Calzaghe-Hagler?

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Originally Posted by ross

For me it all boils down to this,

Hagler couldnt overcome Leonard and im sure everyone will agree that Calzaghe would pose a hell of a lot more problems;)

Hes taller, stronger, works harder and probably has more power, he deffinitly did before his hands played up, you dont pout Eubank down in the first if you dont have power.

Also, I dont reckon Hagler would be powerfull enough to keep Joe off him, Hes taken flush shots off some big punchers and not budged and those that did hurt him were well beaten in return, Hopkins was forced to crawl around on the floor for refuge, Mitchell was stopped in the same round, Jones was just embarrassed, kessler was completely beffuddled and outworked.

Joe hasnt looked close to losing yet, to some big strong and good fighters, I dont see someone as small as Hagler doing it.

Eubank said after their match he was very surprised with Calzaghes power.

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Why do you keep bringing up the SRL fight ? Marvin Hagler was past his prime then, and he could of actually got the decision thats why its the most debated decision in history. And had it been 15 rounds like it would of been had SRL not got it changed, Marvin Hagler would of stopped SRL.

Secondly you haven't ever seen Joe Calzaghe hurt or look close to losing ? well i remember Joe Calzaghe getting dropped like a sack against a non puncher like Kabary Salem. And i also thought Joe Calzaghe lost to Robin Reid/Bernard Hopkins. When did Marvin Hagler ever look hurt again fighters the class of Kabary Salem ? and when did Marvin Hagler ever get a gift decision ?

Lastly RJJ was embarrassed yes and old shot one whos last good performance was in 2002, do you honestly think had that been a prime RJJ that Joe Calzaghe would of won ? and mostly everyone knew RJJ was a shot fighter thats why everyone called the fight a farce.

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Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

[you haven't ever seen Joe Calzaghe hurt or look close to losing ?

do you honestly think had that been a prime RJJ that Joe Calzaghe would of won ?

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Ive seen him knocked down but someone whos hurt does not get it back together that quick and out hustle or outbox their opponent imediately after?

Being close to losing is getting a draw, not a split decision win.

Yes I reckon Joe would would have done marginally less better against a younger Jones but dont forget Joe was a better fighter years ago as well, he had power then and hed always give Joes problems with his workrate and will.

Ray fought Hagler after 3 years out, he would have lost a step, imagine if hed been active;D It may have looked like Calzaghe Lacy;D

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Nonito Donaire

[you haven't ever seen Joe Calzaghe hurt or look close to losing ?

do you honestly think had that been a prime RJJ that Joe Calzaghe would of won ?

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Ive seen him knocked down but someone whos hurt does not get it back together that quick and out hustle or outbox their opponent imediately after?

Being close to losing is getting a draw, not a split decision win.

Yes I reckon Joe would would have done marginally less better against a younger Jones but dont forget Joe was a better fighter years ago as well, he had power then and hed always give Joes problems with his workrate and will.

Ray fought Hagler after 3 years out, he would have lost a step, imagine if hed been active;D It may have looked like Calzaghe Lacy;D

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Joe Calzaghe was hurt throughout the entire round against Kabary Salem, secondly winning a split decision isn't close to losing what the hell ? i don't get that logic at all can you explain that one for me ?

SRL was smart he only fought Marvin Hagler after he see John Mugabi vs Marvin Hagler. He'd seen Marvin Hagler had slowed down quite alot, and he saw a great chance, he also got everything he wanted the gloves, ring size, rounds, ETC.

Im not even going to reply to the last comment because thats a wind up comment, but your other comment was ridiculous. "Marginally less better" against a prime RJJ are you frigging kidding me ?

Go watch a prime RJJ then go watch the RJJ of the last few years, its like its two different fighters. Lastly Joe Calzaghe did have better speed/power when he was younger, but he didn't have no where near the smart boxing brain he has had in the last few years.

After reading a few but not all of the posts on this thread one thing is very clear.


A lot of posters have only watched one or two of Haglers fights.I am guessing the Hearns fight,SRL fight and maybe the Minter fight coz thats when he won the title.

If you watch Haglers many other fights you will realise that Hagler is not a devestating 1 punch fighter.

He wore his opponents down with lots of good well placed hard shots and kept his power in to the latter rounds.

At times he was also happy to outbox opponents rather than try to stop them


Because of the way he won over Hearns I think some people think he is like a middleweight Tyson.

A split decision win isnt as close to losing as a draw because a draw is a draw not a win, a split decision win is a win, more judges thought that Joe wan, a draw could go either way, therefore if Joe ever drew his opponent would be the only person to have done as much as he did to get the same result, we will have to wait and see if there is anyone capable of doing more than Joe to get the win:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ross

A split decision win isnt as close to losing as a draw because a draw is a draw not a win, a split decision win is a win, more judges thought that Joe wan, a draw could go either way, therefore if Joe ever drew his opponent would be the only person to have done as much as he did to get the same result, we will have to wait and see if there is anyone capable of doing more than Joe to get the win:rolleyes:

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Just because a fight is a draw doesn't mean its closer, take Pernell Whitaker vs Julio Cesar Chavez was that closer just because it was a draw ? thats stupid logic it depends on the situation of a certain fight. Bernard Hopkins/Robin Reid fights were very close and Joe Calzaghe did almost lose both, and IMO he did lose both.

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Originally Posted by porkypara

After reading a few but not all of the posts on this thread one thing is very clear.


A lot of posters have only watched one or two of Haglers fights.I am guessing the Hearns fight,SRL fight and maybe the Minter fight coz thats when he won the title.

If you watch Haglers many other fights you will realise that Hagler is not a devestating 1 punch fighter.

He wore his opponents down with lots of good well placed hard shots and kept his power in to the latter rounds.

At times he was also happy to outbox opponents rather than try to stop them


Because of the way he won over Hearns I think some people think he is like a middleweight Tyson.

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Marvin only went the distance with Duran , then when alot slower and past his best , Leonard.He koed all his other challengers.
Marvin did have good boxing skills , also he could eat punches and chase a fighter down , something Calzaghe could never do , even againest poor oponants.
Calzaghe is a good fighter for sure , but im sorry i do not accept he could have beaten Marvin , based on the fact he beat a shot Jones , 43 Hopkins , and Kessler.

For the record i have nearly all Marvin Hagler's fights.

How many have you seen where Hagler fights a 12 stone fighter that can throw over a 100 punches a round with ease?

Hagler actually performed better against larger men and fighter who came at him.

Of course we've been over this, but Hagler was way past his best in the Leonard fight. Also, Leonard presents an entirely different set of challenges than Calzaghe. Like I said before, Hagler was great against guys who would come at him. Also, Hagler lost the Leonard fight just as much as Leonard won it by starting out slow and playing around with him. He gave away the first three rounds completely and it cost him the fight. But I digress.

As far as Hagler's size, he's about the same size as Robin Reid. And Calzaghe came pretty close to that fight. Say what you want, but when he was champion, he DESTROYED guys on Reids level, people like Minter, Anterfuermo, Hamsho, and Fuli Obel.

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by porkypara

After reading a few but not all of the posts on this thread one thing is very clear.


A lot of posters have only watched one or two of Haglers fights.I am guessing the Hearns fight,SRL fight and maybe the Minter fight coz thats when he won the title.

If you watch Haglers many other fights you will realise that Hagler is not a devestating 1 punch fighter.

He wore his opponents down with lots of good well placed hard shots and kept his power in to the latter rounds.

At times he was also happy to outbox opponents rather than try to stop them


Because of the way he won over Hearns I think some people think he is like a middleweight Tyson.

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Marvin only went the distance with Duran , then when alot slower and past his best , Leonard.He koed all his other challengers.
Marvin did have good boxing skills , also he could eat punches and chase a fighter down , something Calzaghe could never do , even againest poor oponants.
Calzaghe is a good fighter for sure , but im sorry i do not accept he could have beaten Marvin , based on the fact he beat a shot Jones , 43 Hopkins , and Kessler.

For the record i have nearly all Marvin Hagler's fights.

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If you asked me who has acomplished more in there carrer and is the better all round fighter I would say Hagler.

But as the saying goes " styles make fights" and Calzaghe has the style and skills to beat Hagler.

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Originally Posted by porkypara

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by porkypara

After reading a few but not all of the posts on this thread one thing is very clear.


A lot of posters have only watched one or two of Haglers fights.I am guessing the Hearns fight,SRL fight and maybe the Minter fight coz thats when he won the title.

If you watch Haglers many other fights you will realise that Hagler is not a devestating 1 punch fighter.

He wore his opponents down with lots of good well placed hard shots and kept his power in to the latter rounds.

At times he was also happy to outbox opponents rather than try to stop them


Because of the way he won over Hearns I think some people think he is like a middleweight Tyson.

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Marvin only went the distance with Duran , then when alot slower and past his best , Leonard.He koed all his other challengers.
Marvin did have good boxing skills , also he could eat punches and chase a fighter down , something Calzaghe could never do , even againest poor oponants.
Calzaghe is a good fighter for sure , but im sorry i do not accept he could have beaten Marvin , based on the fact he beat a shot Jones , 43 Hopkins , and Kessler.

For the record i have nearly all Marvin Hagler's fights.

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If you asked me who has acomplished more in there carrer and is the better all round fighter I would say Hagler.

But as the saying goes " styles make fights" and Calzaghe has the style and skills to beat Hagler.

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Hey Porkmiester , i respect your opinion , but i feel that if a guy like Reid can pressure and almost beat a prime Calzaghe , and Byron Mitchell can knock down a prime Calzaghe , i feel a prime Hagler would walk through him.
But hey its all about opinions.
;D

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by porkypara

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Marvin only went the distance with Duran , then when alot slower and past his best , Leonard.He koed all his other challengers.
Marvin did have good boxing skills , also he could eat punches and chase a fighter down , something Calzaghe could never do , even againest poor oponants.
Calzaghe is a good fighter for sure , but im sorry i do not accept he could have beaten Marvin , based on the fact he beat a shot Jones , 43 Hopkins , and Kessler.

For the record i have nearly all Marvin Hagler's fights.

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If you asked me who has acomplished more in there carrer and is the better all round fighter I would say Hagler.

But as the saying goes " styles make fights" and Calzaghe has the style and skills to beat Hagler.

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Hey Porkmiester , i respect your opinion , but i feel that if a guy like Reid can pressure and almost beat a prime Calzaghe , and Byron Mitchell can knock down a prime Calzaghe , i feel a prime Hagler would walk through him.
But hey its all about opinions.

;D

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All fighter get knocked down from time to time and have hard fights against lower level fighters.

Calzaghe has all the things that you need to beat Hagler.

1-Speed of hand and foot.

2-Great boxing skills and able to control a fight

3-Great chin


But like you said its all down to opinons.

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Originally Posted by porkypara

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

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Originally Posted by porkypara

After reading a few but not all of the posts on this thread one thing is very clear.


A lot of posters have only watched one or two of Haglers fights.I am guessing the Hearns fight,SRL fight and maybe the Minter fight coz thats when he won the title.

If you watch Haglers many other fights you will realise that Hagler is not a devestating 1 punch fighter.

He wore his opponents down with lots of good well placed hard shots and kept his power in to the latter rounds.

At times he was also happy to outbox opponents rather than try to stop them


Because of the way he won over Hearns I think some people think he is like a middleweight Tyson.

---

Marvin only went the distance with Duran , then when alot slower and past his best , Leonard.He koed all his other challengers.
Marvin did have good boxing skills , also he could eat punches and chase a fighter down , something Calzaghe could never do , even againest poor oponants.
Calzaghe is a good fighter for sure , but im sorry i do not accept he could have beaten Marvin , based on the fact he beat a shot Jones , 43 Hopkins , and Kessler.

For the record i have nearly all Marvin Hagler's fights.

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If you asked me who has acomplished more in there carrer and is the better all round fighter I would say Hagler.

But as the saying goes " styles make fights" and Calzaghe has the style and skills to beat Hagler.

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Actually I disagree, and I think you're perception of this comes from the Lacy fight and thinking that Hagler is somehow a Lacy-style fighter. He wasn't. Lacy didn't have a quarter of the boxing and countering skill of Hagler. He just bullrushed guys. Even Peter Manfredo was outboxing him for 4 rounds.

Hagler has the style to beat Calzaghe. Hagler had the chin to accept whatever Calzaghe could dish out and all those punches Calzaghe throws are more chances for Hagler to counter. When people think counterpuncher now, they think James Toney, Mayweather, or Chris Byrd, fighter would counter and potshot. Hagler would box until he saw his open counter, and continue forward with aggressive pressure. He was also great at cutting off the ring. Can you imagine what Hagler would do Calzaghe in the corners? If Calzaghe got rocked like he did against Jones or Salem, Marvin would have been able to press the advantage effectively. He was a master of that.

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Originally Posted by RozzySean

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Originally Posted by porkypara

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Marvin only went the distance with Duran , then when alot slower and past his best , Leonard.He koed all his other challengers.
Marvin did have good boxing skills , also he could eat punches and chase a fighter down , something Calzaghe could never do , even againest poor oponants.
Calzaghe is a good fighter for sure , but im sorry i do not accept he could have beaten Marvin , based on the fact he beat a shot Jones , 43 Hopkins , and Kessler.

For the record i have nearly all Marvin Hagler's fights.

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If you asked me who has acomplished more in there carrer and is the better all round fighter I would say Hagler.

But as the saying goes " styles make fights" and Calzaghe has the style and skills to beat Hagler.

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Actually I disagree, and I think you're perception of this comes from the Lacy fight and thinking that Hagler is somehow a Lacy-style fighter. He wasn't. Lacy didn't have a quarter of the boxing and countering skill of Hagler. He just bullrushed guys. Even Peter Manfredo was outboxing him for 4 rounds.

Hagler has the style to beat Calzaghe. Hagler had the chin to accept whatever Calzaghe could dish out and all those punches Calzaghe throws are more chances for Hagler to counter. When people think counterpuncher now, they think James Toney, Mayweather, or Chris Byrd, fighter would counter and potshot. Hagler would box until he saw his open counter, and continue forward with aggressive pressure. He was also great at cutting off the ring. Can you imagine what Hagler would do Calzaghe in the corners? If Calzaghe got rocked like he did against Jones or Salem, Marvin would have been able to press the advantage effectively. He was a master of that.

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Mate,to compair Hagler with Lacy is a discrace.:rolleyes:

Yeah, Lacy actually wan a world title above middleweight and got beat by the best supermiddle and not a welter;D;)