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Fanjohn - If you are throwing out weight classes and insisting on a catchweight of an exact lb figure then do we fine Pacquiao for coming in under also or is this just a one-sided thing?
$1million for every lb that the fighter varies from 145 in either direction - it starts to become a bit ridiculous doesn't it - thats one of the reasons why we have weight classes.
Thank you thank you thank you, isn't anyone getting the whole point here is that people like Roach are screwing with the set weights and trying to make a call on where an opponent comes in.They are called division for a reason apart from the SRL debacle i don't remember the last time there was a fight across actual divisions , I think the huggers really do think that Pac has a right to call out someone at HW as long as he is under the limit for HW !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
You would do.Quote:
Originally Posted by fanjohnThat's totally wrong for it means JMM can come at 135 against Floyd who can come at 147 or Pacquiao coming in at 140 against Cotto who can come in at 147. I think you can clearly see that there has to be a compromise weight somewhere in the middle like 144 for Floyd-JMM and 145 for Pacquiao-Cotto.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I think 145 is just fine and fair for Floyd-Pacquiao fight.
remind us what the RANGE for the WW division is? Both fighters should be allowed to weigh-in within that range. That's why it's a WW division rather than one set weight that Freddie Roach decides will handicap their opponent.
You're right the 144 catchweight of Floyd-JMM fight was too wide that you will have difficulties justifying it and I was surprised that fight was even allowed to take place.Quote:
Originally Posted by milesIt's not wrong because it is adhering to the weight classes that we all recognise. In this case the WW limit. Of course, it would never be acceptable to have LW Marquez fighting a WW Mayweather. That wasn't what I was arguing anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by fanjohnThat's totally wrong for it means JMM can come at 135 against Floyd who can come at 147 or Pacquiao coming in at 140 against Cotto who can come in at 147. I think you can clearly see that there has to be a compromise weight somewhere in the middle like 144 for Floyd-JMM and 145 for Pacquiao-Cotto.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I think 145 is just fine and fair for Floyd-Pacquiao fight.
I think a cap at 147 is perfectly acceptable and if either party wants to come in lighter than that then fair enough. I don't see anything controversial in what I am saying here.
So we'll look at the 145 catchweight of Pacquiao-Cotto instead. Pacquiao considered a 140 lb boxer move up 5 lbs to 145 while Cotto, a 147 lb boxer move down 2 lbs to 145. Wasn't it a fair catchweight? I say yes.
Come to think of it, if 145 is fair for Pacquiao-Cotto, how much more for Pacquiao-Floyd?
I thought i heard Pacquiao stated ,in one of the interviews after his big win vs. Cotto,that he will no longer climb up in weight on his next bout.And i guess this is at 145lbs.
From what I understood from Roach, Floyd can weigh-in at 147 (or 146) if he wants to but he has to pay some penalties. Roach is only asking Floyd to weigh-in at 145 if he can (Cotto just did). The fight will still go on even if Floyd weigh-in at 147 and it will be called off if Floyd weigh-in over 147.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyYou would do.Quote:
Originally Posted by fanjohnThat's totally wrong for it means JMM can come at 135 against Floyd who can come at 147 or Pacquiao coming in at 140 against Cotto who can come in at 147. I think you can clearly see that there has to be a compromise weight somewhere in the middle like 144 for Floyd-JMM and 145 for Pacquiao-Cotto.Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
I think 145 is just fine and fair for Floyd-Pacquiao fight.
remind us what the RANGE for the WW division is? Both fighters should be allowed to weigh-in within that range. That's why it's a WW division rather than one set weight that Freddie Roach decides will handicap their opponent.
Like what GBP/Floyd labeled it for the Floyd-JMM fight weight, it's a "welterweight" fight.
I never agreed to Pacquiao fighting Cotto for a 147 belt at 145 but I don't see the problem with Roach calling out Mayweather at 145. I do see a problem if this fight will be for that same 147 belt (which it undoubtebly will) as this will just further turn the idea of weight classes into a sad commercial joke. However I think this fight
would be fought at 147 and Roach is just trying to gain leverage. However, I do think this fight will be lost at the negotiation table and that Pacquiao and Mayweather will only meet once if they both suffer notable losses.
That's very kind of Mr. Roach who died and made him God of all things boxing? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by fanjohnFrom what I understood from Roach, Floyd can weigh-in at 147 (or 146) if he wants to but he has to pay some penalties. Roach is only asking Floyd to weigh-in at 145 if he can (Cotto just did). The fight will still go on even if Floyd weigh-in at 147 and it will be called off if Floyd weigh-in over 147.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad MissyYou would do.Quote:
Originally Posted by fanjohn
remind us what the RANGE for the WW division is? Both fighters should be allowed to weigh-in within that range. That's why it's a WW division rather than one set weight that Freddie Roach decides will handicap their opponent.
Like what GBP/Floyd labeled it for the Floyd-JMM fight weight, it's a "welterweight" fight.
More garbage from Roach and garbage if anyone agrees with him, I'd ban anyone who agreed with it for crimes against sense and boxing.
I have absolutely no problem with the Pacman weighing 145, but if he's fighting at welterweight, then his opposition should damn well be able to weight up to the limit of 147, this should not even be up for debate really. It was dissapointing enough to see Cotto get the thumbed into fighting at 145. It must stay a one off man......
On the other hand, if there is one guy who will just say "see you later" to a stupid weight demand its Mayweather. He'll please himself i would have thought and go fight someone else.
Most people seem to have missed my main problem. It is not the wanting to bring Mayweather down to 145, although that pisses me off as it did with the Cotto fight, it is saying Marquez has to come up to 145. What so Pacquiao can't make 140, but he's too small for 147?
If he's too small, then fight Marquez at 140. If he can't make that fight Mayweather at 147.
Someone mentioned the fight-night weigh-ins for Mayweather-Marquez, apparently Ring Magazine were allowed to weigh both & gave the weights in their latest issue, Marquez was 147 & Mayweather was 152. You can check that in their latest issue.
Btw, I should say welcome back XaduBoxer, where did you come up with the name fanjohn?
Roach wants Pac to fight small fighters at a higher weights and big fighters at lower weights its all BS.
i agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by themacmagician
See roach is full of s*** for this catch weight crap. He stated that he wants pacman to weigt 145 pounds for the fight with mayweather. last time I checked that qualified him as a welterweight, meaning from 141-147 is legal weight limit. So why does everyone have to weight this stupid catch weight that Roach wants or suffer a fine? Especially since the people who hes imposed this on would all weight in at the 147 that they are legally allowed to and still be considered a "welterweight". Pacman isnt the first person in history to move up in weight divisons and not weight the limit of the weight and fight bigger people. Hell, rjj won the heavyweight world title at 193, he didnt try to make ruiz weight in at 200 or some bs. Mayweather gets crap for his duckin people and fighting little people like he should but pacman needs to get called out on this crap.
I think Roach's main worry is that Mayweather will do what he did last time and delibratley come in over to gain an advantage.
They could set the weight at 144, but if Mayweather thinks "fuck it, my record is more important" he'll sacrafice maybe £3m of the £25m he'll prob make. Then make even more because he has won from being far heavier.
It is just negociation tools and to secure a way Floyd won't be able to get loose like what he did with JMM. As for the JMM thing, the message is very simple: We want Mayweather next and we aren't interested at fighting JMM right now". Just negociation tools and a way to cut the fat you don't want in your recipe in order to get the one you want served on a plate.
If its a WW fight, then theres no reason why Pac's opponents should have to come in under the limit. I disagreed with Cotto's belt being on the line last week when he couldn't come in on the WW limit. The weight ranges from 141-147, so any fight for the title should allow for both fighters to weigh in at any weight in that range. As for the Marquez fight only being able to happen at 145, thats because Roach saw that Marquez doesn't carry the weight up well from the Mayweather fight. If Pac-Marquez III happned at LW then Marquez would cause Pac the same problems he did in their first two fights, and Roach would want a convincing win to prove his man's better. I think whoever Pac fights next theres going to be a huge issue over the weight and it'll end up being fought at a catchweight, which is wrong especially if the belt was on the line