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I think he beats them all X and not getting into the Hagler thing because i thought he won. But with the sticking around thing and title deffences well you can blame hearns for that because if not for the eye thing ray i am sure would of done even more been up there with srr.
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Originally Posted by Mr140
Pryor vs. Arguello. The one I mixed. :)
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Was Ray Leonard over rated? Not in any way what so ever, if you are a boxing fan...by boxing fan I mean fan of the game over all and is able to give a fighter credit for his accomplishments, skills etc regardless of personal feelings towards them......Can not say Ray Leonard was over rated in any way....in the later years he was given some gift decsions but the welterweight version of Leonard was as good as a fighter can get....
I am not going to break down reasons why....anyone who doubts it needs to take a closer look at his career
And I am not a fan of Leonards
I thought that the decision against Hagler was the right one personally, although I think he did lose the Hearns fight (2nd time)
I would say a little bit overated, but not much. The only thing i didn't like was how he ran against hagler and duran in the second fight. He got a gift stoppage against hearns, but other than that, when he didn't run, he was pretty good.
I actually disagree with all of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by awdleyfuturehalloffamer
1.Hagler was at ATG Middleweight.
To stand and fight with Hagler would have been without exaggeration suicide.
2. Duran could beat Leonard in close.
"Running" or boxing on the backfoot, was the ideal way to frustrate Duran, as Duran in close would still have hurt Leonard.
3. Hearns was legitimately stopped.
Herans had outboxed Sugar comprehensively, but he was fatigued from doing so. Ray went out for the stoppage he stallked well and finished very very well.
theres no question the 2nd leonard vs hearns fight was a robbery even if you scored the rounds 10-8 where leonard dominated hearns in the 5th and 12th hearns is still the clear winnerQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
I concur.Quote:
Originally Posted by sssstheres no question the 2nd leonard vs hearns fight was a robbery even if you scored the rounds 10-8 where leonard dominated hearns in the 5th and 12th hearns is still the clear winnerQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Im always quite mystifed when boxing fans call fighters overrated what they actually mean skills ? opposition ? overrated by the general public ? if we are talking about opposition then he certainly isn't overrated and he never ducked anyone unless you believe he ducked junior welterweight Pryor which i dont because when you face a prime Hearns then you certainly wouldnt duck someone like Pryor Skill wise also certainly not he is one of the most skilled fighters in boxing history he was the complete package and even had underrated power in which he could turn a fight around with one punch as for the last subject being overrated by the general public well that could be true of any great fighter but from alot of hardcore fans i have seen people like the topic creator calling Ray overrated so really is he overrated when you think about it ?
Aaron Pryor, a great (but underachieving) fighter, has become one of the most overrated fighters in history. Thank the HBO series Legendary Nights.
Nahh he wasn't overrated. The guy had it all, speed, power, a chin and HEART.
The Hagler fight is a tossup, I felt he won, but even the fact that he did so well against a NATURAL middleweight (lets not forget SRR started his career at 140lbs) coming off of such a long layoff was tremendous.
Thats one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Overrated?? The guy is relatively obscure because the only big name to give him a shot was Arguello, and we all know how Pryor handled himself against Alexis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thread Stealer
I don't think Sugar Ray Leonard is overated at all.
Interms of the man at his best then from the Hagler fight onwards the man was nothing like the man at his prime. The skills he had as a Welterweight did not carry upto Middleweight especially with the lay-off.
Sugar Ray Leonard at his best is easily in the Top 10 P4P of all-time - he had everything.
Even Leonard said in Boxing Monthly recently that Hearns won the fight but that fight has no bearing on either fight as they were both past their best easily. It was just 2 old legends doing the senior tour. At their best at Welter Leonard won and thats when it counts.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonnyI concur.Quote:
Originally Posted by sssstheres no question the 2nd leonard vs hearns fight was a robbery even if you scored the rounds 10-8 where leonard dominated hearns in the 5th and 12th hearns is still the clear winnerQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
Yes, Pryor is overrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerThats one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Overrated?? The guy is relatively obscure because the only big name to give him a shot was Arguello, and we all know how Pryor handled himself against Alexis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thread Stealer
He is not obscure on boxing message boards because people always talk about how great he is and how Leonard "feared" him because they watched an HBO documentary.
Just a couple days ago, on ESB, I've read more than one poster say he's a top 15 fighter all-time. That's not an uncommon occurence either, I've read that quite a bit.
In 2002, The Ring had him at #35 of the greatest fighters of the last 80 years, ahead of more deserving and more accomplished fighters.
People talk about how the big names avoided him. Since when do welterweights have an obligation to fight junior welterweights? Because he 'called out' Leonard? :rolleyes:
His best wins were over an Arguello who peaked 2 divisions lower, and an old Cervantes. He had some solid wins over contenders, but nowhere near enough achievement to get the rankings he often gets from the Legendary Nights Generation of Boxing Fans.