Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
....also Gene Tunney he was tough too he would have had a shot
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
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Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN
One thing is for sure Lewis wouldn't have beaten him! There appears to be a trend in this subject to question Ali's close decisions or gifts. Granted he had a close call with Jones but how old was he? 21! Heavyweights today don't even start until they are in their mid twenties and mature in their mid thirties!
Cooper knocked him down with a perfect left hook, so was big Henry a bum? No he wasn't, he was a bloody good fighter at HW for many years. Lewis would have lost a lopsided Ud against a prime 60's Ali.
Every champion has a close call or two, Lewis copped a bad one against Holyfield in their first fight but got a gift in their second.
Cooper was never top Heavyweight fighter he was good Domestic/European level he lost to all of the top boys in brutal fashion. And what makes it even worse is that Ali should of been DQ in the fight with Cooper
Lewis vs Holyfield 2 was a very close fight that i had Lewis edging but you can't compare that to flat out gift decisions that Ali got like, Norton vs Ali 3 a lot of people consider that a robbery so do i, Young vs Ali most ringside experts had Young winning so did i. He also got a gift against Shavers as well. And you mention Ali was only young when he fought Doug Jones but he won the title off Liston 1 year after that fight, so he wasn't far from his prime.
In fact Ali fought Jones, then Cooper, then Liston. So he was very close to his peak.
In Lewis V Holyfield 2 i didn't give a round to Lewis until the 9th! I agree the Norton fights were gifts but that was in the 70's and Cooper although not a number one contender was a good win for Ali considering his age at the time of the fight. ( I agree about the possible DQ) The Ali age thing i mention due to the fact that most HW do not reach the prime until their late 20's or early 30's. I find it difficult to fault the Ali of 1966/67 and i cannot see anyone beating him at that time from any era.
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
I thought BOTH Lewis-Holyfield I AND Lewis-Holyfield II were scored for the wrong person....#1 of course Lewis won, but #2 I gave to Evander.....he really fought his ass off in that one.
You can say "Ali couldn't be beaten from 66/67" because he wasn't....I (and I am sure everyone else) just pose some THEORETICAL struggles for Ali at that stage of his career. Yes Ali was big......but he was big FOR HIS TIME....they called Jack Johnson "The Galveston Giant" and he was just 6'1.....hardly a giant at all seeing how Paul Williams A WELTERWEIGHT is 6'1 today. And Ali's movement was brand new for heavyweights back in the 60's but today it's taught to basically every tall lanky fighter.
We just figure he wouldn't have had it so easy vs guys like Lennox and Wladimir seeing how big, powerful, fast, and athletic they are.....and it's true
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
the 60's version of ali is a much different fighter than the 70's ali. 70's ali was beatable and it is the 70's ali that lost fights. but 60's flabslab ali, was just the best. yea he got floored by cooper, but thats because ali plays around. i think he just wanted to wait till the 5th round to really attack cooper just 2 make his prediction come true.
there is no way i can see Joe louis ever beating ali. he would chase ali around the ring all night, ali would b dancing circles arounf him slipping the jab cutting up louis. louis would have 2 land his deadly combo on him to win, but ali wouldnt let that happen. ali wins by ud. i brought up how louis almost lost 2 conn, but conn decided 2 trade w/ louis and got ktfo. im saying if conn can oupoint louis, ali can, but ali would be smart enough, not 2 go toe2toe until louis is ready to fall
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
....Joe Louis wasn't as robotic as people think....he was quite a fighter and my #1 heavyweight of ALL-TIME and yes it's staying no matter how much anyone argues about it.
Joe Louis could beat anyone any given night
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
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Originally Posted by Lyle
....Joe Louis wasn't as robotic as people think....he was quite a fighter and my #1 heavyweight of ALL-TIME and yes it's staying no matter how much anyone argues about it.
Joe Louis could beat anyone any given night
Joe was a great man no doubt , but to suggest he could beat a Foreman or a Lewis is just daft , he was to small , chin suspect, and to slow of foot for an Ali or Lennox Lewis.
But hey fair enough if thats your opinion Lyle :)
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Give joe louis two good eyes and he could defeat anybody. He fought with one eye. How many boxers ever fought with one good eye. I bet it's close to 0.
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
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Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Tale of tape
Muhammad Ali
Height 6 foot 2
Reach 80 inches
Weight approx 220.
Lennox Lewis
Height: 6 foot 5
Reach: 85 inches
Weight: approx 255
Nuff said.
Spot on as usual Eagle. Like comparing Jessie Owens to Carl Lewis.
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
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Originally Posted by bikersk
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Originally Posted by eagle
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Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
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Originally Posted by undefeated
think about it--no1 could--frazier, louis, dempesy , marciano, holmes, foreman,holyfield ,tyson, and yes norton. the 60's ali was the REAL ali-FLABSLAB. no1 1 could have beaten the 60's ali
This ain't the same *Unbeatable 60s Ali* that got a gift decision against the Mediocre Doug Jones, or the same Ali that almost got KO by Cruiserweight Henry Cooper, and had to have smelling salts which wern't allowed in UK, plus have his glove split to help him survive.
Plenty could of have beaten him.
Prime Riddick Bowe
Prime Larry Holmes
Prime Lennox Lewis
Prime Joe Louis
Etc.
Oh do please,I like Holmes,but the very best Holmes there ever was couldnt knock him out even though he allready had Parkinsons
And before you say something foolish about reach or size,Ali was 6'2 and had good reach even by todays standards
Tale of tape
Muhammad Ali
Height 6 foot 2
Reach 80 inches
Weight approx 220.
Lennox Lewis
Height: 6 foot 5
Reach: 85 inches
Weight: approx 255
Nuff said.
Spot on as usual Eagle. Like comparing Jessie Owens to Carl Lewis.
Really
Oliver Mccall 6'2
Hasim Rahman 6'2
What do they both have in common other then being slower and less powerful then Ali,take your time,it will come to you
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
And heavier. Wow that didn't take long did it.
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Not to mention training improvements and changes in style. Jee that was quick too.
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
Oh yeah and nutrition and sports psychology. Wow how slow.
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
A peak Ali (which we did not see) was the greatest and even if someone could beat him that does not make them greater than him because you also have to beat the best in your era and be a consistant champion and no one bar Louis did that and stylewise he would loose to Ali.
Re: 60's ALI: there is no HW great that could have beaten him.
And the fact that the alphabet belts let them get a shot at the champ.
