Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
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Originally Posted by shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
There not that is why they are clsoe with the others and the best wins you have to look at and Shane has the better wins.
Don't forget the 5 losses, 4 of them in his prime. That alone drops him well below Floyd.
Fair enough point. But losing to Wright and Forrest...2 very skilled and difficult fighters...is nothing to be ashamed of. I give a fighter props for the level of opposition they fight...win or lose. Floyd never faced a technically proficient and bigger fighter like Wright nor has he faced a rangy, difficult fighter like Forrest (both whom where in their prime when Shane fought them). Not to mention Mosley taking on a young superstar in Cotto in the latter part of his career. Just saying...Shane has losses on his record...but overall...win or lose...he has stepped in the ring with better fighters than Floyd.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Shane was 31 and about out of his peak and for Winkey i do not feel he was prime anymore so i do not hold that against him.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Srl and Whitaker wile be ranked above PBf for every unless he cleans out a divsion and beats Cotto Williams and Margarito then he be there.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
All time great discussions will always be a thing where you ask 30 people and you'll get at least 25 different answers. There are good points brought up all over this thread. I think it's a question that doesn't neccesarilly have a right answer.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Well mar i will cc you but i must say i do like to argue about it you can see alot of different points to it.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
Won world titles in 5 different weight classes has win's over.
G.Hernandez
Ricky Hatton
Oscar De La Hoya
Jose Luis Castillo x2
Diego Corrales
How can he not be an ATG ?? You are one if the brightest posters that I know of but think a little longer...... G.Hernandez was too light hitting ...... Ricky Hatton actually showcased little more than the ability to come foward and take a beating. Jose Luis Castillo never really was a well conditioned/serious about his trade boxer ...... Oscar De La Hoya was past his prime ..... Diego Corrales, true win there !!!! Which one of those boxers had true speed and power ? They are all upright can't get out of their own way boxers. Neither is noted for their lateral movement......... So, hardly ATG credentials !!!
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mar
All time great discussions will always be a thing where you ask 30 people and you'll get at least 25 different answers. There are good points brought up all over this thread. I think it's a question that doesn't neccesarilly have a right answer.
If Floyd wanted to be mentioned with the lights of Ali & Robinson he has to take on all challengers as they did. Like it or not there is a huge question at 147 as to who the best fighter is. Is it Floyd, Cotto, or Williams? In Ali's day there was no question of who was the 'greatest' bc Ali didnt run from true challenges he ran to them. Ali was the champ & he chased after the top guys to PROVE he was the greatest time & again & as for Robinson dont get me started. When did Floyd shock the world as Ali did time & again? Floyd is a great fighter no doubt but there is doubt as to who the best in his division is, so how can he be #1 p4p? Manny Pac is #1 bc he goes out & proves it! Who has Manny ducked, the answer is no one. Pac started at 112lbs & now is at 130 so he went up multiple divisions & takes on the best in those divisions & Floyd does not. Beating Baldomir (journeyman) & Hatton (140lber) doesnt make you the best at 147.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
Won world titles in 5 different weight classes has win's over.
G.Hernandez
Ricky Hatton
Oscar De La Hoya
Jose Luis Castillo x2
Diego Corrales
How can he not be an ATG ?? You are one if the brightest posters that I know of but think a little longer...... G.Hernandez was too light hitting ...... Ricky Hatton actually showcased little more than the ability to come foward and take a beating. Jose Luis Castillo never really was a well conditioned/serious about his trade boxer ...... Oscar De La Hoya was past his prime ..... Diego Corrales, true win there !!!! Which one of those boxers had true speed and power ? They are all upright can't get out of their own way boxers. Neither is noted for their lateral movement......... So, hardly ATG credentials !!!
G.Hernandez also had win over the great Azumah Nelson. It doesn't matter if he is Light hitting he is still a great fighter and he had never been beaten at Superfeatherweight, when Mayweather fought him. Ricky Hatton was 43-0 and two weight division champion. Jose Luis Castillo was a great Lightweight, Corrales was in top 10 P4P when Mayweather fought him, plus Mayweather was the underdog, and whatever you say about Oscar De La Hoya he was still a great fighter and Mayweather beat Oscar De La Hoya at a weight class he had never fought at before.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
Won world titles in 5 different weight classes has win's over.
G.Hernandez
Ricky Hatton
Oscar De La Hoya
Jose Luis Castillo x2
Diego Corrales
How can he not be an ATG ?? You are one if the brightest posters that I know of but think a little longer...... G.Hernandez was too light hitting ...... Ricky Hatton actually showcased little more than the ability to come foward and take a beating. Jose Luis Castillo never really was a well conditioned/serious about his trade boxer ...... Oscar De La Hoya was past his prime ..... Diego Corrales, true win there !!!! Which one of those boxers had true speed and power ? They are all upright can't get out of their own way boxers. Neither is noted for their lateral movement......... So, hardly ATG credentials !!!
G.Hernandez also had win over the great Azumah Nelson. It doesn't matter if he is Light hitting he is still a great fighter and he had never been beaten at Superfeatherweight, when Mayweather fought him. Ricky Hatton was 43-0 and two weight division champion. Jose Luis Castillo was a great Lightweight, Corrales was in top 10 P4P when Mayweather fought him, plus Mayweather was the underdog, and whatever you say about Oscar De La Hoya he was still a great fighter and Mayweather beat Oscar De La Hoya at a weight class he had never fought at before.
Nice try but far too much "hope " in your statement. Oh yeah and Spinks beat Ali ........ so is Spinks an ATG ? ATG as in all time good one, yes .... "GREAT", hell no !!! (not yet) Why no reference as to how all the mentioned fighters had mobility issues ? He 1-2 fights away from cementing it though ..... With a win vs Cotto or Williams. Margarito would still leave doubts by some. PBF was obviously the larger & stronger fighter vs Hatton and received a gift in JLC 1.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
Won world titles in 5 different weight classes has win's over.
G.Hernandez
Ricky Hatton
Oscar De La Hoya
Jose Luis Castillo x2
Diego Corrales
How can he not be an ATG ?? You are one if the brightest posters that I know of but think a little longer...... G.Hernandez was too light hitting ...... Ricky Hatton actually showcased little more than the ability to come foward and take a beating. Jose Luis Castillo never really was a well conditioned/serious about his trade boxer ...... Oscar De La Hoya was past his prime ..... Diego Corrales, true win there !!!! Which one of those boxers had true speed and power ? They are all upright can't get out of their own way boxers. Neither is noted for their lateral movement......... So, hardly ATG credentials !!!
G.Hernandez also had win over the great Azumah Nelson. It doesn't matter if he is Light hitting he is still a great fighter and he had never been beaten at Superfeatherweight, when Mayweather fought him. Ricky Hatton was 43-0 and two weight division champion. Jose Luis Castillo was a great Lightweight, Corrales was in top 10 P4P when Mayweather fought him, plus Mayweather was the underdog, and whatever you say about Oscar De La Hoya he was still a great fighter and Mayweather beat Oscar De La Hoya at a weight class he had never fought at before.
Nice try but far too much "hope " in your statement. Oh yeah and Spinks beat Ali ........ so is Spinks an ATG ? ATG as in all time good one, yes .... "GREAT", hell no !!! (not yet) Why no reference as to how all the mentioned fighters had mobility issues ? He 1-2 fights away from cementing it though ..... With a win vs Cotto or Williams. Margarito would still leave doubts by some. PBF was obviously the larger & stronger fighter vs Hatton and received a gift in JLC 1.
Spinks beating a shot to bits Ali has no reference to Mayweather beating top notch fighters like, Castillo, Corrales, Oscar, Hernandez, Hatton. His achievements are ATG, if Mayweather isn't ATG what do you defy as an ATG then ??
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
Won world titles in 5 different weight classes has win's over.
G.Hernandez
Ricky Hatton
Oscar De La Hoya
Jose Luis Castillo x2
Diego Corrales
How can he not be an ATG ?? You are one if the brightest posters that I know of but think a little longer...... G.Hernandez was too light hitting ...... Ricky Hatton actually showcased little more than the ability to come foward and take a beating. Jose Luis Castillo never really was a well conditioned/serious about his trade boxer ...... Oscar De La Hoya was past his prime ..... Diego Corrales, true win there !!!! Which one of those boxers had true speed and power ? They are all upright can't get out of their own way boxers. Neither is noted for their lateral movement......... So, hardly ATG credentials !!!
G.Hernandez also had win over the great Azumah Nelson. It doesn't matter if he is Light hitting he is still a great fighter and he had never been beaten at Superfeatherweight, when Mayweather fought him. Ricky Hatton was 43-0 and two weight division champion. Jose Luis Castillo was a great Lightweight, Corrales was in top 10 P4P when Mayweather fought him, plus Mayweather was the underdog, and whatever you say about Oscar De La Hoya he was still a great fighter and Mayweather beat Oscar De La Hoya at a weight class he had never fought at before.
Nice try but far too much "hope " in your statement. Oh yeah and Spinks beat Ali ........ so is Spinks an ATG ? ATG as in all time good one, yes .... "GREAT", hell no !!! (not yet) Why no reference as to how all the mentioned fighters had mobility issues ? He 1-2 fights away from cementing it though ..... With a win vs Cotto or Williams. Margarito would still leave doubts by some. PBF was obviously the larger & stronger fighter vs Hatton and received a gift in JLC 1.
Spinks beating a shot to bits Ali has no reference to Mayweather beating top notch fighters like, Castillo, Corrales, Oscar, Hernandez, Hatton. His achievements are ATG, if Mayweather isn't ATG what do you defy as an ATG then ??
Simple beat a couple of ATG's....... rather simple. This is not a list of ATG's! And especially when the division is in its current state of who is the best and you avoid them.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
if Mayweather isn't ATG what do you defy as an ATG then ??
Simple beat a couple of ATG's....... rather simple. This is not a list of ATG's! And especially when the division is in its current state of who is the best and you avoid them.
Addicted, that is a completely retarded and unrealistic response -- it's also in direct tension with your earlier statement that beating Cotto and Williams would make Floyd an ATG. (Hint: neither Cotto nor Williams are ATGs!! In fact, the only other living fighter who's even arguably an ATG right now is Bernard Hopkins (RJJ too, though he's clearly out of his prime). I hope you're not suggesting Floyd has to move up to Light Heavy and beat Hopkins in order to stake his claim....)
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
Well mar i will cc you but i must say i do like to argue about it you can see alot of different points to it.
No doubt i love the different views
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
[quote=shza ]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
if Mayweather isn't ATG what do you defy as an ATG then ??
Simple beat a couple of ATG's....... rather simple. This is not a list of ATG's! And especially when the division is in its current state of who is the best and you avoid them.
Addicted, that is a completely retarded and unrealistic response -- it's also in direct tension with your earlier statement that beating Cotto and Williams would make Floyd an ATG. (Hint: neither Cotto nor Williams are ATGs!! In fact, the only other living fighter who's even arguably an ATG right now is Bernard Hopkins (RJJ too, though he's clearly out of his prime). I hope you're not suggesting Floyd has to move up to Light Heavy and beat Hopkins in order to stake his claim....) No they are not but there are no ATG @ their peak so he can silence the nay sayers by beating what was out there. It is not his fault that none are out there. But he should be able to say he beat all comers to be an ATG.
Re: Emanuel steward says pbf is not an ATG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by shza
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addicted to_boxing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell "Sweet Pea" Whitaker
if Mayweather isn't ATG what do you defy as an ATG then ??
Simple beat a couple of ATG's....... rather simple. This is not a list of ATG's! And especially when the division is in its current state of who is the best and you avoid them.
Addicted, that is a completely retarded and unrealistic response -- it's also in direct tension with your earlier statement that beating Cotto and Williams would make Floyd an ATG. (Hint: neither Cotto nor Williams are ATGs!! In fact, the only other living fighter who's even arguably an ATG right now is Bernard Hopkins (RJJ too, though he's clearly out of his prime). I hope you're not suggesting Floyd has to move up to Light Heavy and beat Hopkins in order to stake his claim....)
No just to beat a dangerous foe that mirrors some of his skills rather than the calculated schedule of fighting slow plodding fighters. Who has has been his largest ring risk ?
