Urgh these multi-quotes are horrible!!
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Anyway, this is a great debate! It's like watching Tennis!! ;D
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Urgh these multi-quotes are horrible!!
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Anyway, this is a great debate! It's like watching Tennis!! ;D
I haven't read the whole thread and I think it's clear that Marquez will leave a better legacy than Hamed, however to think Hamed would duck Marquez back in 1999/2000 doesn't make sense. At that time Marquez had fought one notable oppoonent and lost that fight. It wasn't until around 2004 that he actually started fighting marquee fights and became a p4p fighter.
1999 Hamed would probably have smoked Marquez boots the way Pac should have in round 1 of their first fight
Agreed !Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Naz fought the top guy's in his weight division at that time, took belts off them and reigned supreme. Marquez clearly ducked him ;)
Except that it's a mismatch. I'm Federer he's Sharapova.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
I now understand the problem. You don't know the meaning of the word elite. That's become obvious. You think just cuz a fighter held a title than he was elite. So I'm thinking you must of considered Gavin Rees an elite fighter when he was holding his strap, right? It don't work that way. My opinion is my opinion. But assuming people know the true meaning of the word elite it's pretty much universally known that Paul Ingle, Steve Robinson, Cesar Soto and to a point Manuel Medina were never elite fighters even in there primes. That's a fact. The others were elite at one point in there careers. But they were all pretty much shot fighters when Hamed fought them. Tell me what other championship did Tom Johnson win after Hamed? Kevin Kelley. What title he pick up. None to both. As well as to Wilfredo Vazquez and Vuyani Bungu. So what were these other championships these guys won after Hamed that you lied about? There isn't any. None of them did nothing that meant anything after Hamed. Cuz they were all shot fighters when they fought Hamed. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
You don't think I see through you? Your using word Featherweight as a security blanket. Not no more. I'm tearing it up. Junior Jones, Kennedy Mckinney, Erik Morales, Juan Manuel Marquez, Floyd Mayweather, Angel Manfredy were elite fighters (Manfredy being the exception) that expressed interest in facing Hamed. Fact. How many of those did he fight? None. Fact. He ducked one after the other. Another fact. They all didn't all share the same weight class as him. But neither did Bungu. And they still fought. But not against the others. Hamed's ducking skills truly were elite.
If he's talking appearance wise than I must certainly am Sharapova. But your no Federer. Your Venus Williams.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterExcept that it's a mismatch. I'm Federer he's Sharapova.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
I think that Hamed had nothing but one weakness: his mind. Once MAB did beat him, his aura shattered, just like his self confidence and he was never the same afterward, even if he hasn't been mashed to pieces. Would he have continued and get a few meaningful victories it would have been something interesting to compare but now that Hamed gave up when he shouldn't, it's clear that Marquez and MAB got better legacy in the meantime.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Hamed had several weaknesses that were erased or ignored cuz of his debilitating power. Which was very real and his greatest strength. Actually it was his only strength. And he knew it. It's why his opposition was hand picked. He could get away with the tools he had against decent, good opponents. But not against the elite (see Barrera). Hamed knew that there will be talk about him avoiding the best. But as long as he was spectacularly knocking out the opposition he was facing he would have his backers (his 3 punches thrown knock out of Said Lawal remains on of my all time favorites). Sadly for Hamed, Barrera put an end to his little charadeQuote:
Originally Posted by NamelessI think that Hamed had nothing but one weakness: his mind. Once MAB did beat him, his aura shattered, just like his self confidence and he was never the same afterward, even if he hasn't been mashed to pieces. Would he have continued and get a few meaningful victories it would have been something interesting to compare but now that Hamed gave up when he shouldn't, it's clear that Marquez and MAB got better legacy in the meantime.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
Maybe I was too young and uninterested in the boxing politics back then, just enjoyed the fighting, but I'd always thought of Naz as the ducking fighter.
Back in the day I loved watching him, his style was a fans favourite. But as time wore on I appreciated him less and less. It wasn't until the last Naz thread on here that I actually even considered him among the elite. I always thought he fought half decent opponents, knocked them out, then faced a good opponent and got beat.
Back then though, I didn't even know who he was fighting, I just liked watching it.
Yet again an utterly shocking lack of knowledge :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI now understand the problem. You don't know the meaning of the word elite. That's become obvious. You think just cuz a fighter held a title than he was elite. So I'm thinking you must of considered Gavin Rees an elite fighter when he was holding his strap, right? It don't work that way. My opinion is my opinion. But assuming people know the true meaning of the word elite it's pretty much universally known that Paul Ingle, Steve Robinson, Cesar Soto and to a point Manuel Medina were never elite fighters even in there primes. That's a fact. The others were elite at one point in there careers. But they were all pretty much shot fighters when Hamed fought them. Tell me what other championship did Tom Johnson win after Hamed? Kevin Kelley. What title he pick up. None to both. As well as to Wilfredo Vazquez and Vuyani Bungu. So what were these other championships these guys won after Hamed that you lied about? There isn't any. None of them did nothing that meant anything after Hamed. Cuz they were all shot fighters when they fought Hamed. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
You don't think I see through you? Your using word Featherweight as a security blanket. Not no more. I'm tearing it up. Junior Jones, Kennedy Mckinney, Erik Morales, Juan Manuel Marquez, Floyd Mayweather, Angel Manfredy were elite fighters (Manfredy being the exception) that expressed interest in facing Hamed. Fact. How many of those did he fight? None. Fact. He ducked one after the other. Another fact. They all didn't all share the same weight class as him. But neither did Bungu. And they still fought. But not against the others. Hamed's ducking skills truly were elite.
1. Junior Jones and Kennedy Mckinney were elite fighters? They lost to Naz victims (Jones to Ingle and McKinney to Bungu). What makes them any better than the other champions Naz smashed? It is also a FACT that Jones ducked out of the March 11 2000 date that Bungu took (BBC News | SPORT | Hamed fight called off). We've already established Marquez ducked Naz. Morales lost out to Barrera. Mayweather, Manfredy, Gatti - just about every fighter in the late 90s was linked with Naz because of the MONEY!!! All were operating at bigger weights. There's no evidence that Naz ducked anyone. You are tearing up nothing. Fact.
2. I said SOME went on to win titles (Medina and Ingle). Kelley was deemed good enough to fight both Morales and Barrera after Naz sparked him. I never lie. Fact.
3. You're the one that has the problem understaning the word elite. Did I call anyone anything other than elite in their weight-class? That's a no. Fact.
So you're admitting you're a tart? Just as I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIf he's talking appearance wise than I must certainly am Sharapova. But your no Federer. Your Venus Williams.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterExcept that it's a mismatch. I'm Federer he's Sharapova.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
And you are admitting to having no personality and a predictable bore. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterSo you're admitting you're a tart? Just as I thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseIf he's talking appearance wise than I must certainly am Sharapova. But your no Federer. Your Venus Williams.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterExcept that it's a mismatch. I'm Federer he's Sharapova.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
Is it to late to retract the comment about Tennis :rolleyes: ;D
Please deem it null and void, thank you.
Don't worry it wont detract from the "serious" debate. It's a comic interlude.Quote:
Originally Posted by J da Bomba
Junior Jones was past his prime when he fought Paul Ingle though Fenster, his legs were gone and he only just about got past Richard Evatt beforehand. Junior Jones in his prime the one that defeated MAB x2, Orlando Canizalez, John Michael Johnson, Jorge Eliecer Julio. Around that time he was special fighter, its only his chin that let him down and inconsistency.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterYet again an utterly shocking lack of knowledge :vd:Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent DemiseI now understand the problem. You don't know the meaning of the word elite. That's become obvious. You think just cuz a fighter held a title than he was elite. So I'm thinking you must of considered Gavin Rees an elite fighter when he was holding his strap, right? It don't work that way. My opinion is my opinion. But assuming people know the true meaning of the word elite it's pretty much universally known that Paul Ingle, Steve Robinson, Cesar Soto and to a point Manuel Medina were never elite fighters even in there primes. That's a fact. The others were elite at one point in there careers. But they were all pretty much shot fighters when Hamed fought them. Tell me what other championship did Tom Johnson win after Hamed? Kevin Kelley. What title he pick up. None to both. As well as to Wilfredo Vazquez and Vuyani Bungu. So what were these other championships these guys won after Hamed that you lied about? There isn't any. None of them did nothing that meant anything after Hamed. Cuz they were all shot fighters when they fought Hamed. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
You don't think I see through you? Your using word Featherweight as a security blanket. Not no more. I'm tearing it up. Junior Jones, Kennedy Mckinney, Erik Morales, Juan Manuel Marquez, Floyd Mayweather, Angel Manfredy were elite fighters (Manfredy being the exception) that expressed interest in facing Hamed. Fact. How many of those did he fight? None. Fact. He ducked one after the other. Another fact. They all didn't all share the same weight class as him. But neither did Bungu. And they still fought. But not against the others. Hamed's ducking skills truly were elite.
1. Junior Jones and Kennedy Mckinney were elite fighters? They lost to Naz victims (Jones to Ingle and McKinney to Bungu). What makes them any better than the other champions Naz smashed? It is also a FACT that Jones ducked out of the March 11 2000 date that Bungu took (BBC News | SPORT | Hamed fight called off). We've already established Marquez ducked Naz. Morales lost out to Barrera. Mayweather, Manfredy, Gatti - just about every fighter in the late 90s was linked with Naz because of the MONEY!!! All were operating at bigger weights. There's no evidence that Naz ducked anyone. You are tearing up nothing. Fact.
2. I said SOME went on to win titles (Medina and Ingle). Kelley was deemed good enough to fight both Morales and Barrera after Naz sparked him. I never lie. Fact.
3. You're the one that has the problem understaning the word elite. Did I call anyone anything other than elite in their weight-class? That's a no. Fact.
As for Kennedy McKinney he was just as talented as Junior Jones, he seemed to go down hill pretty quickly i heard it was from drugs. Which is a shame considering how great he looked against Welcome Ncita, MAB, Paul Banke.
I tell you there is one Featherweight Naseem Hamed didn't fight, who i would of loved to have seen him fight and thats Luisito Espinosa. Also a fight with Alejandro Gonzalez would of been entertaining aswell.