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Really...you think ???Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
It would have been dumb luck,but you can improve your own luck,coming in at the shape was not a huge help to Hatton.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepSo you are saying he COULD have won?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Hell if Manfreddy could have closed better he could have gotten Mayweather
If may only have two letters in it,but its a damned big word in boxing
What both of us are saying,is he would have taken his conditioning more seriously,Ricky is a crack the whip sort of fighter,and alot of that whip is holding his weight over his head. He bloats easy,and if you let him,he'll try to cheat down his weight using Sauna suits over training,he's more likely to train harder,if you need him in at a lighter weight then a greater one.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepI don't believe Manfredy had hurt Mayweather enough to close the show even if he jumped on him, did he hurt Mayweather? Yes but not as bad as people have been claiming lately. But that has nothing to do with this argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyIt would have been dumb luck,but you can improve your own luck,coming in at the shape was not a huge help to Hatton.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
Hell if Manfreddy could have closed better he could have gotten Mayweather
If may only have two letters in it,but its a damned big word in boxing
At this point I am just trying to understand your argument. You are saying that by Hatton fighting Mayweather at 140 he would have better luck and that would potentially change the outcome of the fight. Is that correct?
OK..........um...........again just trying to make sure I understand this argument and how it applies to the topic of the thread here, so bear with me. You are saying that he would have trained harder and been more conditioned and faster at 140, and that would have changed the outcome of the Mayweather fight because it would have improved his luck?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyWhat both of us are saying,is he would have taken his conditioning more seriously,Ricky is a crack the whip sort of fighter,and alot of that whip is holding his weight over his head. He bloats easy,and if you let him,he'll try to cheat down his weight using Sauna suits over training,he's more likely to train harder,if you need him in at a lighter weight then a greater one.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepI don't believe Manfredy had hurt Mayweather enough to close the show even if he jumped on him, did he hurt Mayweather? Yes but not as bad as people have been claiming lately. But that has nothing to do with this argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
At this point I am just trying to understand your argument. You are saying that by Hatton fighting Mayweather at 140 he would have better luck and that would potentially change the outcome of the fight. Is that correct?
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Originally Posted by bambamdaddioMate have you read my post you have just repeated what Ive said..Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
:badass::badass::badass:
its a similar statement, agreeing with a few people - just seen you are also from Leeds ;)
It was an excuse really he struggled with Collazo at 147lbs because he fought the wrong fight and made a hard fight of it he blamed the weight. Then he fought Mayweather at 147lbs and got knocked out partly he fought the wrong fight he was trying to hard smothering his own punches and end of the day it was Floyd Mayweather he was fighting P4P#1 in the world but again he blamed the weight. You can say Ricky is the bigger man because he walks around at 168-175lbs but its fat where Mayweather walks around at 154lbs and its solid muscle Ricky is 5ft 6inch and Floyd 5ft 8inch so in theory Mayweather is the bigger man even though he started at 130lbs but it is just an excuse really Ricky has proved this by saying he is willing to fight Oscar if he wins and he is a natural 154lbs fighter now and he is 5ft 11inch yet Oscar also started at 130lbs. I think Ricky's main problem is he changed his style to a bulldozing leading with his face style or should i say no style from the Kostya fight onwards to much body bag if you ask me thats why he struggled thing is he has strength advantage at 140lbs and got away with this style but at 147lbs these guys were as strong as him and his style was shot to pieces by them. Now he is with Mayweather and his style is getting better and will only get even better perhaps as well as strength he will have a good game plan and some technique and pull out a convincing win at 147lbs see when he fought Kostya is game plan was to hold and ruin his work keep his power out of the fight. Then after this fight Ricky was holding and mauling in all his fights getting away from Billy is the best thing he could have done he needs somebody who gives a plan B and C he had lost all his ring generalship but on Saturday it was plain to see he looked loads better and Mayweather will bring him back and more. One last thing away from the weight thing i think the body bag is what stopped his head movement just coming in hitting away at that big bag round billy's waist and while he was doing that Billy weren't giving him much to avoid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
A different ref would have seen Ricky go the distance in a similar manner as Paulie tried to do against Ricky, thats all.
Hatton belongs at 140 because thats where he is natually stronger than most of his opponents and being stronger is a big part of his game because he likes to swarm, hold, hit.
At 147 that part of his game isn't as effective because the guys are bigger and stronger their as it showed with Collazo and Mayweather.
To me though that isn't an excuse to why he lost to Mayweather.
I feel even at 140 Mayweather would put on a very similar performance because he is simply the bigger, smarter, better boxer.
I havent read any of the replies to this thread so i appologise if this has been said already...
I know opposing fighters weights can vary greatly from weigh-in to fight night but the weight itself could not of been an issue here as Both guys must of been weighing the same that night.
Maybe it was a case of Floyd being bigger than Ricky thought. It is apparent that Floyds frame had grown over the years and the mistake could have been made that although Ricky was moving up in weight, he assumed he was facing a naturally smaller man.
I personally dont like to call Floyd a naturally smaller man. Its akin to me saying Ricky Hatton is a natural Middleweight becuase he consumes copious amounts of pies and guiness in between fights :confused:
Floyd was, at one point, STARVING himself to malke 130. Fact.
If both guys kept in resonable shape im sure there'd only be a half-stone differential in weight.
Never the less, Knowledge is power....
I believe the real issue is that Floyd had some key experience prior to Hatton in beating Baldomir and Dela Hoya, who were so much bigger in the ring than Hatton.
Dela Hoya Specifically because not only was he bigger but he was, beleive it or not, the 1st guy in a championship fight (maybe any fight) to have a bigger reach than Floyd.
Also Floyd had the knowledge of Hatton's last visit up at WW :rolleyes:
Hatton would of stod a much bigger chance of winning IF the fight was made at 140 ONLY when Floyd was campainging at that weight. Floyd wouldn't of been so comfortable and Hattons pressure would of been more telling but Floyd would probably still come through just like he did with Castillo (albeit over 24 rounds) ;)
I remember Kerry Kayes saying before the fight when asked how Floyd has managed to gup in weight and stay lean and strong, he said that Floyd was probably starving himself, whereas Ricky does the weight quite easy, also Ricky started out boxing in a weight lifters gym so probably had a head start on the muscle growth, hes probably at his bodys best weight for boxing, whereas Floyd probably never got in to weights until much later and his body has now reached its best potential.
Rickys problem was arrogance, he looked at Floyd and saw a smaller fighter, he fought like he was the stranger man, he didnt try and box and rushed in to get countered, I see him being more effective in a rematch but I think hed still get caught too often and probably stopped.
I spoke to Ricky soon after the Floyd fight and he told me that when he saw Floyd at the weigh in he couldn't believe how big he was it may have been to late to change tactics but walking in to the ring he knew he was in with a bigger manQuote:
Originally Posted by ross
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Originally Posted by CFHBut the weight the fight took place at has nothing to do with it. You're essentially saying that Hatton is not professional enough to come into the biggest fight of his career in the best possible condition, but I have never seen any evidence of this at all nor have I ever read anything from a credible source suggesting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamdaddioQuote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
Spot on Bro .. simple as that :beerchug:
:badass::badass::badass:
Hatton was in the best possible shape for the Mayweather fight, in fact he weighed in well below the 147 limit with the stated goal of keeping that sharpness and that hunger.
OK so if the weight of thefight has nothing to do with it ... why then does Hatton continue & have the majority of his career at lite welter .. why not figjht at welter where there is more money why go down to lite welter again .. because it makes a difference to him ..why cant you understand that ... how many fights as hatton had at lite welter....how many has he had at welter....why ... because that division is his best division...its not hard to understand...
:badass::badass::badass:
Well said bro thats all I was saying is that he fights his best fight at lite welter ..who ever its against...not saying he would win at all thats open to everyones opinion...but more chance of giving a better account at lite welter...Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepSo you are saying he would have won more rounds? Or maybe see the final bell? Or maybe he had more of a punchers chance? If you are not saying he would win, then maybe I missed the original point of this topic as written by beanflicker:Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamdaddioSpot on Bro .. simple as that :beerchug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
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Originally Posted by beanflicker
:badass::badass::badass:
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Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyMore of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepSo you are saying he would have won more rounds? Or maybe see the final bell? Or maybe he had more of a punchers chance? If you are not saying he would win, then maybe I missed the original point of this topic as written by beanflicker:Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamdaddio
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Originally Posted by beanflicker
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF
Well said bro..
:badass::badass::badass:
Ok i'll have a go.....
Let's get this out of the way first.....Hatton wouldn't beat Mayweather at any weight. And this might not apply directly to Hatton-Mayweather but....
Sometimes a fighter who starts off at a much lower weight can actually be malnutritioned. Not in the sense that millions of people are in third world countries....just in a boxing sense.
The amount of carbohydrates required to enable you to go through a training camp for a period of 10-12 weeks is extortionate. Now if a fighter is training for 3 hours a day and not consuming enough carbohydrates, he will lose a lot of muscle mass......or he will not develop much...if any muscle mass if he is very light to begin with. It could be that Mayweather never previously gave himself the chance to fill out at a more natural weight....because he was under-eating and comfortable at his existing weight. This is something that does happen to fighters....especially those who are very conscious about making weight.
What this fighter will find is, that when he comes to moving up in weight, he finds the transition really easy as an increase in carbohydrate and protein allows him to easily add muscle mass.
Now the advantage this fighter will now possess at is new found weight, will likely be core strength.....especially over a fighter who is definitely fighting above his natural weight. An example of this would be at how Mayweather was stronger than Hatton on the inside.
Now people are going to say that Hatton's natural weight is well over 147. That's correct but how much of that is lean mass? Hardly any. It's practically all fat. So he'll have no advantage.
Anybody remember how much bigger Mayweather looked at the weigh in?
Anyway this theory might not have applied to this fight....because we don't know the ins and outs of Mayweather's training camp/diet etc...
Anyway it comes down to core strength, and just because a fighter was successful at a much lower weight, it doesn't necessarily mean that was his natural weight.
Like i say, may not have been the case with Floyd Mayweather. I'm pretty sure it's the case with Manny though. Maybe we'll see on dec 6th.
Personaly I dont thinks so, but then Im not God so who knows what fate holds...Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheepSo you are saying he COULD have won?Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer MonkeyMore of a punchers chance,and his activity rate would have been better,Ricky's activity rate seems to slow when he gets heavier,Floyd is not a fighter you can afford that against,because say what you wish about Floyd,his activity rate is top notch.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
Every time Ive seen Ricky carrying a few extra pounds he looks sluggish,and not at all fast off the mark.
Against a guy with an S-y chin maybe it wouldnt have made an ounce of difference,but that isnt PBF
:badass::badass::badass: