Hearn turns down title shot for AJ???

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Originally Posted by Memphis

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Originally Posted by ross

Its how stiff he looked. Like a robot, thats how he got caught. He didnt get caught mucking around like Fury did. Hes just not mobile enough. Hes big and steong and that got him out of trouble but a more experienced boxer would have seen him off rather than swinging wildly and missing everything.

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The stiffness came in rounds 3 and 4, round 1 and 2 Joshua was all over him like a rash and thought it was a forgone conclusion. He was every bit as lackadaisical as Fury was against Cunningham or the Latvian plasterer. The differences being that Whyte is probably better than both of them (yes on the whole Cunningham is more accomplished) and Joshua never hit the deck.

Do yourself a favour and watch the no commentary edit of the fight. It might enlighten you.

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You think Whyte would beat Cunningham?

I think a few years ago Cunningham would have win on points

not so sure now though

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Originally Posted by ross

Cant believe you are seriously using that comparison.

You know how it works, there would be hundreds of examples like this. Martin is a more cautious boxer. He can punch and is a southpaw so there is risk.

He does have a better win with Glazkov than anyone Joshua has faced regarldess of how the fight ended Martin was in control.

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I never said Martin wasn't a risk. Anybody that is unexposed could be potentially better than their record suggests. I've made this point numerous times over the years, including about Andre Ward going into the super six comp.

The comparison? On paper they have a common opponent - Love. They both fought him last year. AJ slaughtered him in mere minutes. Martin was a minute from needing 10 rounds to hear the judges verdict.

Does this mean AJ will beat Martin? No. "On paper" it highlights that AJ has a superior piece of form. That's all.

In my opinion AJ has fought a superior level of opposition to Martin overall. I don't rate Glazkov, he's a non-punching small heavyweight. I don't regard a win against someone that hits the deck, like they've been shot, without receiving a punch as meaning much.

Joshua may have a few more recognisable names on his record but the kind of tired old journeymen that wont hang around if someones putting it on them but will fiddle round if someone wants to box more.

Those wins dont mean alot. None of them bar Whyte have offered or wanted to offer anything.

OK but my point is about AJ-vs-Martin on paper.

Martin doesn't have any names on his record, it's littered with American club fighters that leave their jug of beer and half-eaten mega Philly cheese steak on standby whilst they get in the ring for a few minutes.

Who is Charles Martin again? I will be honest with you I never heard of him until recently. Its a shame that people are getting trinkets and calling themselves champions when they never beat the real champion in Tyson Fury. I guess if Joshua beats Martin and he will then it just sets up the next big heavyweight event. What a joke...

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Originally Posted by Fenster

OK but my point is about AJ-vs-Martin on paper.

Martin doesn't have any names on his record, it's littered with American club fighters that leave their jug of beer and half-eaten mega Philly cheese steak on standby whilst they get in the ring for a few minutes.

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Before we get too down on Martin's record, let's look at AJ's.
Leo - never fought since since. Payday , sell his unbeaten record and fuck off out of it.
Butlin - lost 14 out of his previous 16. No ambition
Kisicek - losing record of 5-13 since AJ. No ambition
Darch - won 3 lost 2 since AJ - ok.
Avila - fought once since. The other week. Obviously the money they paid him to fight AJ lasted a while now he needs to get back to work.
Legg - never fought since. Ambition?
Skelton - lost to McDermott & Price before AJ. Was 47 years old, final payday- no ambition
Airich - lost 5 out of 6 since AJ. His next fight is against a 2 fight novice . Did he cash out?
Bakhtov - 1 win v a journeyman and a loss for the EBU Title since AJ. So-so.
Sprott - clearly at the end of his career, no ambition
Gavern - lost 4 out of 5 before AJ. No ambition and there for the payday.
Love - we've heard about the comparison between his fights against AJ & Martin, but at the end of the day, no ambition to win.
Johnson - lost 6 of his previous 7 before AJ. Ambition?
Cornish - was unbeaten, lasted less than a round. Can't say too much about that.
Whyte - at last , someone who actually came with some ambition.
My point isn't to denigrate AJ because I think he will beat Martin. But I don't think we should be criticising Martin's record too much. It's a common fact that all the top HW's have got their chances without having done much beforehand. What did Wilder, Fury or Martin do that was anything special before they won their titles?

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Originally Posted by ross

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Originally Posted by Memphis

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Originally Posted by ross

Its how stiff he looked. Like a robot, thats how he got caught. He didnt get caught mucking around like Fury did. Hes just not mobile enough. Hes big and steong and that got him out of trouble but a more experienced boxer would have seen him off rather than swinging wildly and missing everything.

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The stiffness came in rounds 3 and 4, round 1 and 2 Joshua was all over him like a rash and thought it was a forgone conclusion. He was every bit as lackadaisical as Fury was against Cunningham or the Latvian plasterer. The differences being that Whyte is probably better than both of them (yes on the whole Cunningham is more accomplished) and Joshua never hit the deck.

Do yourself a favour and watch the no commentary edit of the fight. It might enlighten you.

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You think Whyte would beat Cunningham?

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I dont see why not. The fact that you havent come back saying fuck off you crazy cunt means you dont think it's a mental idea. You were quite taken on Whyte before he got battered by Joshua.

I think Whyte will go on to have a decent career if he doesnt chuck it away, Im not convinced by him mentally.

I think most good boxers are going to trouble Whyte. There arent that many at heavy.

He wasnt very fit for Joshua and he let himself down. His limitations skill wise wouldnt have been a himderance in that fight had he have been fitter.

Cunningham is world class. Most of his losses have been called robberies and Tarver has just found to have been cheating again.

The point is Whyte is not better than Cunningham. He has no where near the experience or skill that Cunningham has. He might be stronger.

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Originally Posted by ross

I think most good boxers are going to trouble Whyte. There arent that many at heavy.

He wasnt very fit for Joshua and he let himself down. His limitations skill wise wouldnt have been a himderance in that fight had he have been fitter.

Cunningham is world class. Most of his losses have been called robberies and Tarver has just found to have been cheating again.

The point is Whyte is not better than Cunningham. He has no where near the experience or skill that Cunningham has. He might be stronger.

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Same could be said for Tyson Fury? I wouldn't expect Whyte to outbox anyone World class. I would expect him to muscle his way past plenty of people though.

Again I've made this point many times. No credit is given to Anthony Joshua for Whyte's shape. Joshua literally punched the life out of him in round 1 and he never recovered. The fact that Whyte was able to take bomb after bomb and still be there suggests that he didn't have some chronic fitness issue.

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Fenster

OK but my point is about AJ-vs-Martin on paper.

Martin doesn't have any names on his record, it's littered with American club fighters that leave their jug of beer and half-eaten mega Philly cheese steak on standby whilst they get in the ring for a few minutes.

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Before we get too down on Martin's record, let's look at AJ's.
Leo - never fought since since. Payday , sell his unbeaten record and fuck off out of it.
Butlin - lost 14 out of his previous 16. No ambition
Kisicek - losing record of 5-13 since AJ. No ambition
Darch - won 3 lost 2 since AJ - ok.
Avila - fought once since. The other week. Obviously the money they paid him to fight AJ lasted a while now he needs to get back to work.
Legg - never fought since. Ambition?
Skelton - lost to McDermott & Price before AJ. Was 47 years old, final payday- no ambition
Airich - lost 5 out of 6 since AJ. His next fight is against a 2 fight novice . Did he cash out?
Bakhtov - 1 win v a journeyman and a loss for the EBU Title since AJ. So-so.
Sprott - clearly at the end of his career, no ambition
Gavern - lost 4 out of 5 before AJ. No ambition and there for the payday.
Love - we've heard about the comparison between his fights against AJ & Martin, but at the end of the day, no ambition to win.
Johnson - lost 6 of his previous 7 before AJ. Ambition?
Cornish - was unbeaten, lasted less than a round. Can't say too much about that.
Whyte - at last , someone who actually came with some ambition.
My point isn't to denigrate AJ because I think he will beat Martin. But I don't think we should be criticising Martin's record too much. It's a common fact that all the top HW's have got their chances without having done much beforehand. What did Wilder, Fury or Martin do that was anything special before they won their titles?

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I'm not slating Martin, I'm saying AJ's record is stronger. Why? Because it clearly is.

List Martin's last 15 opponents like you have AJ's? There's barely a fighter on his resume that hasn't been KO'd before and after he fought them. These are fighters that couldn't beat a solid British journeyman.

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Originally Posted by Fenster

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Fenster

OK but my point is about AJ-vs-Martin on paper.

Martin doesn't have any names on his record, it's littered with American club fighters that leave their jug of beer and half-eaten mega Philly cheese steak on standby whilst they get in the ring for a few minutes.

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Before we get too down on Martin's record, let's look at AJ's.
Leo - never fought since since. Payday , sell his unbeaten record and fuck off out of it.
Butlin - lost 14 out of his previous 16. No ambition
Kisicek - losing record of 5-13 since AJ. No ambition
Darch - won 3 lost 2 since AJ - ok.
Avila - fought once since. The other week. Obviously the money they paid him to fight AJ lasted a while now he needs to get back to work.
Legg - never fought since. Ambition?
Skelton - lost to McDermott & Price before AJ. Was 47 years old, final payday- no ambition
Airich - lost 5 out of 6 since AJ. His next fight is against a 2 fight novice . Did he cash out?
Bakhtov - 1 win v a journeyman and a loss for the EBU Title since AJ. So-so.
Sprott - clearly at the end of his career, no ambition
Gavern - lost 4 out of 5 before AJ. No ambition and there for the payday.
Love - we've heard about the comparison between his fights against AJ & Martin, but at the end of the day, no ambition to win.
Johnson - lost 6 of his previous 7 before AJ. Ambition?
Cornish - was unbeaten, lasted less than a round. Can't say too much about that.
Whyte - at last , someone who actually came with some ambition.
My point isn't to denigrate AJ because I think he will beat Martin. But I don't think we should be criticising Martin's record too much. It's a common fact that all the top HW's have got their chances without having done much beforehand. What did Wilder, Fury or Martin do that was anything special before they won their titles?

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I'm not slating Martin, I'm saying AJ's record is stronger. Why? Because it clearly is.

List Martin's last 15 opponents like you have AJ's? There's barely a fighter on his resume that hasn't been KO'd before and after he fought them. These are fighters that couldn't beat a solid British journeyman.

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Yeah, you make a fair point. In general , the problem is that all these top fighters have got padded records , and get put in with guys with no ambition . I suppose the only way we will find out is when they fight each other.
I have never known and era like this , where so many top fighters avoid each other and consequently become "World Champion" without having done fuck all!

Thats as much the sanctionng bodies fault.

Hearn said they had a deal in place with Glazkov to defend against Joshua before the Glazkov v Martin fight. How far back does it go?

Was anyone tapping up the IBF?

I'm not sure things are much different these days to how they've always been. One difference is the ready availability of fighters records, history and footage for fans.

I think in the past even serious fans would see a fighter with an impressive record like - 20-0 (18 KOs) and automatically think he must be tasty even though we had never seen him. These days it takes two minutes to find out whether or not the impressive numbers mean anything.

Peter Fury turned the date down for Hughie. Hearn said they could defend against him if they want it in the summer.

Imagine how big AJ-Tyson Fury would be after AJ has ironed Hughie?