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....no it's the cause of and solution to all of life's troubles.Quote:
Originally Posted by smashup
This is a really tragic day for boxing....and it's not like Edwin wasn't offered help either. This was TOTALLY avoidable!!! I bet you money either Edwin had brain damage from his accident (forms of which can make your emotions hard to control) which would have been exacerbated by boxing or the guy was bi-polar or schizo and was "self medicating" with alcohol and perhaps other drugs.
It has nothing to do with boxing.
Valero was clearly a sick fuck. People that know him said he was a control freak. His wife wasn't allowed to leave the home. Seems like his family was terrified of him. There were recent reports of him beating his mum and sister as well as his wife.
....he's identified in the news as "a champion boxer" so ergo it's bad for boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
:jawdrop: His mother and sister as well:confused: Like if what he did to his wife wasn't already serious enough. I didn't know neither he had two kids... a very very sad day and the guy was seriously disturbed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
It's sad all the way around and for me the boxing fan it's made a bit sadder because he was special in the ring. I wasn't so sure of that previously but after his last bout I was convinced. It has everything to do with boxing btw, he was a boxer and boxing provided an opportunity for him to live a good life had he chosen to. Plus, he was super talented and coming off his career best performance where he showed improvement and proved he was more then just the KO. That's what he should have been remembered for.
I'm not going to speculate on what caused his downfall, I don't know him. He definitely was a wild man though. I feel bad for his family and this is just a terrible page in the book of boxing tragedies. I'll try my best not to judge him for what he did, terrible as it may be. RIP.
Was there no male over 145lbs in that family to put the hobbit in his place?... anyway. whatever. It's kind of a moot point. Sad for the whole of the family... Both sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless:jawdrop: His mother and sister as well:confused: Like if what he did to his wife wasn't already serious enough. I didn't know neither he had two kids... a very very sad day and the guy was seriously disturbed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
He's just a boxer that committed murder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle....he's identified in the news as "a champion boxer" so ergo it's bad for boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Nobody outside the hardcore knew of him. Nobody with an ounce of a brain cell will relate a man stabbing his wife then killing himself with boxing.
The biggest tragedy is that in the space of two days, his children's world has fallen apart. They've lost both their parents. Valero obviously had major problems, what he did was disgusting, but to think he just did it for the sake of it is naive. Many are claiming that he had been mentally unwell for quite some time and nobody, not his manager or even Hugo Chavez were able to help him.
It's a tragedy that a beautiful young woman and mother has been lost, and whatever way you look at suicide, I think Valero decided on his own sentence. The parallels with Monzon are chilling. The one thing I would point out is that this kind of case happens all the time all over the world. The police were unable to arrest Valero because his wife said she fell down the stairs. This was no more preventable in Venezuela than it would have been in Venice Beach.
RIP to Jennifer Viera & all the other women who die in similar circumstances.
Actually the Cuban exile program was government ordered and he was supposed to have a police escort at all times in order to prevent him from harming his wife again. He "evaded" them on the night of the murder. All these were stipulations to him staying out of jail, which is what the prosecutor asked the judge for. So in all actuality this should have been prevented, people around him, even the judge, had known that this result was entirely possible.
Thing is, people make comments as if Valero was 100 percent sane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missybecause he didn't want to or couldn't figure out how to. People act like hamsters on a wheel.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlebifWhy should Valero rip he took his wifes life then killed himself, the b*****d.He had some demons yes so why did'nt he get help.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Why do people continue to smoke knowing it increases their chances of getting cancer?
The guy obviously had some mental issues that he needed help on. This reminds me of the Chris Benoit incident almost.
Valero to me and from what i've been reading seems like he had some very huge mental problems, possibly a chemical imbalance or something. the guy should have been put in a psych ward where he could have gotten help.
I call bullshit on people saying that he couldn't have gotten help or that his promoter couldn't find a way to help him, thats bullshit, the promoter HAD a way to help him, but the only way it could happen would be putting him in a psych ward which would have effectively ended his boxing career probably. I'm willing to bet the people around him business wise only used options of helping him that would have NOT ended his boxing career, and that is their fault for being selfish people, so what if it ends his boxing career? At least this stuff wouldn't have happened.
Not only that but he was a drinker and an alcohol abuser, and all that mixed together only is a recipe for disaster.
If he wasn't sane enough to get himself admitted into a mental facility then people around him who cared about him should have done it for his own good. Cause leaving a guy like that on the street without help is idiotic and can only lead to disaster when he fully spirals out of control.
Ive been through situations where I've had friends with disorders just discovering it, and I'd help admit them into the psych ward because that's where they needed to be. Cause it's downright scary watching someone completely wig out when something has mentally gone wrong.
The people around Valero, his promoters, his family, yes even his wife, should have admitted him somewhere.
And if his wife actually did drop the charges when he first beat her, then that was the worst possible thing she could have done for her, and for him.
Her dropping the charges against her husband, is what lead to her death, and his death.
I don't care how much you love someone, you don't drop those kinds of charges or what do you expect to happen?
The moment he put his hands on her and injured her, she should have got him arrested and not dropped the charges, he'd have gotten a psychiatric evaluation and I can guarantee you they would have found something wrong in his head, something mentally wrong, and he'd have been treated and medicated for it, he'd have spent time away in a psych ward for a few years maybe or even maybe for his life and needed supervised visits to see his children.
Maybe his boxing career would be over, but at least he'd be getting help, and his wife would be alive, and his children would be with both parents. There are times when boxing doesn't matter anymore. If his promoters or the people around him cared enough to END his boxing career by putting him in a psych ward then this kinda stuff wouldn't have happened, but they wanted to keep his boxing career going by doing the bare minimums, because i can guarantee you if they had tried everything to help this guy he wouldn't be a boxer anymore, he'd be getting help in a psych ward and his career would be over. But if they just went bare minimum to try to keep his boxing career alive then they are just as much to blame for this.
And I hate to say it but if it's true that his wife dropped charges against him because she loved him, which ultimately caused to nothing being done about it, then it was that selfish act out of love that caused this entire downward spiral to happen.
RIP Mr and Mrs Valero. I hope people learn from this. If someone has a problem, GET THEM HELP! If you don't only the worst can happen.
.. A part of the cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyThing is, people make comments as if Valero was 100 percent sane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missybecause he didn't want to or couldn't figure out how to. People act like hamsters on a wheel.Quote:
Originally Posted by littlebif
Why do people continue to smoke knowing it increases their chances of getting cancer?
The guy obviously had some mental issues that he needed help on. This reminds me of the Chris Benoit incident almost.
Valero to me and from what i've been reading seems like he had some very huge mental problems, possibly a chemical imbalance or something. the guy should have been put in a psych ward where he could have gotten help.
I call bullshit on people saying that he couldn't have gotten help or that his promoter couldn't find a way to help him, thats bullshit, the promoter HAD a way to help him, but the only way it could happen would be putting him in a psych ward which would have effectively ended his boxing career probably. I'm willing to bet the people around him business wise only used options of helping him that would have NOT ended his boxing career, and that is their fault for being selfish people, so what if it ends his boxing career? At least this stuff wouldn't have happened.
Not only that but he was a drinker and an alcohol abuser, and all that mixed together only is a recipe for disaster.
If he wasn't sane enough to get himself admitted into a mental facility then people around him who cared about him should have done it for his own good. Cause leaving a guy like that on the street without help is idiotic and can only lead to disaster when he fully spirals out of control.
Ive been through situations where I've had friends with disorders just discovering it, and I'd help admit them into the psych ward because that's where they needed to be. Cause it's downright scary watching someone completely wig out when something has mentally gone wrong.
The people around Valero, his promoters, his family, yes even his wife, should have admitted him somewhere.
And if his wife actually did drop the charges when he first beat her, then that was the worst possible thing she could have done for her, and for him.
Her dropping the charges against her husband, is what lead to her death, and his death.
I don't care how much you love someone, you don't drop those kinds of charges or what do you expect to happen?
The moment he put his hands on her and injured her, she should have got him arrested and not dropped the charges, he'd have gotten a psychiatric evaluation and I can guarantee you they would have found something wrong in his head, something mentally wrong, and he'd have been treated and medicated for it, he'd have spent time away in a psych ward for a few years maybe or even maybe for his life and needed supervised visits to see his children.
Maybe his boxing career would be over, but at least he'd be getting help, and his wife would be alive, and his children would be with both parents.
I hate to say it but if it's true that his wife dropped charges against him because she loved him, which ultimately caused to nothing being done about it, then it was that selfish act out of love that caused this entire downward spiral to happen.
RIP Mr and Mrs Valero. I hope people learn from this. If someone has a problem, GET THEM HELP! If you don't only the worst can happen.
When someone is mentally imbalanced you don't drop charges against them regardless on how much you love them if you love them then get them the help they need.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre.. A part of the cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by MajestyThing is, people make comments as if Valero was 100 percent sane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Howlin Mad Missy
The guy obviously had some mental issues that he needed help on. This reminds me of the Chris Benoit incident almost.
Valero to me and from what i've been reading seems like he had some very huge mental problems, possibly a chemical imbalance or something. the guy should have been put in a psych ward where he could have gotten help.
I call bullshit on people saying that he couldn't have gotten help or that his promoter couldn't find a way to help him, thats bullshit, the promoter HAD a way to help him, but the only way it could happen would be putting him in a psych ward which would have effectively ended his boxing career probably. I'm willing to bet the people around him business wise only used options of helping him that would have NOT ended his boxing career, and that is their fault for being selfish people, so what if it ends his boxing career? At least this stuff wouldn't have happened.
Not only that but he was a drinker and an alcohol abuser, and all that mixed together only is a recipe for disaster.
If he wasn't sane enough to get himself admitted into a mental facility then people around him who cared about him should have done it for his own good. Cause leaving a guy like that on the street without help is idiotic and can only lead to disaster when he fully spirals out of control.
Ive been through situations where I've had friends with disorders just discovering it, and I'd help admit them into the psych ward because that's where they needed to be. Cause it's downright scary watching someone completely wig out when something has mentally gone wrong.
The people around Valero, his promoters, his family, yes even his wife, should have admitted him somewhere.
And if his wife actually did drop the charges when he first beat her, then that was the worst possible thing she could have done for her, and for him.
Her dropping the charges against her husband, is what lead to her death, and his death.
I don't care how much you love someone, you don't drop those kinds of charges or what do you expect to happen?
The moment he put his hands on her and injured her, she should have got him arrested and not dropped the charges, he'd have gotten a psychiatric evaluation and I can guarantee you they would have found something wrong in his head, something mentally wrong, and he'd have been treated and medicated for it, he'd have spent time away in a psych ward for a few years maybe or even maybe for his life and needed supervised visits to see his children.
Maybe his boxing career would be over, but at least he'd be getting help, and his wife would be alive, and his children would be with both parents.
I hate to say it but if it's true that his wife dropped charges against him because she loved him, which ultimately caused to nothing being done about it, then it was that selfish act out of love that caused this entire downward spiral to happen.
RIP Mr and Mrs Valero. I hope people learn from this. If someone has a problem, GET THEM HELP! If you don't only the worst can happen.
if someone is mentally imbalanced and you don't get them help because you love them and it could ruin them, then it's going to always happen until a tragedy. What people must understand is if someone has a mental condition they aren't in their state of mind, they aren't gonna think that you didnt report them and love isn't gonna be a factor, it's just gonna get worse and worse and worse, this is a prime example of what can happen if you let things stand because you don't want to end a boxing career. Life is more important then boxing.
Agreed but she isnt wholly to blame here there are many other variants.
We all know even if she did charge him he would get out soon enough and maybe even hunt her down for it.
He allowed this crap to fester in himself.
Women are easier victims than us too, they're usually romantically foolish ,easily scared, or have a great faith that all things work out in love.
I agree if all women were like blokes then girl beaters would be either charged or woken at 3 am one morning with their both knee caps removed.
I agree she isnt wholly responsible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
But like ive been reading these promoters and etc say he's had these problems for a while and I wonder why they never put him in a psych ward. And what I think it came down to is if they had put him in a psych ward or gotten him mental help it would have ended his boxing career, they didn't want to take that route and it ultimately cost everything. That was the biggest mistake they could have made.
Valero Denied The Murder, Relatives Reveal Dark Secrets - Boxing News
Really just a sick sounding dude, beating his mother I mean for fuck's sake who beats their mother? Not to imply that beating your wife is somehow more all right, its just more common. Doug Fischer, the guy at the Ring Magazine Online who was THE Valero hype guy in the media for years, five years or so since he was just building a name sparring in California, talked about how he was told by Valero's trainer how Valero wouldn't let his wife leave the apartment they had in California, just a complete control freak.
And Andre Berto :cwm13:
The Lead Graf Blog Archive Boxer Andre Berto Puts Foot In Mouth, Seems To Blame Edwin Valero’s Wife For Murder/Suicide -