Pavlik bitching about Hopkins: he isnt even good

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

I was being sarcastic with the ghost tying his hands rofl.
And it was a lack of experience talking because he doesn't know what was wrong in there.
What was wrong is he's never fought a fighter with lateral movement, someone who can take his tools from him
the way bhop did. Did you see teh SCARED look on his face after the 12th round? During the scuffle, teh way he backed up with absolute
horror in his eyes? Did you see the look of disbelief and humble afterwards?

Its the first time he felt USELESS. .and there are many fighters who can make people feel this way, Bhop being one of them.
He's never had that happen before, he's never had that EXPERIENCE in the ring before. So his only arguement is " It can't be that he was too crafty, i mean.. taylor beat him twice! I beat taylor twice! taylor and calzaghe hit him at will! I just couldnt get anything going.. i dont know.. i tjust wasnt me "

This is the lack of experience talking. When you say you dont know why you didn't beat someone that someone you had beaten beat, thats lack of experience.

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When did an opponents lateral movement stop a fighter trying to throw punches??

Hopkins completely did a job on the guy and was different class, but Pavlick didn't thrown anything from the first bell. Go and watch the Miranda fight and watch how Pavlick starts. Don't get me wrong I don't rate Pavlick, but I do think he was in part master of his own downfall. I honestly think he was scared.

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Calzaghe needs to have his feet planted to throw, thats how he fights.
He only throws punches when he is set. Bhops lateral movement prevented Kelly from ever getting set thus preventing him to throw punches. Understand now?

Whenever bhop wasn't moving, he was engaging first.. forcing kelly to go into defense.
He made kelly respectful (with power ), confused (with movement) and defensive (with activity). He never once let Kelly Sit on his shots, which is the ONLY time kelly throws punches.

I've said it before the fight and will say it once more. Kelly only throws when the target is standing infront of him waiting, on the ropes, or in a corner. He will look silly the moment he fights someone who won't stay there long enough to get anything off. Bhop was that person, THATS why kelly couldn't punch.

As for the comment about him being scared - He looked like he saw a ghost after the fight.. He looked so horrified, it was amazing. Then he looked like he wanted to cry.
So that could very well be the case. But bhop made kelly very respectful.. kelly sought a plan B (which he didn't have) therefore was out of options. His trainer kept whispering to him in the corner " Be active.. activity is how Calzaghe won ", But calzaghe doesn't need to be set to throw.. he just throws punches regardless. Thats the difference, i guess.

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Thanks for educating me on ;)

I disagree with you assement of Pavlick. Against Miranda and Taylor in their first fight he was throwing shots throughout whether his feet were planted or whether he was on the backfoot and being hit himself.
Like I've said Hopkins is awesome, Pavlick is average, but he came out from that first bell looking like a beaten fighter, even before B-HOP could do anything to negate Pavlicks gameplan (or appparent lack of one)

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Originally Posted by BIG H

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Originally Posted by intoccabile

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Originally Posted by BIG H

When did an opponents lateral movement stop a fighter trying to throw punches??

Hopkins completely did a job on the guy and was different class, but Pavlick didn't thrown anything from the first bell. Go and watch the Miranda fight and watch how Pavlick starts. Don't get me wrong I don't rate Pavlick, but I do think he was in part master of his own downfall. I honestly think he was scared.

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Calzaghe needs to have his feet planted to throw, thats how he fights.
He only throws punches when he is set. Bhops lateral movement prevented Kelly from ever getting set thus preventing him to throw punches. Understand now?

Whenever bhop wasn't moving, he was engaging first.. forcing kelly to go into defense.
He made kelly respectful (with power ), confused (with movement) and defensive (with activity). He never once let Kelly Sit on his shots, which is the ONLY time kelly throws punches.

I've said it before the fight and will say it once more. Kelly only throws when the target is standing infront of him waiting, on the ropes, or in a corner. He will look silly the moment he fights someone who won't stay there long enough to get anything off. Bhop was that person, THATS why kelly couldn't punch.

As for the comment about him being scared - He looked like he saw a ghost after the fight.. He looked so horrified, it was amazing. Then he looked like he wanted to cry.
So that could very well be the case. But bhop made kelly very respectful.. kelly sought a plan B (which he didn't have) therefore was out of options. His trainer kept whispering to him in the corner " Be active.. activity is how Calzaghe won ", But calzaghe doesn't need to be set to throw.. he just throws punches regardless. Thats the difference, i guess.

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Thanks for educating me on ;)

I disagree with you assement of Pavlick. Against Miranda and Taylor in their first fight he was throwing shots throughout whether his feet were planted or whether he was on the backfoot and being hit himself.
Like I've said Hopkins is awesome, Pavlick is average, but he came out from that first bell looking like a beaten fighter, even before B-HOP could do anything to negate Pavlicks gameplan (or appparent lack of one)

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Both edison and taylor stood right infront of him.. he was comfortable. So he threw punches.
See how muc hdifferent he looked in the second taylor fight? Because taylor fought a more technical fight. He looks worse and worse depending on how technical his opponent is.

He didn't come off like a dickhead to me, just uneducated responses, lots of times when you are in with a guy like HOpkins its the little things you don't notice that make him win. That to me means that Hopkins was A LOT better then Pavlik. ALso he compared fights which means nothing as their fight indicates unless its comparing two guys to a similar style of opponent even that is hit-and-miss. Also Calzaghe and Taylor definitely didn't hit Hopkins at will, which they both atest to.

As for the people arguing, if you don't understand how Hopkins movement is different then any other fighters its understandable, but you should take solice in the fact that opponents still consistently have troubles finding range against him. If he didn't move different guys wouldn't have the troubles they do. It gets very tactical after that. He very smart at seeing when your putting your foot down, he knows exactly which angles you like to be at when throwing punches, what distance you like to be at, what punch is the guy's set up punch, which foot he gets leverage off to throw what punch. Hopkins seems to innately know all these things or it sure looks that way, also he has extremely quick reflexes so he is very good at avoiding punches at a distance. All in all B-Hop's movement is so much more then just lateral movement, truly nobody has mastered the art of footwork the way Hopkins has, or if they have I have yet to see it.

Pavlik looked like the 43 year old and Hopkins looked like the 26 year old. The bottom line is Pavlik couldn't get near Hopkins, he just plodded round the ring and Hopkins boxed his head off. If your feet can't get you to where you need to be quick enough you've got problems against any boxer, never mind Hopkins. Maybe it was the extra ten pounds, maybe something else but whatever it was Pavlik wasn't the same fighter we've seen before.

Pavlik really seems to be taking this loss hard. He'll realize the error of his ways and come back strong. Wish he'd take this loss better though but who am I to say? I'm not a professional fighter.

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Pavlik looked like the 43 year old and Hopkins looked like the 26 year old. The bottom line is Pavlik couldn't get near Hopkins, he just plodded round the ring and Hopkins boxed his head off. If your feet can't get you to where you need to be quick enough you've got problems against any boxer, never mind Hopkins. Maybe it was the extra ten pounds, maybe something else but whatever it was Pavlik wasn't the same fighter we've seen before.

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Even guys with quicker feet then Hopkins have had troubles with him like Calzaghe. Some guys like him or Barrera or JMM just seem to know how to use footwork to make life difficult for opponents. I tend to see prodominently guys who used to be aggressive fighters having the best footwork as they get older because they aren't worried if they have to come forward, they also know what the guy coming forward is thinking/trying to do because they have done it so often. I think guys like Ray Leonard also had excellent footwork, but he moved a lot more then he needed to in some cases, while guys like Guillermo Rigondeaux have actually mastered the ability to move and punch at the same time, lead with either hand, etc ,etc. I think Hopkins really mastered the ability to negate opponents output, but also he had great timing and he sets everything up so well without even throwing a punch.

Pavliks father already said retirement is the next step if he doesn't get his head back in the game after this loss. We may see the end of pavlik folks

Did somebody actually ask when did Lateral movement stop a guy from throwing punches? UM... Ali, Leonard-Duran II, Hopkins-Trinidad, Mayweather-Corrales, Jones-Toney, ... the list goes on forever.

U cant blame Pavlik, he is just confused. He may not understand that Bernard doesnt lose against SLOW punchers. Round 7 shows it all, Pavlik is use to fighters throwing the old classic 1-2 which is the left followed by the right BUT Bernard gave him the not so classic 2-1 shoulder bump angle. That is the right hand(FIRST) Left hand second and then either a shoulder bump or a back off left jab. Pavlik was confused the same way u are right now about what I am saying, So U cant get mad at Pavlik because he was still confused when these people where asking him these questions. 1 month from now he will be singing a different tune if he is honest. I wasnt ranked 136 in the world at one time for nothing. I know how to lose and then deny that I lost, I was the master at that. Joppy kick my ass once in sparring and I blamed everything but Joppy. So he said lets do it again and he kicked my ass again and it took me 2 years to say it was his skill level that did it. FALSE FIGHTER PRIDE. I KNOW

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Takes time to get over a lose like that still young we while see. I like Pavlik but man does he have some work to do i feel Pavlik whiel come back better then Cotto who i think is done but could be wrong about it. I think Pavlik can still run on and be teh man at mw as for Cotto think he may turn out like Vargas but lets see how it goes on the comeback fights.

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dude wtf?!? Cotto lost a closer fight than Pavlik did :-\, i had the fight 119-109 for Hopkins, i had Cotto ahead into the 11th round, he's a tough dude, and doubt he'll be the next Vargas, i leave that spot for little Amir to fill