he liked it there coz he could coast it, when he got beat and had to leave he went up to the next weakest divsion at the time, skipping SMW to fight an overhyped tarver... the 20 defenses and total unification is enough to make him a great, but he aint up there with the cream of the greats, he never chased the big dangerous fights... to often he let them slip bye...
Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson(you may remember that name,he took Roy Jones Jrs head off),and now Winky Wright
And he called Roy Jones out for years,only to get dodged
and don't forget that 2 of his losses were contreversial, IMO cheating him out of his titles was the only way they could get him out of the Middleweight division and well they chose to take that route, i thought the first fight with Taylor at worst for B-Hop was a draw, and i had him clearly winning the rematch, but well, look at Taylor's gift card and you see three gift decisions, and a batch of JR middleweights, and a former welterweight champion
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
CC Galaxy on you're SRR points. Echols,Joppy,Eastman,Holmes,Vanderpool,and undefeated 32-0 Glen Johnson and WInky v LaMotta, Basilio, Fullmer, Olsen & Graziano: I know whiich ones impress me more. ;)
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
You just can't compare fighters from different eras...We will most likely never see another "golden age" of boxing. The number of people boxing today is much smaller. The fact is the greatest boxer in the world right now is working on his layup, 40 time or fastball and not doing bag work. For decades boxing was a way out of the ghetto/barrio/corn fields etc, other sports have overtaken it. With less and less people coming into the sport the overall quality suffers. You will still have periods where youll have 3-5 really good fighters in a respective division(like WW right now), but the days of several hall of famers fighting at the same time in the same division will be rare if at all. We will never know how Bhop measure up against MWs of other eras, but in his time and with the fighters that were available he is as dominant a fighter we've seen in quite some time
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
Check out Boxrec, Hopkins is 1 #1 P4P ;)
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
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Originally Posted by No Contest
Check out Boxrec, Hopkins is 1 #1 P4P ;)
Not for nothing boxrec has the craziest rankings I have ever seen...I mean Winky dropped out of the top 25...
Re: Where are B Hop and WInky in the p4p lists after their fight?
I got money that the next Ring Rankings will have him at 1. Even if Floyd doesnt retire.
