Re: Roy Jones: the boxing genius
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Well, Jones actually attempted to box quite well in the amateurs.
Although he was a standout amateur, he was not invincible, so famously beaten by McClellan.
Jones then turned pro. His speed, athleticism and power allowed him to destroy opposition.
Until he was opposed by fighters of good ability that could cope with his power.
In these situations Jones could not adjust, he didn't have skills per se.
He was easily cornered and not slick on defense in close as we can see against Tarver and Johnson.
I just imagine them the same size.
And skill beats natural ability.
You should only really judge fighters when in their prime. Do you think a younger Jones would have lost against those two?
Objectively, pound for pound, probably not, but we were never given any reason to believe he had left his prime, he had just won the heavyweight title we thought he was invincible, I'm sure none of us imagined he had left his prime when he boxed Johnson and Tarver the first times.
I always wondered how he would handle the massive weight loss to be honest. I think that he fought better LHWs than Johnson and Tarver in Virgil Hill, Eric Harding (pre RJJ), Derrick Harmon (again pre RJJ), Reggie Johnson and Montell Griffin before Jones ruined him in the rematch.
Re: Roy Jones: the boxing genius
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
You should only really judge fighters when in their prime. Do you think a younger Jones would have lost against those two?
Objectively, pound for pound, probably not, but we were never given any reason to believe he had left his prime, he had just won the heavyweight title we thought he was invincible, I'm sure none of us imagined he had left his prime when he boxed Johnson and Tarver the first times.
I always wondered how he would handle the massive weight loss to be honest. I think that he fought better LHWs than Johnson and Tarver in Virgil Hill, Eric Harding (pre RJJ), Derrick Harmon (again pre RJJ), Reggie Johnson and Montell Griffin before Jones ruined him in the rematch.
I was certain he'd be fine, but that weight gain and subsequent loss destroyed his system.
The entire weights program going up to heavy didn't usit Roy and unfortuantely he paid the price for it.
If only Ruiz had been his last fight we'd never have to mourne these losses.
On the plus side, since his speed and power have faded he's working on his skill and he might yet become a very proficient textbook boxer.
Re: Roy Jones: the boxing genius
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rjj tszyu
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Objectively, pound for pound, probably not, but we were never given any reason to believe he had left his prime, he had just won the heavyweight title we thought he was invincible, I'm sure none of us imagined he had left his prime when he boxed Johnson and Tarver the first times.
I always wondered how he would handle the massive weight loss to be honest. I think that he fought better LHWs than Johnson and Tarver in Virgil Hill, Eric Harding (pre RJJ), Derrick Harmon (again pre RJJ), Reggie Johnson and Montell Griffin before Jones ruined him in the rematch.
I was certain he'd be fine, but that weight gain and subsequent loss destroyed his system.
The entire weights program going up to heavy didn't usit Roy and unfortuantely he paid the price for it.
If only Ruiz had been his last fight we'd never have to mourne these losses.
On the plus side, since his speed and power have faded he's working on his skill and he might yet become a very proficient textbook boxer.
Yeah. he played with his weight too much throughout his career. its hard to believe he started at 154 when you see how heavy he looked before the Ruiz fight.
Re: Roy Jones: the boxing genius
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Well, Jones actually attempted to box quite well in the amateurs.
Although he was a standout amateur, he was not invincible, so famously beaten by McClellan.
Jones then turned pro. His speed, athleticism and power allowed him to destroy opposition.
Until he was opposed by fighters of good ability that could cope with his power.
In these situations Jones could not adjust, he didn't have skills per se.
He was easily cornered and not slick on defense in close as we can see against Tarver and Johnson.
I just imagine them the same size.
And skill beats natural ability.
You should only really judge fighters when in their prime. Do you think a younger Jones would have lost against those two?
Objectively, pound for pound, probably not, but we were never given any reason to believe he had left his prime, he had just won the heavyweight title we thought he was invincible, I'm sure none of us imagined he had left his prime when he boxed Johnson and Tarver the first times.
At the time of the first Tarver fight Roy was 34. Even with the weightloss excuse it wasn't a surprise that the guy was slipping. Tarver two proved it. The Johnson fight should never have even happened. ;)
Re: Roy Jones: the boxing genius
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
You should only really judge fighters when in their prime. Do you think a younger Jones would have lost against those two?
Objectively, pound for pound, probably not, but we were never given any reason to believe he had left his prime, he had just won the heavyweight title we thought he was invincible, I'm sure none of us imagined he had left his prime when he boxed Johnson and Tarver the first times.
At the time of the first Tarver fight Roy was 34. Even with the weightloss excuse it wasn't a surprise that the guy was slipping. Tarver two proved it. The Johnson fight should never have even happened. ;)
True, the Johnson fight was a mistake from the get go.
Re: Roy Jones: the boxing genius
I still think the Johnson fight was a massive shock . I cant belive it happend. Johnsons best win no doubt but I dont reckon he could repeat it. If they fought now , Jones seems to have gotten his bounce back abit which was totally lacking that night .
He was awful TBH. Johnson was great, just kept marching forward, fought his fight and bossed Jones about . I dont know what Jones' tactics were but it appeared he just wanted to lay on the ropes rather than box his way out of corners. It looked like a career eneding loss and Jones has done great to comeback from that
If he could comeback to beat Joe he defo underlines his greatness as the best of this era but nothing suggests he can turn back the clock that much . Tito was a blown up welter coming off inactivity and a loss . Prince Adjamu showed Jones doesnt have then much left in the tank when pushed so I think weve seen Jones last win . Tito was his farewell fight, Joe will just work too hard for him .
Re: Roy Jones: the boxing genius
roy in his prime was the best i just think he wouldve done better if he was born a little earlier so a hagler leonard or hearns match could happen
Re: Roy Jones: the boxing genius
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hitmandonny
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fenster
You should only really judge fighters when in their prime. Do you think a younger Jones would have lost against those two?
Objectively, pound for pound, probably not, but we were never given any reason to believe he had left his prime, he had just won the heavyweight title we thought he was invincible, I'm sure none of us imagined he had left his prime when he boxed Johnson and Tarver the first times.
At the time of the first Tarver fight Roy was 34. Even with the weightloss excuse it wasn't a surprise that the guy was slipping. Tarver two proved it. The Johnson fight should never have even happened. ;)
How did Tarver 2 prove it? One good punch? Roy was controlling the action, he looked faster that fight then in the first, Tarver looked out of his element, then he got in a good counter punch, IT HAPPENS. The Johnson fight was Roy not keeping his hands up against the ropes.
