American confederate flag

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

States Rights to peacefully secede. The 10th albeit all too forgotten Amendment. The men who fought for their homes and families not all of whom were slave owners and not all of whom were white.

The flag shouldn't be on the South Carolina state capitol grounds as it was put there in opposition to desegregation....but not selling the flag at Gettysburg or Antietam or other battlegrounds that's a horrible historical precedent to set.

Not everyone sees the flag as offensive, now the question is how many have to deem something offensive before it's removed?

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If it's private property,a person should have the right to wave any flag they choose.
I have a cousin who is the only one.....within blocks to have the American flag on his front porch.

Right next to the Green Bay Packers flag!

I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?

Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?

These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Copying from an online source Kirkland? I'm sorry, that's not allowed......just holding you to your own asinine standard jackass.

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Linking to something online Lyle, not copying it and pretending I thought of it myself which is what you did.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

States Rights to peacefully secede. The 10th albeit all too forgotten Amendment. The men who fought for their homes and families not all of whom were slave owners and not all of whom were white.

The flag shouldn't be on the South Carolina state capitol grounds as it was put there in opposition to desegregation....but not selling the flag at Gettysburg or Antietam or other battlegrounds that's a horrible historical precedent to set.

Not everyone sees the flag as offensive, now the question is how many have to deem something offensive before it's removed?

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How many people need to see the flag of slavery , of treason and of terrorism to be offensive before the rest of you will respect their right not to have to live under it?

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Originally Posted by X

I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?

Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?

These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......

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It would make no difference if the were black or jewish, if they are causing/inciting fear and distress they would not be allowed to put up flags that are not allowed.

Kirkland, I'm not debating you. Slaves of the Confederacy were freed in 1863 under the Emancipation Proclamation...the war continued on for 2 more years. 2 more years where border states STILL had slavery. Again, this isn't a debate this is a fucking history lesson you twat.

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Originally Posted by X

I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?

Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?

These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......

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Well then you'd be able to tell your neighbor was an out and proud jackass, whom you'd want as little contact with as possible. A KKK flag? Is there such a thing???

Here's the deal with Free Speech...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9cYuQonbXs
...you either believe in it or you don't

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Originally Posted by Master

It would make no difference if the were black or jewish, if they are causing/inciting fear and distress they would not be allowed to put up flags that are not allowed.

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In favor of censorship by a totalitarian government? Then allow them to fly whatever flag they wish to!

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Originally Posted by X

I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?

Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?

These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......

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The what if factor....

then would have no probable end.


What if a Japanese had a sign in their front window stating :Chinese are the sick men of Asia, right next door to one?

What if someone decided to place a bumper sticker on their car like: Jewish ashtray on board

Or a bumper sticker that asked: What do you call a nigger in a tree with a briefcase? Branch manager
With a picture of a monkey hanging on to a branch with one hand & a briefcase with the other.

President Bush & Obama both have had effigy of them burned...right here in America- by voters at that. Isn't that hateful? I can't stand what Bush Jr did to America- but to burn a likeness of him?
Not in my heart.

Where do we draw the line? flags, mementos, symbols can offend anyone for any reason be it racial, social, ethnic, gender, age.

Flags to the best of my ability have never caused a war, never caused death. The confederate flag or a Nazi swastika has no power. -Take them away and hateful people will still exist.

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

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Originally Posted by X

I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?

Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?

These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......

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The what if factor....

then would have no probable end.


What if a Japanese had a sign in their front window stating :Chinese are the sick men of Asia, right next door to one?

What if someone decided to place a bumper sticker on their car like: Jewish ashtray on board

Or a bumper sticker that asked: What do you call a nigger in a tree with a briefcase? Branch manager
With a picture of a monkey hanging on to a branch with one hand & a briefcase with the other.

President Bush & Obama both have had effigy of them burned...right here in America- by voters at that. Isn't that hateful? I can't stand what Bush Jr did to America- but to burn a likeness of him?
Not in my heart.

Where do we draw the line? flags, mementos, symbols can offend anyone for any reason be it racial, social, ethnic, gender, age.

Flags to the best of my ability have never caused a war, never caused death. The confederate flag or a Nazi swastika has no power. -Take them away and hateful people will still exist.

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Why stoke the fires of hate needlessly, though? All in the name of freedom of speech? That's what's wrong with society. We take these damn proclamations literally and take the thinking away from the lawmakers. What? So-and-so is flying an old Nazi swastika flag in his backyard in a Jewish neighborhood, in an obvious attempt to provoke people and continue promoting hate? Well... let's just drop the ol' Constitutional 1st Amendment bag over it and everything will be fine. Next case.

Personally... I respect what those great men wrote back in the day... like the 1st and 2nd Amendments to the Constitution. In both cases, they were sorely needed. But society today uses those as a crutch to avoid tackling problems head on. Let's just quote these 200-year old documents and go on about our day... thank you very much.

Everybody and their brother can distinguish between someone expressing him/herself freely about politics, the government, religion, the economy, and other controversial issues........ and someone who is spewing hate for the sake of hate. The KKK, Neo-Nazis, skinheads, black militant groups.... etc, etc. Why continue to pretend that what they do is ok?? Is it a little more trouble to split hairs and decide who has freedom of expression and who doesn't? Damn right it is. That's why God gave people brains. A chimpanzee could quote and parrot old documents that may or may not be applicable to these times.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by X

I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?

Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?

These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......

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It would make no difference if the were black or jewish, if they are causing/inciting fear and distress they would not be allowed to put up flags that are not allowed.

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Where would you draw the line on that though? Isn't the British flag similar in that it can conjure up images of war, corruption, and inequality which are of course extremely distressing and scary things? Or how about the US flag to native Indians put on reservations? Or Palestinians who have to see the Israeli flag? I don't see anyone calling to ban those. Personally, I believe you should have whatever flag you like and that flag should be a reflection of who you are. If it is something abhorrent like a Nazi flag, then that is pretty obvious, but it should be a choice. As long as the Nazi is a peaceful one who doesn't impose upon others, then it is really none of my business. The same for anyone who wants to display the confederate flag or the Union Jack. You have to accept that different people see different things and they will express themselves accordingly. I think flags are silly and so you won't see me with one, but that is my choice too.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by X

I would normally agree with you as a matter of principle, but what if you were Jewish and your neighbour insisted on flying a Nazi swastika flag on a huge pole that you could see from your house?

Or if you were black, ditto with a National Front or KKK flag or something?

These things are not easy to make blanket statements about ......

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It would make no difference if the were black or jewish, if they are causing/inciting fear and distress they would not be allowed to put up flags that are not allowed.

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Where would you draw the line on that though? Isn't the British flag similar in that it can conjure up images of war, corruption, and inequality which are of course extremely distressing and scary things? Or how about the US flag to native Indians put on reservations? Or Palestinians who have to see the Israeli flag? I don't see anyone calling to ban those. Personally, I believe you should have whatever flag you like and that flag should be a reflection of who you are. If it is something abhorrent like a Nazi flag, then that is pretty obvious, but it should be a choice. As long as the Nazi is a peaceful one who doesn't impose upon others, then it is really none of my business. The same for anyone who wants to display the confederate flag or the Union Jack. You have to accept that different people see different things and they will express themselves accordingly. I think flags are silly and so you won't see me with one, but that is my choice too.

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Peaceful Nazi seems like a contradiction in words.

You would need someone to complain because they feel intimidated, then an authority to inquire about the persons intention who put the flag up and if it is found they did it maliciously they would be asked to take it down.

I don't think most Nazi's were kicking people in the face. In fact I would guess that many did not even realise the extent of the savagery in the system they were living because of ignorance and propaganda. You could look at the foundations of America and its behavior since WW2 and say that peaceful American is a contradiction, but I think most Americans see themselves as peaceful people and would stand by their flag. Same with the British. I just think it is just as fascistic to be telling people what they can and cannot believe. Just as long as you don't turn violent (funny how the state can never resist that temptation), then you should be able to express yourself. Where does it lead to? Banning books? Punk rock records? People shouldn't so readily consent to the loss of expression. If somebody wants to be such a turd that they need to associate with a Nazi flag, then that person should be the billy no mates of the street. You don't need to ban things in order to change attitudes.

It's gotten ridiculous. I just read they took reruns of Dukes of Hazzard off the TV because of the General Lee. What a fucking joke.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I don't think most Nazi's were kicking people in the face. In fact I would guess that many did not even realise the extent of the savagery in the system they were living because of ignorance and propaganda. You could look at the foundations of America and its behavior since WW2 and say that peaceful American is a contradiction, but I think most Americans see themselves as peaceful people and would stand by their flag. Same with the British. I just think it is just as fascistic to be telling people what they can and cannot believe. Just as long as you don't turn violent (funny how the state can never resist that temptation), then you should be able to express yourself. Where does it lead to? Banning books? Punk rock records? People shouldn't so readily consent to the loss of expression. If somebody wants to be such a turd that they need to associate with a Nazi flag, then that person should be the billy no mates of the street. You don't need to ban things in order to change attitudes.

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I burn the South Korean flag everyday in protest of its genocide of Christians, marching them off that cliff and what not.

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Originally Posted by walrus

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

I don't think most Nazi's were kicking people in the face. In fact I would guess that many did not even realise the extent of the savagery in the system they were living because of ignorance and propaganda. You could look at the foundations of America and its behavior since WW2 and say that peaceful American is a contradiction, but I think most Americans see themselves as peaceful people and would stand by their flag. Same with the British. I just think it is just as fascistic to be telling people what they can and cannot believe. Just as long as you don't turn violent (funny how the state can never resist that temptation), then you should be able to express yourself. Where does it lead to? Banning books? Punk rock records? People shouldn't so readily consent to the loss of expression. If somebody wants to be such a turd that they need to associate with a Nazi flag, then that person should be the billy no mates of the street. You don't need to ban things in order to change attitudes.

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I burn the South Korean flag everyday in protest of its genocide of Christians, marching them off that cliff and what not.

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Eh, Walrus? ;D

I don't mind the Korean flag as it is a badge of honour against oppression, which you cannot say about the more violent nations in this world. I'm not a flag person, but the SK flag is one of the least offensive. At least the way I see it anyway.