Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

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06-01-2011, 02:14 AM
THE THIRD MAN

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Timberrrrrrrrrr Tyson by KO in 2, Lewis was as slow as a 3 toed sloth in the ring, Tyson would've been in and under and Lewis knocked out inside 2 rounds. The 86-88 Tyson was an awesome force, there were those that survived the onslaught, but they never had any intention of winning. Lewis would simply just get hit and get hit bigtime.
06-01-2011, 02:58 AM
Andre

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Quote:

Originally Posted by NuthaPug

I don't think Lewis really had a questionable chin. The fact that he got knocked out doesn't demonstrate a weak chin. Let Rahman hit anyone that hard and it doesn't take a weak chin to achieve a KO.

Lewis didn't always have the "fire in the belly" when he stepped into the ring. So he loses even when at his prime (I would consider him in his prime both when he lost to Rahman and later when he beat him) because he didn't prepare for the fight. He looked soft, doughy, lazy.

I've always thought that a prime Tyson might take out Lewis if he did it early; a prime Lewis who came sharp and prepared, and weathered the first three or four rounds, should be able to outbox and win either on decision or KO.

Tyson was probably not in best form against Douglas, but regardless, Douglas provides a template for a tall, strong heavyweight to outbox Tyson.

Im with you, also Douglas did beat Tyson fair and square full points to him massive effort and he did template how to do so in the later rounds.

Douglas was also very lucky that night if his own knock down had happened at any time other than right at the end of the round as it did ,Tyson would have finished him on rising up to face him. As it happened Douglas had the balls and heart to think; wow I've taken his best shots, Im still here, right its my turn and he went at him with no trepidation, not something Tyson was ever used to facing.

Could Lewis have dug that deep if clocked maybe the real question?
06-01-2011, 04:18 AM
Spicoli

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Quote:

Originally Posted by miles

Tyson had been in jail for 3 plus years when he faced Holyfield, he had been out of boxing for various reasons for 5 plus against Lewis. Those wins don't mean all that much as Tyson was done. Tyson had years of skills erosion, whilst those other two were refining their craft. They never met at equal junctures in their careers. Tyson beats both of them prime on prime.

:cwm13: Revisionanist history much ;D Hindsight is a wonderful thing but ya just can't have it both ways. After a "shot" Holyfield who was being called a walking dead man going in, then yes, Tysons skills had hastily eroded.

I'd have loved a prime for prime Holyfield vs Tyson...if only Mike had not backed out years earlier.
06-01-2011, 07:14 AM
generalbulldog

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Quote:

Originally Posted by miles

Tyson had been in jail for 3 plus years when he faced Holyfield, he had been out of boxing for various reasons for 5 plus against Lewis. Those wins don't mean all that much as Tyson was done. Tyson had years of skills erosion, whilst those other two were refining their craft. They never met at equal junctures in their careers. Tyson beats both of them prime on prime.

:cwm13: Revisionanist history much ;D Hindsight is a wonderful thing but ya just can't have it both ways. After a "shot" Holyfield who was being called a walking dead man going in, then yes, Tysons skills had hastily eroded.

I'd have loved a prime for prime Holyfield vs Tyson...if only Mike had not backed out years earlier.

Yeah, many people were worried for Holyfield's life because he didn't look that good in the Bobby Cyz fight. Holyfield was considered to be a shot fighter with stamina and heart problems going into that 1st Tyson fight. Also Tyson was quickly regaining his aura of invincibility after knocking out 2 hw title holders in Bruno and Seldon in spectacular fashion and had 2 of the 3 hw titles.

Here's a fun fact. Jose Torres and Floyd Patterson gave the opinion that Mike Tyson would always lose to a Evander Holyfield no matter when they would have fought because Holyfield had the right style and tools to beat Tyson. 2 Cus Damato fighters said that.
06-01-2011, 11:25 AM
ross

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Quote:

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Quote:

Originally Posted by miles

Tyson had been in jail for 3 plus years when he faced Holyfield, he had been out of boxing for various reasons for 5 plus against Lewis. Those wins don't mean all that much as Tyson was done. Tyson had years of skills erosion, whilst those other two were refining their craft. They never met at equal junctures in their careers. Tyson beats both of them prime on prime.

:cwm13: Revisionanist history much ;D Hindsight is a wonderful thing but ya just can't have it both ways. After a "shot" Holyfield who was being called a walking dead man going in, then yes, Tysons skills had hastily eroded.

I'd have loved a prime for prime Holyfield vs Tyson...if only Mike had not backed out years earlier.

Yeah, many people were worried for Holyfield's life because he didn't look that good in the Bobby Cyz fight. Holyfield was considered to be a shot fighter with stamina and heart problems going into that 1st Tyson fight. Also Tyson was quickly regaining his aura of invincibility after knocking out 2 hw title holders in Bruno and Seldon in spectacular fashion and had 2 of the 3 hw titles.

Here's a fun fact. Jose Torres and Floyd Patterson gave the opinion that Mike Tyson would always lose to a Evander Holyfield no matter when they would have fought because Holyfield had the right style and tools to beat Tyson. 2 Cus Damato fighters said that.

The fight was proposed years after Mikes skills were declining but even then, much lesser fighters were dropping Holyfield, like Bert Cooper. Mike had very fast hands, even after he stopped moving his head and if you could be hit like Holyfield, then you were in trouble.

In the first fight after a 4 year lay off, there are really only a couple of points in that fight where Mike throws combinations. In the 5th and in the 9th, I think. He lands a couple of nice combinations and Holyfield looks as much confused as he does hurt. The version from 88 would have done that the entire fight, for as long as it lasted and he certainly wouldnt have been there to be hit back.

Holufields heart problem was to to his steroid use;)

Since the Evan Fields thing cropped up, where drugs were being sent to his address and he answered the number that had been given, he hasgiven the shit excuse that the growth hormone was for his dad!!!!;D

What a twat!
06-01-2011, 12:24 PM
Mark TKO

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

55-45 overall in Lewis' favour I feel.

But once the first three rounds over with and Lewis was still around then that increases to 80-20 at least.

Tyson wasn't used to being in a tough fight back then. Lewis would have given him it
06-01-2011, 12:42 PM
ross

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark TKO

55-45 overall in Lewis' favour I feel.

But once the first three rounds over with and Lewis was still around then that increases to 80-20 at least.

Tyson wasn't used to being in a tough fight back then. Lewis would have given him it

This is something else that gets me, look at the fights Mike had that went 12 rounds back then. He didnt tire or get gift decisions. He made fighters fight scared.
06-01-2011, 12:50 PM
Mark TKO

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

no he didn't but Lewis wouldn't have got scared.

I only remember the Tucker and Smith fights that went distance from back then. Both pretty comfortable if I remember correctly. Then there was that Green bloke who he also punched in a nightclub or something a couple of years before. Not sure how that one went but I'm guessing it was again pretty comfortable.

I just think Lewis could have done what Douglas did a couple of years earlier thats all.

But a Tyson KO inside of 30 seconds wouldnt surprise me in the slightest.
06-01-2011, 01:33 PM
Memphis

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark TKO

I just think Lewis could have done what Douglas did a couple of years earlier thats all.

But a Tyson KO inside of 30 seconds wouldnt surprise me in the slightest.

Me too, although Lewis would have controlled him rather than battered him like a man possesed.
06-01-2011, 01:36 PM
ross

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark TKO

I just think Lewis could have done what Douglas did a couple of years earlier thats all.

But a Tyson KO inside of 30 seconds wouldnt surprise me in the slightest.

Me too, although Lewis would have controlled him rather than battered him like a man possesed.

Lewis couldnt "control" Mercer, who hadno where near the speed or skill of Tyson. He was also alot easier to hit. This is the same Mercer that Holmes beat;D
06-01-2011, 01:46 PM
Memphis

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Quote:

Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark TKO

I just think Lewis could have done what Douglas did a couple of years earlier thats all.

But a Tyson KO inside of 30 seconds wouldnt surprise me in the slightest.

Me too, although Lewis would have controlled him rather than battered him like a man possesed.

Lewis couldnt "control" Mercer, who hadno where near the speed or skill of Tyson. He was also alot easier to hit. This is the same Mercer that Holmes beat;D

Your right, I've changed my mind due to the fact that you keep repeating the same fucking thing over and over again.
06-01-2011, 03:34 PM
Jimanuel Boogustus

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis

Quote:

Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memphis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark TKO

I just think Lewis could have done what Douglas did a couple of years earlier thats all.

But a Tyson KO inside of 30 seconds wouldnt surprise me in the slightest.

Me too, although Lewis would have controlled him rather than battered him like a man possesed.

Lewis couldnt "control" Mercer, who hadno where near the speed or skill of Tyson. He was also alot easier to hit. This is the same Mercer that Holmes beat;D

Your right, I've changed my mind due to the fact that you keep repeating the same fucking thing over and over again.

Inception; it works! :cool:

I agree with GeneralBulldog about Holyfield. Having thought about it, I think he beats Tyson 7/10 at any point of their respective careers.

But in regards to Lewis, I have to call it 50/50.

Then again I already make an exception for Tyson. It's kinda hard to explain but obviously Lewis was more consistent where as Tyson was a short fuse so true odds are Lewis is more likely the winner but if were talking prime4prime, although Tyson's physical peak barely lasted a summer, that was still his prime and so at that point I'm more inclined to say 50/50 if not 60/40 Tyson.

I'm not making any sense, I literately have no idea?! :-\
06-01-2011, 07:40 PM
generalbulldog

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Quote:

Originally Posted by ross

Quote:

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Quote:

Originally Posted by miles

Tyson had been in jail for 3 plus years when he faced Holyfield, he had been out of boxing for various reasons for 5 plus against Lewis. Those wins don't mean all that much as Tyson was done. Tyson had years of skills erosion, whilst those other two were refining their craft. They never met at equal junctures in their careers. Tyson beats both of them prime on prime.

:cwm13: Revisionanist history much ;D Hindsight is a wonderful thing but ya just can't have it both ways. After a "shot" Holyfield who was being called a walking dead man going in, then yes, Tysons skills had hastily eroded.

I'd have loved a prime for prime Holyfield vs Tyson...if only Mike had not backed out years earlier.

Yeah, many people were worried for Holyfield's life because he didn't look that good in the Bobby Cyz fight. Holyfield was considered to be a shot fighter with stamina and heart problems going into that 1st Tyson fight. Also Tyson was quickly regaining his aura of invincibility after knocking out 2 hw title holders in Bruno and Seldon in spectacular fashion and had 2 of the 3 hw titles.

Here's a fun fact. Jose Torres and Floyd Patterson gave the opinion that Mike Tyson would always lose to a Evander Holyfield no matter when they would have fought because Holyfield had the right style and tools to beat Tyson. 2 Cus Damato fighters said that.

The fight was proposed years after Mikes skills were declining but even then, much lesser fighters were dropping Holyfield, like Bert Cooper. Mike had very fast hands, even after he stopped moving his head and if you could be hit like Holyfield, then you were in trouble.

In the first fight after a 4 year lay off, there are really only a couple of points in that fight where Mike throws combinations. In the 5th and in the 9th, I think. He lands a couple of nice combinations and Holyfield looks as much confused as he does hurt. The version from 88 would have done that the entire fight, for as long as it lasted and he certainly wouldnt have been there to be hit back.

Holufields heart problem was to to his steroid use;)

Since the Evan Fields thing cropped up, where drugs were being sent to his address and he answered the number that had been given, he hasgiven the shit excuse that the growth hormone was for his dad!!!!;D

What a twat!

The fight was 1st proposed in 1990 not years later when Tyson's skill was declining, let's not make stuff up.

In 1990 for a warmup fight against Douglass, Tyson got his ass whooped where Don King and Tyson fans till this day were trying to discredit Douglass as some bullshit long count. Holyfield and Tyson was suppose to fight in the fall of 1990 but Tyson got his ass ko.

And in 1991 after the 2nd RUddock fight Tyson was suppose to fight Holyfield in the fall but got a rib injury then caught a rape case.

And Styles make fights, who cares if Cooper dropped Holyfield? Holyfield was even backed by Cus D'amato fighters like Torres and Patterson that he just has Tyson's number and would kick his ass at any point in time. Even Teddy Atlas agreed with them. Tyson didn't have it to ever beat Holyfield.
06-01-2011, 08:08 PM
Master

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

Quote:

Originally Posted by generalbulldog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spicoli

Quote:

Originally Posted by miles

Tyson had been in jail for 3 plus years when he faced Holyfield, he had been out of boxing for various reasons for 5 plus against Lewis. Those wins don't mean all that much as Tyson was done. Tyson had years of skills erosion, whilst those other two were refining their craft. They never met at equal junctures in their careers. Tyson beats both of them prime on prime.

:cwm13: Revisionanist history much ;D Hindsight is a wonderful thing but ya just can't have it both ways. After a "shot" Holyfield who was being called a walking dead man going in, then yes, Tysons skills had hastily eroded.

I'd have loved a prime for prime Holyfield vs Tyson...if only Mike had not backed out years earlier.

Yeah, many people were worried for Holyfield's life because he didn't look that good in the Bobby Cyz fight. Holyfield was considered to be a shot fighter with stamina and heart problems going into that 1st Tyson fight. Also Tyson was quickly regaining his aura of invincibility after knocking out 2 hw title holders in Bruno and Seldon in spectacular fashion and had 2 of the 3 hw titles.

Here's a fun fact. Jose Torres and Floyd Patterson gave the opinion that Mike Tyson would always lose to a Evander Holyfield no matter when they would have fought because Holyfield had the right style and tools to beat Tyson. 2 Cus Damato fighters said that.

You are forgetting that Tyson was avoiding fighting Lewis and relinquished the WBC title so he could fight Holyfield because he thought Holyfield was an easier option and it also implied that Tyson felt he was not able to beat Lewis. Tyson was not the same fighter when he came out of jail, he had manoeuvred his way to get a title but he had nothing left.
06-01-2011, 08:50 PM
Spicoli

Re: Tyson of 1988 versus Lewis of 1999

I'm still scratching my head on when this great erosion of skill happened in Tyson within the devistating ko of Spinks till the Douglas 1st bell a yr and few months later? Was it the 6,7 rounds in between vs chinny Williams or a deer in the headlights Bruno? I think it had more to do with finally running into a fluid mobile combination puncher who didn't shit himself when Mike yelled "boo" and had superior mental make up. All things Holyfield owned. That Cooper shot gets greatly blown out of proportion and it doesn't translate to Mike whacking him that easily if he had not pulled out. What, if it was Evander instead of Douglas vs a 'slipping' Tyson that Feb night the result would have same as well? Holyfield recovered btw and almost ripped Berts head off his shoulders, Mike, ehh, not so much.

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