Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

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01-20-2012, 08:08 PM
Dia bando

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Tommy Hearns is my favorite fighter of all time , but It is my opinion that Marvin was just a bad style for Tommy , yes breaking his hand was a huge handicap when you are trying for a quick KO against one of the strongest chins in history.
But i think Marvin would get to Tommy at some point and stop him, thats my view and im a Tommy Hearns fan.

Yes Al I agree Tommy was a great fighter, but Marvin was like a Pit Bull he was relentless those were
day's shit do I miss them.;D
01-21-2012, 03:46 AM
PUGWARRIOR

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dia bando

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

Tommy Hearns is my favorite fighter of all time , but It is my opinion that Marvin was just a bad style for Tommy , yes breaking his hand was a huge handicap when you are trying for a quick KO against one of the strongest chins in history.
But i think Marvin would get to Tommy at some point and stop him, thats my view and im a Tommy Hearns fan.

Yes Al I agree Tommy was a great fighter, but Marvin was like a Pit Bull he was relentless those were
day's shit do I miss them.;D

Agreed...the 1980`s were the best years to be a boxing fan...the fighters and the action and drama were amazing...i always say that as fun as MMA is to watch there best fights couldnt match the drama of say a hagler / hearns fight ..or holmes vs cooney just to name 2 from that decade...thank god i can youtube any fight i want and relive them over and over
01-23-2012, 04:51 AM
Slim the BoxingManiac

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master

Yes, Hearns had the tools and skills to stay away from Hagler and possibly win on points. He did injure his hand in the fight and his legs were weak as well. So he could do it and he always wanted a return as he felt he could beat Hagler. He did unofficially beat Leonard.

Nobody had the tools to stay away from Hagler. Nobody. The guy was too focused, and too aggressive. Especially the version of Hagler that fought Hearns.

Let's put it this way. Was there any man who could have ever stayed away from a prime Hagler, Marciano, or Frazier?

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

Tommy beats Marvin in a return match. Hagler was taylor made for Hearns. Slow hands would have killed marvin in a return fight. If they box at all Tommy knocks Marvin down with combinations. The reason Marvin didnt get knocked out in the first fight is that he always had his neck in the "flexed position" waging war. In a return fight Marvin would be forced to box Hearns thus exposing his chin and relaxing his neck resulting in FLASH KNOCKDOWN's. Marvin was very lucky Hearns fought him the way he did in 1985. Hearns biggest problem is he had a bad trainer/manager. Both Hagler and Leonard's trainer out managed Hearns trainer. Had Hearns had Dundee as his trainer he beats everyone. Hearns was the best boxer, had the most FLASH power, and had the best footwoork of all his opponents. Hagler gets sliced up and stopped in a return match IMO
Hearns and Hagler wasnt a boxing match it was a street fight. Hearns has it all over Hagler from a boxing prospective. Not even close. Yes Marvin was stronger

This guy right here is a moron. I'll tell you why. I even had to stop reading after a few pages because of how strong this guys Hearns nuthuggery is. I love Hearns. But I've never seen anybody hug his nuts quite that hard.

1. Marvin did not have slow hands. You're an idiot for even saying that.
2. Neck in the flexed position? Are you retarded? If that's the case, than Marvin never fought without his neck in the flexed position, so you're an idiot.
3. Hagler has magnificent fucking footwork. Try and disprove me, dude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

Nobody beats Hagler in a shoot out at 160. Maybe Hearns. Fighting Hearns is like playing with matches next to a fire or trying to defuse a bomb. I can very easily see Hearns putting haglers lights out with one good setup punch. If hagler tried to get inside again Hearns would have held him in the second fight. Once hearns settled hagler down to a boxing match - hagler either gets KO'd, Tko'd by cuts, or out outpointed. a 5 year retired Ray Leonard outpointed hagler. Hearns wins an easy 5 point decision or tko on cuts. Leonard exposed Hagler bigtime. Even Hearns said Leonard would beat Hagler. Tommys weakness was his management not his skills. He was the class of that era with bad management. Can you imagine if Goody and Pat or Dundee trained Hearns. Dont get me wrong I love Hagler but he was tied for 3rd best with Duran in that fab 4. Hearns Leonard 1-2

4. Hearns would never in his wildest dreams "settle" Hagler down. How the fuck do you even imagine that as something that could be done?
5. Ray Leonard caught Hagler on his way out. Hagler lost his fire. He didn't want to box anymore, and he was going to retire. He was tipping off of the boxing page, and Mugabi pushed him over. Leonard merely caught him at the right time.
6. How in the fuck was Hagler tied for third best with Duran? He beat Duran by UD. He beat Hearns as well! That would put him as number two, Einstein.

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

Hagler could never replicate that performance. Hearns had more upside in a second fight. Hagler could'nt adjust. If Hagler came with the same hand speed from the Mugabi or Leonard fight then Hearns eats him alive. People judge Hagler off that one fight. As a boxer Hagler would'nt have a chance against Hearns. If he chose to box Hearns- Hagler gets knocked out or stoped on cuts. If he pressured Hearns- Hearns would hold him and not "exchange with Hagler" thus wearing down. Also I'm convinced theres a good chance Hearns hurts Hagler in a second fight. Not from a brawl but from long range. Hagler earned the first fight. But Tommy was the better fighter. Also Hagler was not the same fighter after the Hearns fight. Tommy was still in his prime.

7. Hagler is known for being able to adjust to his opponents.
8. Hagler was shot when he fought Leonard and Mugabi.
9. After the Hearns fight, he was on the downfall. He didn't want to box so much anymore. He was beginning to lose his fire. He became civilized. He had the money, the belts, he'd just knocked out Tommy Hearns. He was ready to settle down and relax. The guys mentality completely changed. That's the only reason that Thomas Hearns would have beaten Hagler. But Tommy Hearns would have never beaten a PRIME Hagler.

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

Quote:

Originally Posted by LobowolfXXX

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitoFan

There's no reason to automatically rule out Hearns in a rematch. Of course, he'd have to change tactics, seeing as to how his Plan A in the 1st fight didn't work out very well. He came out like gangbusters in Round 1 to try to impose his will and his power on Hagler, who always had a good chin. He lost that battle. Who's to say he couldn't come out in a second fight and just use his jab and boxing skills for a few rounds until he warmed up... and THEN start throwing some ill-intentioned right hands at Hagler? It's possible.

I agree that it's "possible," and I don't "automatically" rule it out; the problem I see with it is that it's essentially the plan that didn't work against Leonard. Again, why assume that he would make it to the final bell against Hagler, when he couldn't do it against Leonard? Especially given that 1) Hagler hit harder than Leonard, and 2) Hearns had more KO power at 147 than at higher weights.

Hagler DID NOT HIT HARDER THAN LEONARD.................... Maybe equal. Ray had knock out power in both hands and proved it above 160. Hearns floored Leonard above 147, Duran above 147, Andres above 147 (WBC Light Heavy title), Roldan above 147 (WBC middle weight title) Get you facts straight

10. Hagler did hit harder than Leonard. Hagler also had knockout power in both hands, and proved it. You haven't disproved any of the guys points.
11. The guy said that Hearns had more KO power at 147 than at other weights. So you name off his accomplishments at 147 and tell him to get his facts straight? That makes no sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinitoElDinamita

Never.. Ive heard people saying Hearns could have won had he not got into a brawl but I think Hagler would have beaten him either way.. Hearns could have boxed more in spots but at some point in the fight, he would have got into a tear up and knocked out late..

Hagler's style was all wrong for him..

Hearns handed him the fight on a silver platter. Hagler couldnt exchange with Hearns in sharp quick exchanges. Only bar room tatics with no defense.

:facepalm:

12. Those 'bar room tactics' were enough for Hagler to knock Hearns the fuck out. Boxing is all about tactics and skills. I've never once seen an untrained brawler beat an experienced boxer. Because it doesn't fucking happen, buddy.

Reply to each of these points specifically, and number them, as well. Prove to me you're not as stupid as you look.
01-23-2012, 03:37 PM
Jody Lane

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

Apparently Hagler told Hearns not to cut him or it would end up in a real fight which it did.

Yes I read that about the massage too, it seems like speculation by Steward though when answering why it went wrong.

Hearns defiantly got the tactics wrong though, but it was never in his nature to step down if someone wanted to fight him. This defiantly was the reason why he lost the fight though. If he had more discipline to his game plan and the factors I mentioned before would he have been able to have beaten Hagler?

I don't think it was deep massage that had anything to do with it. It's not like Hagler was hitting him in the leg. I think it all had to do with Hagler hitting him in the head.

As for the fight happening earlier, say 1983,I think Hearns would have been wiped out just as quick and his career would have suffered more from it.
01-23-2012, 04:53 PM
Slim the BoxingManiac

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody Lane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

Apparently Hagler told Hearns not to cut him or it would end up in a real fight which it did.

Yes I read that about the massage too, it seems like speculation by Steward though when answering why it went wrong.

Hearns defiantly got the tactics wrong though, but it was never in his nature to step down if someone wanted to fight him. This defiantly was the reason why he lost the fight though. If he had more discipline to his game plan and the factors I mentioned before would he have been able to have beaten Hagler?

I don't think it was deep massage that had anything to do with it. It's not like Hagler was hitting him in the leg. I think it all had to do with Hagler hitting him in the head.

As for the fight happening earlier, say 1983,I think Hearns would have been wiped out just as quick and his career would have suffered more from it.

I agree, Jody. It seems like people are a lot more accepting of excuses these days. When it comes to being working class people who have to make money doing hard work, we can't really afford to have excuses for why we couldn't get the job done. Instead, for the better, we do everything in our power to get it done right.

I don't think it's too much to hold fighters to this standard, too. Their entire career is boxing, but they don't treat it that way. Excuses will always come up instead of the truth. The truth usually being that they didn't have what it took to win, or they didn't try hard enough. In Hearns case it would have been that he tried hard, had a good game plan, and did his best in the ring. He lost because he couldn't stand up to the Hagler hurricane.

Excuses simply don't cut it.
01-23-2012, 11:34 PM
Dia bando

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Let's face fact's Hagler is a Ring Great this guy is one of the best Middle Weight's in boxing history
Tommy hit him cut him, and Marvin still beat Tommy what a fight.;D
01-24-2012, 01:36 AM
PUGWARRIOR

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

This whole''if hagler gave hearns a rematch '' crap drives me crazy...they both had the same amount of time to train and develope a fight plan and then they fought...best man wins...and hagler was the best man in that fight...period. In my opinion the only reasons a rematch should be in order between fighters is if there was a controversial stoppage( head butt ) ...the scoring was waaay off and something smelled bad or the fight was so exciting and competative the fans wanted more(gatti vs ward for example)...while the fight was awesome for as long as it lasted haglers stoppage of hearns was so decisive with hearns litterally being carried`like a child by his handlers i saw no reason for a rematch without hearns doing something in his next few fights to earn a rematch....by then it was too late because hagler pretty much blew his last real load on mugabi...he was 75 % of what he was at his best vs leonard and he never looked back...so just deal with the fact that while hearns was a machine of distruction in most of his fights he just didnt have it vs hagler...case closed.
03-09-2012, 07:34 PM
electivemed

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

The only knock out is going to be me knocking you out.
The final facts are this:
Hagler cried and ran like a little girl after he was soundly beat by Leonard. He should have fought Hearns and the winner got Leonard.
After the Hearns fight Hagler was never the same. He would have been destroyed by Hearns in a return fight.
Haglers weak mind was exposed by Leonard.
03-09-2012, 07:38 PM
electivemed

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Haglers weak mind was exposed by Leonard. He is the true dumbass and you’re a close second son…………… As for the rest of your mindless banter it speaks for itself. I think you need to start riding the little yellow short bus…………………….

And yeah I'm talking to you dim Slim......................
03-09-2012, 07:38 PM
Slim the BoxingManiac

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

The only knock out is going to be me knocking you out.
The final facts are this:
Hagler cried and ran like a little girl after he was soundly beat by Leonard. He should have fought Hearns and the winner got Leonard.
After the Hearns fight Hagler was never the same. He would have been destroyed by Hearns in a return fight.
Haglers weak mind was exposed by Leonard.

Okay dumbass. Let's debate your final facts.

-Hagler wasn't beaten soundly. It's hotly contested to this day whether or not Leonard won that fight.
-He retired because he was out of it. That's why he lost to Leonard. Could Hearns have beaten him? Sure. But that's not the point. Hagler knew he was done.
-You're right about Hagler not being the same after Hearns.
-Hagler's weak mind? That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. Slap your parents for ever producing such a retarded offspring.

Refute! ;D
03-09-2012, 07:48 PM
electivemed

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim the boxingmaniac

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

the only knock out is going to be me knocking you out.
The final facts are this:
Hagler cried and ran like a little girl after he was soundly beat by leonard. He should have fought hearns and the winner got leonard.
After the hearns fight hagler was never the same. He would have been destroyed by hearns in a return fight.
Haglers weak mind was exposed by leonard.

okay dumbass. Let's debate your final facts.

-hagler wasn't beaten soundly. It's hotly contested to this day whether or not leonard won that fight.
-he retired because he was out of it. That's why he lost to leonard. Could hearns have beaten him? Sure. But that's not the point. Hagler knew he was done.
-you're right about hagler not being the same after hearns.
-hagler's weak mind? That's the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life. Slap your parents for ever producing such a retarded offspring.

Refute! ;d

as in: Short bus dim slim do you need a picture?
03-09-2012, 07:58 PM
Dia bando

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

The only knock out is going to be me knocking you out.
The final facts are this:
Hagler cried and ran like a little girl after he was soundly beat by Leonard. He should have fought Hearns and the winner got Leonard.
After the Hearns fight Hagler was never the same. He would have been destroyed by Hearns in a return fight.
Haglers weak mind was exposed by Leonard.

Okay dumbass. Let's debate your final facts.

-Hagler wasn't beaten soundly. It's hotly contested to this day whether or not Leonard won that fight.
-He retired because he was out of it. That's why he lost to Leonard. Could Hearns have beaten him? Sure. But that's not the point. Hagler knew he was done.
-You're right about Hagler not being the same after Hearns.
-Hagler's weak mind? That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. Slap your parents for ever producing such a retarded offspring.

Refute! ;D

The thing with that fight, Leonard was shitting himself he was wide eyed never seen him so full of fear
Hagler wanted to smash him to bit's. Remember Hagler had some very hard fight in his career he took
on all comer's . This guy was a true Champion, one of the very best middleweight's that ever got in the ring, some so called Champ's today not fit to carry his spit bucket rubbish compared to this man.
03-09-2012, 08:03 PM
electivemed

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dia bando

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

The only knock out is going to be me knocking you out.
The final facts are this:
Hagler cried and ran like a little girl after he was soundly beat by Leonard. He should have fought Hearns and the winner got Leonard.
After the Hearns fight Hagler was never the same. He would have been destroyed by Hearns in a return fight.
Haglers weak mind was exposed by Leonard.

Okay dumbass. Let's debate your final facts.

-Hagler wasn't beaten soundly. It's hotly contested to this day whether or not Leonard won that fight.
-He retired because he was out of it. That's why he lost to Leonard. Could Hearns have beaten him? Sure. But that's not the point. Hagler knew he was done.
-You're right about Hagler not being the same after Hearns.
-Hagler's weak mind? That's the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my entire life. Slap your parents for ever producing such a retarded offspring.

Refute! ;D

The thing with that fight, Leonard was shitting himself he was wide eyed never seen him so full of fear
Hagler wanted to smash him to bit's. Remember Hagler had some very hard fight in his career he took
on all comer's . This guy was a true Champion, one of the very best middleweight's that ever got in the ring, some so called Champ's today not fit to carry his spit bucket rubbish compared to this man.

agree
03-09-2012, 08:11 PM
electivemed

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody Lane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

Apparently Hagler told Hearns not to cut him or it would end up in a real fight which it did.

Yes I read that about the massage too, it seems like speculation by Steward though when answering why it went wrong.

Hearns defiantly got the tactics wrong though, but it was never in his nature to step down if someone wanted to fight him. This defiantly was the reason why he lost the fight though. If he had more discipline to his game plan and the factors I mentioned before would he have been able to have beaten Hagler?

I don't think it was deep massage that had anything to do with it. It's not like Hagler was hitting him in the leg. I think it all had to do with Hagler hitting him in the head.

As for the fight happening earlier, say 1983,I think Hearns would have been wiped out just as quick and his career would have suffered more from it.

I agree, Jody. It seems like people are a lot more accepting of excuses these days. When it comes to being working class people who have to make money doing hard work, we can't really afford to have excuses for why we couldn't get the job done. Instead, for the better, we do everything in our power to get it done right.

I don't think it's too much to hold fighters to this standard, too. Their entire career is boxing, but they don't treat it that way. Excuses will always come up instead of the truth. The truth usually being that they didn't have what it took to win, or they didn't try hard enough. In Hearns case it would have been that he tried hard, had a good game plan, and did his best in the ring. He lost because he couldn't stand up to the Hagler hurricane.

Excuses simply don't cut it.

And the exact same thing happened to Hagler in the Leonard fight as well. Hagler had his ears boxed off. The age excuse and other excuses you bring up only support his mental weaknesses and inferior boxing skills against Leonard and Hearns............. Hagler fought Leonard hard, tried hard, and lost big

Excuses simply dont cut it...................
03-09-2012, 08:30 PM
Slim the BoxingManiac

Re: Could Hearns have ever beaten Hagler?

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

Quote:

Originally Posted by slim the boxingmaniac

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

the only knock out is going to be me knocking you out.
The final facts are this:
Hagler cried and ran like a little girl after he was soundly beat by leonard. He should have fought hearns and the winner got leonard.
After the hearns fight hagler was never the same. He would have been destroyed by hearns in a return fight.
Haglers weak mind was exposed by leonard.

okay dumbass. Let's debate your final facts.

-hagler wasn't beaten soundly. It's hotly contested to this day whether or not leonard won that fight.
-he retired because he was out of it. That's why he lost to leonard. Could hearns have beaten him? Sure. But that's not the point. Hagler knew he was done.
-you're right about hagler not being the same after hearns.
-hagler's weak mind? That's the stupidest thing i have ever heard in my entire life. Slap your parents for ever producing such a retarded offspring.

Refute! ;d

as in: Short bus dim slim do you need a picture?

I'm sorry, do you have any points to make?

Quote:

Originally Posted by electivemed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slim the BoxingManiac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jody Lane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tam Seddon

Apparently Hagler told Hearns not to cut him or it would end up in a real fight which it did.

Yes I read that about the massage too, it seems like speculation by Steward though when answering why it went wrong.

Hearns defiantly got the tactics wrong though, but it was never in his nature to step down if someone wanted to fight him. This defiantly was the reason why he lost the fight though. If he had more discipline to his game plan and the factors I mentioned before would he have been able to have beaten Hagler?

I don't think it was deep massage that had anything to do with it. It's not like Hagler was hitting him in the leg. I think it all had to do with Hagler hitting him in the head.

As for the fight happening earlier, say 1983,I think Hearns would have been wiped out just as quick and his career would have suffered more from it.

I agree, Jody. It seems like people are a lot more accepting of excuses these days. When it comes to being working class people who have to make money doing hard work, we can't really afford to have excuses for why we couldn't get the job done. Instead, for the better, we do everything in our power to get it done right.

I don't think it's too much to hold fighters to this standard, too. Their entire career is boxing, but they don't treat it that way. Excuses will always come up instead of the truth. The truth usually being that they didn't have what it took to win, or they didn't try hard enough. In Hearns case it would have been that he tried hard, had a good game plan, and did his best in the ring. He lost because he couldn't stand up to the Hagler hurricane.

Excuses simply don't cut it.

And the exact same thing happened to Hagler in the Leonard fight as well. Hagler had his ears boxed off. The age excuse and other excuses you bring up only support his mental weaknesses and inferior boxing skills against Leonard and Hearns............. Hagler fought Leonard hard, tried hard, and lost big

Excuses simply dont cut it...................

I already refuted all of these points in my other post where you didn't have a reply. Please try to show me some logic.

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