Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
I will support the arguments that suggest that anybody who thought Taylor was winning comprehensively at the time of the stoppage is a complete fool.
Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
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Originally Posted by Althugz
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Originally Posted by El Gamo
Well your points go out fo the window when you use the Margarito fight as an analogy....he thought he won. Everyone thinks they are winning. But when someone admits to thinking that they are behind and the look of surprise on his face when told he was winning,thats completely different. Only a fool would have had JT ahead by 3 rounds. Look at the punch stats. Look at who was landing the harder punches. Thank goodness Kelly won and took it away from those corrupt judges.
Elusivness?He was getting backed up.
Speed-Pavlik had the power.
Fighting off the ropes because he was being backed up there and had to fight back or get knocked out...which eventually happened.
And like I said,you originally said Pavlik was missing,well,judging by the punchstats,the fight I saw and the fight most saw,I don't think he was.Like I said,thank goodness Kelly won via KO,because getting a decision v Jermain is neigh on impossible. This was a 1 point fight either way max.
Thats a bullshit statement. Calling me a fool AND a hell of a lot of other people who thought Taylor was up by at least 3 points in the fight. I don't care if Jermaine Taylor THOUGHT he was losing. Like I said he is not watching himself..when you're feeling those punches from Pavlik that must be disheartening! Maybe it's an idea of where JT's confidence is at the moment if he thought he was losing. It has no bearing on how the fight was actually going. You want to refer to the punchstats and say Pavlik wasn't missing? That makes no sense what so ever because the punchstats say Pavlik threw many more punches than Taylor but didn't land as many so he was therefore MISSING a lot of his punches. Dunno how you can use that as an arguement to say Pavlik wasn't missing lol ???
End of the day this is all opinions and what people percieve to be good looking, POINT SCORING boxing. Taylor was scoring points, simple as. Calling someone a fool for thinking Taylor was winning is foolish in it's own right. The commentator even said Pavlik was running out of idea's and just running the one-two every time. Eventually one of the two's got Taylor and that was all she wrote. All of my friends who were rooting for Pavlik had Taylor well ahead on points too. Also if you're going by the HBO scorecard then god bless you..how many times has Harold Lederman been completely wrong and also disagreed with Larry and Jim. Again its all down to opinion. This was one of those fights.
But how can you have Taylor up by 3 points though ?? its impossible because Pavlik won 3 rounds clearly.
I had Pavlik winning 2 rounds, Taylor 4 with a 10-8 round. Thats 3 points. Not 'Impossible' as there were a few people who had this scorecard. The fight wasn't one-sided by any means. It was a 50-50 fight with both fighters landing but I just gave Taylor the edge in cleaner punching, defence (until the last 1 or 2 when his left hand kept dropping) and ring generalship. 58-55 isn't a wide score if you consider the 10-8 round!!
Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by miles
I will support the arguments that suggest that anybody who thought Taylor was winning comprehensively at the time of the stoppage is a complete fool.
Good for you..
Was he winning the fight comprehensively? No..it was back and forth action
Could he have been winning on points comprehensively? Quite possibly because of the criteria of scoring points and the knockdown in round 2.
So think i'm a fool thats fine..not bothered. You can jog on. Anyways I've said my peice on why I think Taylor was ahead and i'm not the only one who thinks so. Not discussing it anymore. I can see the flip side why some people would have Pavlik ahead too but people using words like 'you'd be a fool to think that' or 'thats Impossible' piss me off but hey what can you do but give your reasons why.
Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by Althugz
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Originally Posted by miles
I will support the arguments that suggest that anybody who thought Taylor was winning comprehensively at the time of the stoppage is a complete fool.
Good for you..
Was he winning the fight comprehensively? No..it was back and forth action
Could he have been winning on points comprehensively? Quite possibly because of the criteria of scoring points and the knockdown in round 2.
So think i'm a fool thats fine..not bothered. You can jog on. Anyways I've said my peice on why I think Taylor was ahead and i'm not the only one who thinks so. Not discussing it anymore. I can see the flip side why some people would have Pavlik ahead too but people using words like 'you'd be a fool to think that' or 'thats Impossible' piss me off but hey what can you do but give your reasons why.
Look, it was a great fight and I really enjoyed it.
But look at the stats, they really do tell a story here. Taylor blew himself out in the 2nd and it doesnt matter how pitty patter Pavlik looked....he was throwing real punches there and they told and most importantly.....they were landing.
Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
Why does everyone keep throwing the stats in for the arguement?? They tell me that Pavlik was missing a lot because Taylor landed the same amount if not more and threw a hell of a lot less!? Judges normally love accurate clean punching and making your opponent miss also counts for points!!
I don't give a shit that you all don't agree with me because I can understand how someone could have scored it either way! Certain words used are just unjustified! Things like 'Were the judges smoking crack', 'impossible' and 'you'd be a fool for scoring it that way' aren't words that should be used for a fight that was fairly close and difficult to score!! 58-55 is a close score considering the knockdown!
Anyway I keep getting dragged back in to this! lol I think i'm going to get fired from work soon and it will all be Saddo's fault! :lickish:
Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
1 Pavlik
2 Taylor
3 Pavlik
4 Pavlik
5 Taylor
6 Pavlik
I can't see how you can have Taylor up by 3.
Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by Althugz
Why does everyone keep throwing the stats in for the arguement?? They tell me that Pavlik was missing a lot because Taylor landed the same amount if not more and threw a hell of a lot less!? Judges normally love accurate clean punching and making your opponent miss also counts for points!!
I don't give a S*** that you all don't agree with me because I can understand how someone could have scored it either way! Certain words used are just unjustified! Things like 'Were the judges smoking crack', 'impossible' and 'you'd be a fool for scoring it that way' aren't words that should be used for a fight that was fairly close and difficult to score!! 58-55 is a close score considering the knockdown!
Anyway I keep getting dragged back in to this! lol I think i'm going to get fired from work soon and it will all be Saddo's fault! :lickish:
CC m8 i had it the exact same way, you score rounds on the way you interpret the fight is going and what you like to see. Personally i scored it on accuracy, efficency and the quality of the punches i scored the Hopkins Winky fight the same way and gave the fight to Hopkins eventhough im a Winky fan. To call people fools idiots ect is simply out of order and completely direspectful. The judges scored the fight similar and all of them had pritty much the same score and they are professionals. The fight was close and hard to score and you just got to go with who you feel did the better work.
Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
I think allot of people would agree that Taylor looked very,very sharp. His jab was popping and he controlled the ring. He was very quick to counter and had allot of pop in his right hand. If he looked bad like Ouma and Spinks it would have never made it to the 5th round. Give Taylor credit that he looked great. He was in the best conditioning of his career Steward said. The fact he couldnt finish off Pavlik
is beyond me. Pavlik took some shots that would have knocked out most middle weights. I believe Pavlik is the better fighter of the two and I don't think fighting again at a higher weight would help if any thing it will disadvantage Taylor. They both weigh about the same natural why would you want to face him stronger and more muscled. Pavlik was too much and give him respect. How many other people including greats like Wright and Hopkins can say they knocked out Taylor.
Re: who here felt JT could've KOed Pavlik??
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Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
1 Pavlik
2 Taylor
3 Pavlik
4 Pavlik
5 Taylor
6 Pavlik
I can't see how you can have Taylor up by 3.
I explained and explained how I had him up 3...if you can't see it, fair play mate but I can't keep explaining myself.
Thats your scorecard..fine. 58-55 was mine. (Don't forget 10-8 round) I had Taylor easily taking the 1st..don't care what the stats say now..but that was my clear view of it.
