Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Although I believe you are exaggerating about Hopkins, I also believe that you are touching on a possible answer to the question being posed. Hopkins was not born with all of that "natural" ability and learned his craft in the school of hard knocks. He's as much a modern day James Scott as he is a 21st century Archie Moore. And therein lies the difference imo. And its not just the physical difference. Hops style is built for longevity, Roys was not. But just as strongly imo is what rests above the shoulders. Hops attitude which was gained from his past is just as resilient as his skills.
And ftr fighters have been taking advantage of where the ref is forever. Many of Hops shots that are called cheap are actually smart. He had the anticipation of the break down to a science and rode the line on "protect yourself at all times." I dont think he's near the dirty fighter that he is accused of being. The same ring generalship and study he uses against fighters he also uses with the refs.
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
He did but Spinks, charles and Foster would beat him. Do not spit on me either.
Of course they would :gay5:
Do not go on what you see, sometimes it is an illusion. :)
Illusions only work on people dumb enough to be taken in by them.
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
He did but Spinks, charles and Foster would beat him. Do not spit on me either.
Of course they would :gay5:
Do not go on what you see, sometimes it is an illusion. :)
Illusions only work on people dumb enough to be taken in by them.
Yes you made my point for me. :)
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
I highly doubt Hopkins has never taken anything. The issue with that ripped fuel stuff was that something in was anabolic, at least that's what I understood, it was a legal supplement though. And as that link clearly says there wasn't comprehensive testing done.
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Anyone remember 'mad' Hopkins got when Pascal asked him to take the test?
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
I'm not making excuses. They both took a SUBSTANCE THAT WAS LEGAL and the Ibf was not the ones that sanctioned the fight. It was the WBC even though all 3 belts were on the line. Jones also tested negative after the fight twice and the commission let it go. They let it go because it was not a blanketed banned substance at the time. Both guys technically cheated I guess but people make it sound like Roy was some kind of chronic juicer and that's a crock of shit. And comparing what Manny did and the reason he's suspected and Roy Jones is ridiculous. Reducing this to some "fan boy" bullshit is just as weak.
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
I'm not making excuses. They both took a SUBSTANCE THAT WAS LEGAL and the Ibf was not the ones that sanctioned the fight. It was the WBC even though all 3 belts were on the line. Jones also tested negative after the fight twice and the commission let it go. They let it go because it was not a blanketed banned substance at the time. Both guys technically cheated I guess but people make it sound like Roy was some kind of chronic juicer and that's a crock of shit. And comparing what Manny did and the reason he's suspected and Roy Jones is ridiculous. Reducing this to some "fan boy" bullshit is just as weak.
No, I'll call the bullshit what it is. Manny should be banned from the sport by the Jones fanboys, but Jones supposedly is "innocent," "didn't know," "clean," same lameass hypocritical excuses internet fans also used for Mosley. Call it what it is, hypocrisy. Like I said, the fanboys will defend their favorites, while demonizing others that they don't like. I call it for what it is, no bullshit fanboy hypocrisy from me.
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
I'm not making excuses. They both took a SUBSTANCE THAT WAS LEGAL and the Ibf was not the ones that sanctioned the fight. It was the WBC even though all 3 belts were on the line. Jones also tested negative after the fight twice and the commission let it go. They let it go because it was not a blanketed banned substance at the time. Both guys technically cheated I guess but people make it sound like Roy was some kind of chronic juicer and that's a crock of shit. And comparing what Manny did and the reason he's suspected and Roy Jones is ridiculous. Reducing this to some "fan boy" bullshit is just as weak.
No, I'll call the bullshit what it is. Manny should be banned from the sport by the Jones fanboys, but Jones supposedly is "innocent," "didn't know," "clean," same lameass hypocritical excuses internet fans also used for Mosley. Call it what it is, hypocrisy. Like I said, the fanboys will defend their favorites, while demonizing others that they don't like. I call it for what it is, no bullshit fanboy hypocrisy from me.
Call your own posts what they are then, you hardly come across as non partisan around here;) I think Inuit, like most hardcore fans, realizes how rampant drugs are in the sport. The fact is Roy never actually tested positive for a specifically banned substance, whether he did use them and got away with it is anyones guess, just as it is for practically every elite fighter of the past few decades. Mosley was on the BALCO mailing list and has since admitted to using, it's a little bit different.
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
I'm not making excuses. They both took a SUBSTANCE THAT WAS LEGAL and the Ibf was not the ones that sanctioned the fight. It was the WBC even though all 3 belts were on the line. Jones also tested negative after the fight twice and the commission let it go. They let it go because it was not a blanketed banned substance at the time. Both guys technically cheated I guess but people make it sound like Roy was some kind of chronic juicer and that's a crock of shit. And comparing what Manny did and the reason he's suspected and Roy Jones is ridiculous. Reducing this to some "fan boy" bullshit is just as weak.
No, I'll call the bullshit what it is. Manny should be banned from the sport by the Jones fanboys, but Jones supposedly is "innocent," "didn't know," "clean," same lameass hypocritical excuses internet fans also used for Mosley. Call it what it is, hypocrisy. Like I said, the fanboys will defend their favorites, while demonizing others that they don't like. I call it for what it is, no bullshit fanboy hypocrisy from me.
That is exactly what I just did. Not only that this has nothing to do with the question asked unless you are saying a stint with ripped fuel separates the two somehow. I call them like I see them to and have a pet peeve about revisionist history. Grebs my all time favourite fighter and I have no problem in saying that he is one of the dirtiest fighters that ever laced them up. I also have no problem saying Roy should have developed his jab whether he needed it or not because it may have extended his career in a more positive light. However I'm not going to accept anyone suggesting that he was a chronic cheater based on one episode with ripped fuel.
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
p4pking
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IamInuit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
generalbulldog
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ruthless rocco
Roy didn't cheat to win.
He didn't pretend to be hurt to gain an advantage.
He didn't foul blatantly when the ref was out of view.
He didn't need to.
His reflexes and natural athletic abilities were all he needed to beat anyone when he was young. As he got older these natural abilities started to slip and he lost his luster.
Quote:
Both Jones and Hall tested positive for anabolic steroids after the fight. "Jones was five or six times over an acceptable level," said Jacob Hall, who was chairman of the Indiana State Athletic Commission. "Hall was about ten times above an acceptable level." Jones insisted his positive test was the result of ingesting the supplement Ripped Fuel. No penalties or suspensions were issued because Indiana, like many states, had no legal authority to test for steroids. The IBF sent letters to Jones and Hall informing each man that he had tested positive for an unspecified anabolic steroid, but no further action was taken.
Roy Jones Jr. vs. Richard Hall - Boxrec Boxing Encyclopaedia
Game. Set. Match. Imagine if Hopkins took steroids or other PEDs, imagine how much greater Hopkins would be.
Nice to know boxrec gets more then the records wrong. It was not steroids and it was Hall that tested much higher then Jones. Ripped fuel was sold legally and sure it may have had a steroid in its makeup but lots of meds do
There are links in the boxrec. Jones excuse was the Ripped fuel, just like Barry Bonds excuse was, "I thought it was flaxseed oil," and numerous other athletes that have been caught have the same excuses. "I didn't know," is the most famous one used, Shane Mosley also used it famously in his connection with Balco, as did Marion Jones and most of the guys in the NFL, MLB, and many other leagues. "I didn't Know."
I call it what it is. I don't defend guys because I'm some sort of blind fanboy. BTW, just a note, I thought it was interesting that the same people defending Jones Jr. and his failed drug tests, are the same ones that called Pacquiao a dirty cheat that should have been banned from the sport. But as I know about boxing fans on the internet very well is that they'll make all kinds of excuses for the favorite fighters while demonizing others. I call it what it is. No bullshit and hypocrisy from me.
I'm not making excuses. They both took a SUBSTANCE THAT WAS LEGAL and the Ibf was not the ones that sanctioned the fight. It was the WBC even though all 3 belts were on the line. Jones also tested negative after the fight twice and the commission let it go. They let it go because it was not a blanketed banned substance at the time. Both guys technically cheated I guess but people make it sound like Roy was some kind of chronic juicer and that's a crock of shit. And comparing what Manny did and the reason he's suspected and Roy Jones is ridiculous. Reducing this to some "fan boy" bullshit is just as weak.
No, I'll call the bullshit what it is. Manny should be banned from the sport by the Jones fanboys, but Jones supposedly is "innocent," "didn't know," "clean," same lameass hypocritical excuses internet fans also used for Mosley. Call it what it is, hypocrisy. Like I said, the fanboys will defend their favorites, while demonizing others that they don't like. I call it for what it is, no bullshit fanboy hypocrisy from me.
Call your own posts what they are then, you hardly come across as non partisan around here;) I think Inuit, like most hardcore fans, realizes how rampant drugs are in the sport. The fact is Roy never actually tested positive for a specifically banned substance, whether he did use them and got away with it is anyones guess, just as it is for practically every elite fighter of the past few decades. Mosley was on the BALCO mailing list and has since admitted to using, it's a little bit different.
Check my posts history. I'm actually pretty non biased compared to internet fanboys and have gotten into arguments with them about their fighters, whether it be Ali, Tyson, Mayweather, Pacquiao, De la HOya, Mosley, Cotto, Garcia and yes Jones Jr. I sure as hell don't sugarcoat it. And Jones did test positive for banned substances, unless you're telling me anabolic steroids was legal back then.
Re: What does Hopkins have that Jones doesn't?
Aside from different dna, different training, different intellect, safer focus, tighter style plays the hand he was dealt and collected closer to his chest,measured in for long haul.
Roy was about risk n reward, probably a freer training regime :-\, footloose fancy free, relaxed attitude so the body follows as did the relaxed guard and shoulders allowing him to get in his own zone faster,shoot from the hip,hitting during moves for more speed and percussion, more risks, more damage given and undertaken, risked his whole hand while playing them face up.
I love watching one and appreciate the other with reverence.
