Even IF Haye manages to beat Wlad (he has a fair chance but I don't think he will), Vitali will be the one who turns his face 'into a pizza'. I doubt Haye would want to fight him anyway, he'll claim he is 'too old' or some bullshit like that and then retire. I'd give Haye NO chance against Vitali. He'd have his face jabbed to pieces and I'd take great delight in that knowing he'd be retiring on a loss.
You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyu
The ONLY reasons anyone thinks this will be close is because #1 They are British and lack the ability to reason #2 They don't like the Klitschko's and are just HOPING they lose and #3 The WBA title holder has talked so much shit for so long they just can't believe that he is WELL out of his depth here.
It's not going to be close, it's not going to be pretty (unless you're a Klitschko fan), and rjjtszyu you had better pray I take our sig bet easy on you ;)
It's a pretty sad day for the HW division when a fight between 2 average HWs is considered to be arguably the biggest fight in the sport today.
Haye and Wlad would have gotten their ass whipped by most of the top 10 HWs in the 90s. Hell both of them would have to be extremely lucky to pick up an ABC paper title in that decade.
My oh my how the most glamourous division has come to this.
I've just been watching Foreman vs Ali at work (that's how I roll) and just asked a colleague (who also posts on here but will remain nameless) how would David Haye do against Muhammed Ali?
;D
I don't know about the current WBA title holder but Wladimir certainly could have picked up a title in the 1990's. I think a Prime Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield are the only fighters he would have stumbled/struggled against.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Michael Moorer, Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson, Ray Mercer, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Tommy Morrison, Shannon Briggs, Donovan Ruddock....I don't see Wlad having trouble with those guys
Its definitely NOT the biggest fight in the sport. Even at Heavyweight I think Povetkin demolishes Haye. Other young pressure fighters who can punch will give him big troubles too.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
I don't know about Haye, but Wladimir Klitschko (55-3) is a GREAT heavyweight champion. What the Klitschko brothers have done is just incredible (and i always root for the other guy they fight, but facts are facts). When they retire they'll definitely be remembered in the same sentence with Loius, Ali, Holmes, Lewis etc. If they were Americans or British a lot of guys in this forum would call them The Greatest of All Time.
Are you mad??Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI don't know about the current WBA title holder but Wladimir certainly could have picked up a title in the 1990's. I think a Prime Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield are the only fighters he would have stumbled/struggled against.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Michael Moorer, Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson, Ray Mercer, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Tommy Morrison, Shannon Briggs, Donovan Ruddock....I don't see Wlad having trouble with those guys
Can you point me in the direction of your dealer, as them mind-altering substances are really having an effect! Klitschko brothers have the same problem that Calzaghe had at SMW, in as much as the competition in the division has been tepid for quite some time. You can never say for certain how today's Wlad would have handled the division 10-15 years ago, because there is such a disparity between then and now, and the vulnerabilities exposed so far in his career show him to be susceptible to the big shot. The only fighter over the past ten years that could have competed with himin recent times never happened as he's his brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
OK let's go through them shall we?Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuAre you mad??Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI don't know about the current WBA title holder but Wladimir certainly could have picked up a title in the 1990's. I think a Prime Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield are the only fighters he would have stumbled/struggled against.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Michael Moorer, Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson, Ray Mercer, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Tommy Morrison, Shannon Briggs, Donovan Ruddock....I don't see Wlad having trouble with those guys
Michael Moorer: PROS: Southpaw, fast hands, solid power CONS: No heart, no chin, fought AGAINST his trainer's advise when it wasn't in his best interest.
Riddick Bowe: PROS: Big, decent chin, big heart, physically gifted in height and reach CONS: NEVER fought a power puncher, routinely ballooned up in weight between fights and wasn't always in the best shape, and other than Holyfield & Golota he fought NO ONE.
Mike Tyson: PROS: Big power, fast hands, rock solid chin CONS: the post prison Mike Tyson relied on 1 punch KO power and seldom used head movement, combinations, hell he seldom trained at that point in his career he had trouble beating Frans Botha.
Ray Mercer: PROS: Solid chin, big power, good stamina CONS: even in his prime he got outboxed by Holmes...Wlad beat him later in his career but Wlad has since progressed and is an even better boxer now.
George Foreman:PROS: HUGE power, great chin, mentally tough CONS: Slow a foot, slow hands, and not mobile at all...it took a fighter willingly fighting his fight for him to win the belt again. Say what you will about Wlad but he ALWAYS fights HIS fight and not someone else's
Larry Holmes:PROS: Solid boxer, great jab, decent defense, cerebral fighter CONS: Well out of his prime, slower and even during his prime he was apt to defensive lapses...it wouldn't help vs Wlad.
Tommy Morrison: PROS: 1 punch KO power in either hand, big heart CONS: Dodgy chin, lacked stamina, not difficult to hit
Shannon Briggs:PROS: Big, athletic, strong, good power, fast hands CONS: Dodgy chin, questionable stamina and heart, and prone to "asthma attacks"
Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock:PROS: Big power, used angles well, good reach CONS: Easy to hit, not the toughest mental fighter, stamina issues due to not taking care of himself and dodgy chin
...there I finished the list since I had nothing better to do. Anyone else you can think of? Golota? Tua? McCall? Rahman?
I have to agree with Lyle. Regardless of the pro's and cons... Wlad is no fraud. He is an elite pugilist with fuck off power. This is the 90' were taking about... The only two Really good fighters were Lennox and Evander. On the whole, the rest were sub standard one way or another.
People tend to really make a big deal out of Riddick Bowe, but take a close look at his record...there are 0 power punchers on there and it's not as if the division was hurting for them at the time...surely thee was a reason Bowe never fought one of his fellow Brooklynites in Tyson or Briggs and there's no excuse about dodging Lennox Lewis...I heard tell of Morrison whipping his ass in sparring before, and perhaps I am in the minority here but I think the reason the Bowe-Holyfield trilogy was great wasn't because Bowe was as great as Holyfield, but because of the style matchup. And looking at that one MAY start to ponder about Wlad's chances vs Holyfield because guys who boxed and used distance vs Evander (Holmes, Mercer)had success fending off his relentless attacks, but the big reason the Bowe fights were so epic were because not only did Bowe use his reach, he also took naps and tried to rest on the inside allowing Evander to work therefore creating the see-saw battles we as fight fans loved to see. Also something to remember about Holyfield is that he had heart trouble AND hepitatus and it sapped his strength and endurance vs the likes of Bowe and Moorer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Wlad is a damn good boxer whether you want to admit it or not. He legacy isn't set in stone yet as it's still being written, but IMO he's as dominant as any other heavyweight I can remember.
I have to agree with Lyle and Jimbo on this one too. I think Wlad would be more than capable of beating the 90's heavyweights listed, he's very good defensively, has an excellent jab and probably the most powerful right cross around and I don't think it's much of a stretch to say he'd be able to beat many of them. Like him or not he's an exceptionally good boxer, and although his chin is suspect, it's damn hard to find it. If you want to reach his chin the chances are you're going to have to take some serious punishment in order to do so, and the majority of fighters are unlikely to be able to take that. That's the reason why, although David Haye clearly has very good power I'd be surprised to see him win against Wlad, because I don't see him being able to stand up to Wlad's shots while he tries to land that big shot.
Definately tommorrow, I swear.
:smilie_pinoc::liar:
Well I haven't time right now to argue the full post but for now I'll just say I disagree with your opinion on Briggs' chin. I always thought he had a very decent chin. Not many could take he shots he took off Lennox that night and I honestly think that version of Briggs would beat Wlad. And the other point (for now)is you say Bowe ONLY fought Evander and Golota. Well Evander is an ATG who Bowe fought and beat in his prime. It may not have been Evanders best performance but in age and skill he was in his prime. Wlad has never been in with an ATG in their prime or past it for that matter (that is not his fault) so I don't know how you can knock Bowes competition!!Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongOK let's go through them shall we?Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuAre you mad??Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI don't know about the current WBA title holder but Wladimir certainly could have picked up a title in the 1990's. I think a Prime Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield are the only fighters he would have stumbled/struggled against.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Michael Moorer, Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson, Ray Mercer, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Tommy Morrison, Shannon Briggs, Donovan Ruddock....I don't see Wlad having trouble with those guys
Michael Moorer: PROS: Southpaw, fast hands, solid power CONS: No heart, no chin, fought AGAINST his trainer's advise when it wasn't in his best interest.
Riddick Bowe: PROS: Big, decent chin, big heart, physically gifted in height and reach CONS: NEVER fought a power puncher, routinely ballooned up in weight between fights and wasn't always in the best shape, and other than Holyfield & Golota he fought NO ONE.
Mike Tyson: PROS: Big power, fast hands, rock solid chin CONS: the post prison Mike Tyson relied on 1 punch KO power and seldom used head movement, combinations, hell he seldom trained at that point in his career he had trouble beating Frans Botha.
Ray Mercer: PROS: Solid chin, big power, good stamina CONS: even in his prime he got outboxed by Holmes...Wlad beat him later in his career but Wlad has since progressed and is an even better boxer now.
George Foreman:PROS: HUGE power, great chin, mentally tough CONS: Slow a foot, slow hands, and not mobile at all...it took a fighter willingly fighting his fight for him to win the belt again. Say what you will about Wlad but he ALWAYS fights HIS fight and not someone else's
Larry Holmes:PROS: Solid boxer, great jab, decent defense, cerebral fighter CONS: Well out of his prime, slower and even during his prime he was apt to defensive lapses...it wouldn't help vs Wlad.
Tommy Morrison: PROS: 1 punch KO power in either hand, big heart CONS: Dodgy chin, lacked stamina, not difficult to hit
Shannon Briggs:PROS: Big, athletic, strong, good power, fast hands CONS: Dodgy chin, questionable stamina and heart, and prone to "asthma attacks"
Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock:PROS: Big power, used angles well, good reach CONS: Easy to hit, not the toughest mental fighter, stamina issues due to not taking care of himself and dodgy chin
...there I finished the list since I had nothing better to do. Anyone else you can think of? Golota? Tua? McCall? Rahman?
Exactly. Bowe beat an undefeated and prime Holyfield. Wlad has yet to face any HW today that is even half as good as that version of Holyfield. Fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuWell I haven't time right now to argue the full post but for now I'll just say I disagree with your opinion on Briggs' chin. I always thought he had a very decent chin. Not many could take he shots he took off Lennox that night and I honestly think that version of Briggs would beat Wlad. And the other point (for now)is you say Bowe ONLY fought Evander and Golota. Well Evander is an ATG who Bowe fought and beat in his prime. It may not have been Evanders best performance but in age and skill he was in his prime. Wlad has never been in with an ATG in their prime or past it for that matter (that is not his fault) so I don't know how you can knock Bowes competition!!Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongOK let's go through them shall we?Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj tszyuAre you mad??Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongI don't know about the current WBA title holder but Wladimir certainly could have picked up a title in the 1990's. I think a Prime Lennox Lewis and Evander Holyfield are the only fighters he would have stumbled/struggled against.Quote:
Originally Posted by generalbulldog
Michael Moorer, Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson, Ray Mercer, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Tommy Morrison, Shannon Briggs, Donovan Ruddock....I don't see Wlad having trouble with those guys
Michael Moorer: PROS: Southpaw, fast hands, solid power CONS: No heart, no chin, fought AGAINST his trainer's advise when it wasn't in his best interest.
Riddick Bowe: PROS: Big, decent chin, big heart, physically gifted in height and reach CONS: NEVER fought a power puncher, routinely ballooned up in weight between fights and wasn't always in the best shape, and other than Holyfield & Golota he fought NO ONE.
Mike Tyson: PROS: Big power, fast hands, rock solid chin CONS: the post prison Mike Tyson relied on 1 punch KO power and seldom used head movement, combinations, hell he seldom trained at that point in his career he had trouble beating Frans Botha.
Ray Mercer: PROS: Solid chin, big power, good stamina CONS: even in his prime he got outboxed by Holmes...Wlad beat him later in his career but Wlad has since progressed and is an even better boxer now.
George Foreman:PROS: HUGE power, great chin, mentally tough CONS: Slow a foot, slow hands, and not mobile at all...it took a fighter willingly fighting his fight for him to win the belt again. Say what you will about Wlad but he ALWAYS fights HIS fight and not someone else's
Larry Holmes:PROS: Solid boxer, great jab, decent defense, cerebral fighter CONS: Well out of his prime, slower and even during his prime he was apt to defensive lapses...it wouldn't help vs Wlad.
Tommy Morrison: PROS: 1 punch KO power in either hand, big heart CONS: Dodgy chin, lacked stamina, not difficult to hit
Shannon Briggs:PROS: Big, athletic, strong, good power, fast hands CONS: Dodgy chin, questionable stamina and heart, and prone to "asthma attacks"
Donovan 'Razor' Ruddock:PROS: Big power, used angles well, good reach CONS: Easy to hit, not the toughest mental fighter, stamina issues due to not taking care of himself and dodgy chin
...there I finished the list since I had nothing better to do. Anyone else you can think of? Golota? Tua? McCall? Rahman?