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Well he did call Ice an imbecile ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
I haven't noticed him insulting anyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
For the record, I happen to agree with everything Bilbo said regarding MMA vs. Boxing. I've said similar things in the past.
There was somebody else a few days ago. I can't remember who. Or maybe I'm mixing things up.
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Originally Posted by OumaFanWell he did call Ice an imbecile ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CFHI haven't noticed him insulting anyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
For the record, I happen to agree with everything Bilbo said regarding MMA vs. Boxing. I've said similar things in the past.
There was somebody else a few days ago. I can't remember who. Or maybe I'm mixing things up.
Well he has been on a tear lately, and was trying to disembowel AdamGB about the catchweight thing.;D
During my time here on Saddos I've seen a lot of the boxing vs mma threads and I have to say this is the most civil and rationale discussion I have ever seen.
He didn't create UFC, he revived it.Quote:
Originally Posted by JazMerkinThe guy who created UFCQuote:
Originally Posted by miles
Edit: Also known as that bald prick you see parading around
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Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleswhen people that have no previous experience in professional combat sports, Bob Sapp, Lesnar, Lashley, etc., go on to become "real threats" and have "lucrative" careers in the sport, well it doesn't say much good, and yea that's 1 former pro football/part time actor, and 2 former WWE wrestlersQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboHow has Mercer little to no experience in boxing he was a former heavyweight world champ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
And if you mean as I think you mean that Mercer was entering into an MMA contest so you mean show you a 50 year MMA star with no experience in boxing that could beat Floyd in a boxing fight, then you need to know that the Silvia Mercer fight was not an MMA fight.
It was sanctioned as a boxing fight until the authorities wouldn't allow that so it then became an MMA bout officialy but Slyvia pledged to keep it just to boxing, with only punches, so it was an almost 50 year old former world champ knocking out a 35ish year old with little to no boxing experience, basically the opposite point of what you are arguing.
Also have you ever stopped to consider that the reason its harder to make the transition to world class in boxing is because in boxing every other form of combat is outlawed?
If a world class boxer goes into MMA he is still allowed to box, but if a world class ju jitsu or greco roman wrestler enters boxing all of his skills are effectively outlawed so of course it would be harder.
Brock Lesnar wouldn't make it to heavyweight champ in boxing because his core advantage in MMA, wrestling and that sheer overpowering physicality would be outlawed in boxing. He'd just have to stand up and punch and his lack of experience would see him getting owned.
Put him in a ring with either Klitschko where its anything goes however and my money is on Brock coming out on top. They would have to land one on him quick before he got to them else they are being pounded and brutalised on the ground.
Maybe they would do better than that I don't know, they are very big strong guys themselves after all, my point is though that its much easier to make the transition from boxing to MMA because you have already mastered one aspect of mixed martial arts, i.e use of the fists. For an MMA star however much of what they have learned is usueless to them in boxing because its not allowed.
Right because all of the former convicts in boxing that go on to be champs show all that's right with boxing. You are talking about professional athletes just the same. Terrible example.
Actually I thought he made an valid example. He's talking about the experience. Name me an incident in boxing where a guy virtually has no experience becomes an undisputed champion in any weight class. You can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgameQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleswhen people that have no previous experience in professional combat sports, Bob Sapp, Lesnar, Lashley, etc., go on to become "real threats" and have "lucrative" careers in the sport, well it doesn't say much good, and yea that's 1 former pro football/part time actor, and 2 former WWE wrestlersQuote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
Right because all of the former convicts in boxing that go on to be champs show all that's right with boxing. You are talking about professional athletes just the same. Terrible example.
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Originally Posted by LEGIONQuote:
Originally Posted by OumaFanWell he did call Ice an imbecile ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by CFH
There was somebody else a few days ago. I can't remember who. Or maybe I'm mixing things up.
Well he has been on a tear lately, and was trying to disembowel AdamGB about the catchweight thing.;D
Adam was asking for it. Seriously I was considering getting a longer cord for my life support system so I could step inside the ropes and give him what for.
Very well.....Dana is allowed to talk about how Floyd "isn't a superstar" when and if one of his own fighters makes Floyd Mayweather Jr. kind of money, until then MMA needs to know it's role and have that bald headed prick shut the fuck up! That guy gets mad at Brock Lesnar for going all WWE after his win, it's DANA WHITE that makes sure MMA remains a laughing stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
You would never catch Roger Goddell, Bud Selig, or David Stern doing anything that Dana White has done. Plain and simple, Dana feels slighted by boxing, and is out to get the sport that denied him and well he's just going to have a tough time with it....here right now in the PRIME of UFC they still can't pull in the money like boxing can.
And what's funny is that their highest paid stars gets paid in the low hundred thousands while boxing's top stars are paid in the tens of millions with a slice of the PPV revenue. I remember reading awhile back a report that compared boxing's PPV revenue in 2007 compared to the UFC's PPV buys and 2 fights, the Oscar-Floyd fight and the Hatton-Floyd fight almost outdid all of the PPV buys of the UFC, and mind you UFC has like 1 major PPV fight a month. I think the UFC only had 1 or 2 events that surpassed 1 million buys. Whent he HW division had an abundance of stars in the 90s, they regularly passed the 1 million mark easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by LyleVery well.....Dana is allowed to talk about how Floyd "isn't a superstar" when and if one of his own fighters makes Floyd Mayweather Jr. kind of money, until then MMA needs to know it's role and have that bald headed prick shut the fuck up! That guy gets mad at Brock Lesnar for going all WWE after his win, it's DANA WHITE that makes sure MMA remains a laughing stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
You would never catch Roger Goddell, Bud Selig, or David Stern doing anything that Dana White has done. Plain and simple, Dana feels slighted by boxing, and is out to get the sport that denied him and well he's just going to have a tough time with it....here right now in the PRIME of UFC they still can't pull in the money like boxing can.
The so called reason why the MMA world is supposedly more popular now than boxing is because the Heavywieght division doesn't have an exciting star that can capture the public and the rest of the sporting world. If there was an HW out there on the horizon with the talent of a young ALi, Tyson, Holyfield, Foreman, the MMA sports world will crawl back in the shithole they were in for many years before they seemed to capture momentum when the HW division was on the downside.
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Originally Posted by generalbulldogActually I thought he made an valid example. He's talking about the experience. Name me an incident in boxing where a guy virtually has no experience becomes an undisputed champion in any weight class. You can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgameQuote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
Right because all of the former convicts in boxing that go on to be champs show all that's right with boxing. You are talking about professional athletes just the same. Terrible example.
Seriously you are a bigger imbecile than ice :D
Let's suggest a few names. Erm Rocky Marciano! Started as an amatuer at age 23, turned pro at 25. Was undispute and one of the greatest of all time.
Jess Willard was a strong man and never put on gloves until he was 30 years old. He was good enough to knock out Jack Johnson.
If ypu want a more recent example then how about the Rock?
Hasim Raham never put on a pair of gloves until he was 20 years old, he was just a drug runner before that. He was became an undisputed champ.
Kermit Cintron was a wrestler until he was 19, had never boxed, has done pretty well.
Antony Mundine had 4 amatuer fights at 17 then took up a pro rugby career returning to boxing only at age 25.
All the guys I've mentioned so far have been or currently are world champs.
In the uk we have a 38 year old taxi driver called Marty Rogan who only started boxing in 2004, he became Commonwealth champ and knocked out Matt Skelton which Ruslan Chagaev couldn't do.
Are you starting to feel silly yet? :dunce:
All the guys you mentioned have experience by gaining it, it doesn't matter if they started their boxing careers late, but they had to gain experience. Now name me 1 guy in boxing that virtually had no experience in it and became an undisputed world champion after 1 or 2 fights. You can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogActually I thought he made an valid example. He's talking about the experience. Name me an incident in boxing where a guy virtually has no experience becomes an undisputed champion in any weight class. You can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by luvfightgame
Seriously you are a bigger imbecile than ice :D
Let's suggest a few names. Erm Rocky Marciano! Started as an amatuer at age 23, turned pro at 25. Was undispute and one of the greatest of all time.
Jess Willard was a strong man and never put on gloves until he was 30 years old. He was good enough to knock out Jack Johnson.
If ypu want a more recent example then how about the Rock?
Hasim Raham never put on a pair of gloves until he was 20 years old, he was just a drug runner before that. He was became an undisputed champ.
Kermit Cintron was a wrestler until he was 19, had never boxed, has done pretty well.
Antony Mundine had 4 amatuer fights at 17 then took up a pro rugby career returning to boxing only at age 25.
All the guys I've mentioned so far have been or currently are world champs.
In the uk we have a 38 year old taxi driver called Marty Rogan who only started boxing in 2004, he became Commonwealth champ and knocked out Matt Skelton which Ruslan Chagaev couldn't do.
Are you starting to feel silly yet? :dunce:
And if you're going to use Leon Spinks as an example, that guy had an standout amateur career and was an olympic gold medalist, so he was well schooled in boxing.
Now name me 1, just 1 boxer that doesn't have almost no experience either at the amatuer or pro level and then become undisputed champion after 1 or 2 fights.
What are you on about, who has become an undisputed mixed martial artist after 1 or 2 bouts, and don't use Brock Lesnar because he was a world class wrestlerQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogAll the guys you mentioned have experience by gaining it, it doesn't matter if they started their boxing careers late, but they had to gain experience. Now name me 1 guy in boxing that virtually had no experience in it and became an undisputed world champion after 1 or 2 fights. You can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Seriously you are a bigger imbecile than ice :D
Let's suggest a few names. Erm Rocky Marciano! Started as an amatuer at age 23, turned pro at 25. Was undispute and one of the greatest of all time.
Jess Willard was a strong man and never put on gloves until he was 30 years old. He was good enough to knock out Jack Johnson.
If ypu want a more recent example then how about the Rock?
Hasim Raham never put on a pair of gloves until he was 20 years old, he was just a drug runner before that. He was became an undisputed champ.
Kermit Cintron was a wrestler until he was 19, had never boxed, has done pretty well.
Antony Mundine had 4 amatuer fights at 17 then took up a pro rugby career returning to boxing only at age 25.
All the guys I've mentioned so far have been or currently are world champs.
In the uk we have a 38 year old taxi driver called Marty Rogan who only started boxing in 2004, he became Commonwealth champ and knocked out Matt Skelton which Ruslan Chagaev couldn't do.
Are you starting to feel silly yet? :dunce:
And if you're going to use Leon Spinks as an example, that guy had an standout amateur career and was an olympic gold medalist, so he was well schooled in boxing.
Now name me 1, just 1 boxer that doesn't have almost no experience either at the amatuer or pro level and then become undisputed champion after 1 or 2 fights.
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Originally Posted by LyleVery well.....Dana is allowed to talk about how Floyd "isn't a superstar" when and if one of his own fighters makes Floyd Mayweather Jr. kind of money, until then MMA needs to know it's role and have that bald headed prick shut the fuck up! That guy gets mad at Brock Lesnar for going all WWE after his win, it's DANA WHITE that makes sure MMA remains a laughing stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeth
You would never catch Roger Goddell, Bud Selig, or David Stern doing anything that Dana White has done. Plain and simple, Dana feels slighted by boxing, and is out to get the sport that denied him and well he's just going to have a tough time with it....here right now in the PRIME of UFC they still can't pull in the money like boxing can.
I don't think the UFC or MMA in general has hit aywhere near its prime yet Lyle.
Who knows; maybe it has, but imo it is still a fledgling sport and compard to boxing in its infancy. The sport has only really become legit in the last 6-8 years or so. Dana saved the sport because he knows how to market it and busts his ass promoting it, and damn if he hasn't made leaps and bounds and each year it becomes bigger and bigger.
Dana is a jackass though personality wise and I really can't stomach him personally; but he's good at what he does. Whether or not he feels slighted by boxing or not is irrelevant because he's quickly making boxing take a back seat to MMA{from a mainstream point of view}and in 10 years time no telling how big it will be. Lesnar made 3 million his last fight and no telling how much these guys will get down the line.
Why not use Lesnar? He's the face of the UFC right? And the UFC is the most popular MMA league is it not? The guy was undisputed HW champion after 1 or 2 fights.Quote:
Originally Posted by BilboWhat are you on about, who has become an undisputed mixed martial artist after 1 or 2 bouts, and don't use Brock Lesnar because he was a world class wrestlerQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogAll the guys you mentioned have experience by gaining it, it doesn't matter if they started their boxing careers late, but they had to gain experience. Now name me 1 guy in boxing that virtually had no experience in it and became an undisputed world champion after 1 or 2 fights. You can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
And if you're going to use Leon Spinks as an example, that guy had an standout amateur career and was an olympic gold medalist, so he was well schooled in boxing.
Now name me 1, just 1 boxer that doesn't have almost no experience either at the amatuer or pro level and then become undisputed champion after 1 or 2 fights.
Now name me 1 guy in boxing that was an undisputed champion in his weight class after 1 or 2 pro bouts without almost no experience. Can you do it? The guys you listed like Marciano became champs after extensively building up their pro records and gaining expereince. Marciano became champ after 40+ pro bouts, not 1 or 2 like the UFC.
So name me 1 guy in boxing that was an undisputed champ in his weight class after 1 or 2 fights. SInce you wanted to argue this point with me.
also back to what you said about Mercer, when the hell was Ray Mercer Heavyweight champ? he never won a world title, and as for Sapp giving anybody probs due to his size, ummm Sapp is like the MMA version of McCline, and well don't have to get too much into details thereQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboBut seriously how can you not see that somebody like Bob Sapp, who is a freaking man mountain wouldn't be quite succesful in a sport where anything goes?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoraleshow many world title shots did Rourke get?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
and you said it a former K1 kickBOXING star turned pro boxer, kickboxing is a combat sport, not some some road show with men in tights who claim to be in brutal matches, yet defend their titles weekly :-X, Vitali Klitschko was a world champion in both boxing and kickboxing
His monstrous size wouldn't matter in boxing because he couldn't use it to his advantage but in MMA he can do what he wants with it.
The point you completely fail to understand is that not just MMA fighters would have trouble with Bob Sapp in an MMA fight but BOXERS would struggle with him in an MMA fight as well.
Boxing is a very very restricted combat sport. The reason it's harder to master boxing is that you have to be versed in those specifics, any other combat skills are irelevent.
To use an army analogy its like saying that an armoured jeep is better than a tank because it could thrash a tank in a road race and could beat it around some offroad terrain too.
Of course this would be missing the point that both an armoured jeep and tank are built for offroad conditions so of course the jeep could well offroad, but it ignores the fact that the tank has some pretty fucking kickass firepower that isn't being displayed in these tests.
Boxing is a part of MMA so a boxer can use his skills in MMA, whereas kicking, ju jitsu, wrestling etc are not part of boxing so an mixed martial artist cannot use his skills in a boxing ring.
It's so obvious to anyone with even two brain cells to rub together :)
same way you through in Skelton a former K1 fighter Cung Li should be thrown into that same category and yea he's the WEC middleweight champ after only like 3 pro MMA boutsQuote:
Originally Posted by BilboWhat are you on about, who has become an undisputed mixed martial artist after 1 or 2 bouts, and don't use Brock Lesnar because he was a world class wrestlerQuote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldogAll the guys you mentioned have experience by gaining it, it doesn't matter if they started their boxing careers late, but they had to gain experience. Now name me 1 guy in boxing that virtually had no experience in it and became an undisputed world champion after 1 or 2 fights. You can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo
And if you're going to use Leon Spinks as an example, that guy had an standout amateur career and was an olympic gold medalist, so he was well schooled in boxing.
Now name me 1, just 1 boxer that doesn't have almost no experience either at the amatuer or pro level and then become undisputed champion after 1 or 2 fights.