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My bad :P
In my haste to post something I made an error....I was supposed to say how many great fighters have come back and added to their greatness after a period of over 3 years away in jail....
Very few now, Lyle....
And to say he preferred jail than to stay out as a free man....well, I think that is a churlish statement to make....
You should know better than that!! ::**
I never knew Foreman was in prison...I thought he was in the Job corps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
When did George Foreman go to PRISON? Don't think that ever happened. Also don't make me laugh, Tyson woulda Killed Moorer, Iced him, quickly. Teddy knew better than to have Moorer fight Mike. Bowe would have been Kayod too, woulda been a war, but Tyson probably woulda got him. Mercer would have been tuff as hell with that chin. Morrison would have fought his heart out, but would have been knocked unconscious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
i disagree bowe has better chin than tyson and more stamina i reckon bowe stops tyson late
Foreman took a long layoff, came back and added to his legacy. Yes the job corps he was in there. He did have his troubles with the law though.
Think about it miles you just lost your title, you've been getting robbed by your promoter for ages, you never train anymore, you have been divorced and lost a TON of money....wouldn't you like to "get away" from the situation??? Hell Tyson even said he liked prison
Yeah, Tyson was on a very bad streak and I get entirely what you are saying. But Im just trying to say that the Tyson that came back after such a long lay off, can not be mentioned in the same breath as the fighter that he once was. He wasnt even close IMO....He came back after Douglas and was quickly winning again and fighting regularly. admittedly the technique was ragged against Ruddock, but he got the job done and came through those slugfests. He didnt get hit and fall at the first sign of danger. He still had some heart at this stage in his career...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Its years later that it all imploded....
He could take a beating btu he wouldn't apply himself and he TRIED to end his boxing career vs Botha, Savarese and Holyfield
But I fail to make the comparison between that shell and the fighter that became the youngest heavyweight champ in boxing history....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
You still fail to draw the distinction between the Tyson that was pre and post jail. I said to you earlier, how many fighters come back off of 3 year+ breaks and enhance their legacy? There are very few. Ali was an exception.
The Tyson that faced each of those fighters was a shadow, a shadow that tried to defy it all in the first Holyfield fight but fell short. Post Holyfield 2 he had endured another 18 month away from the sport. Thats layoffs exceeding 5 years in his career. Now how many fighters come back from that and enhance their legacy? Of course Tyson tried to implode and it all came to the full final realization against Lewis.
Tyson was now pushing 40 and he was fighting once a year. The Williams and McBride fights though a shock to me at the time. On reflection those results have an obviousness about them...
Tyson at the top ended with a 3 year incarcaration.....
foreman hadnt fought since 1977 and comeback in 1987 and still done very well against young boys and won hw title from moorer. larry holmes had lay off in 1985 i think he fought once in fours years when he comeback he gave holyfield fits beat ray mercer and i think should of won decision against mccall quite few boxers can comeback from big lay offs
Good examples of fighters that have come back after huge lay offs :coolclick:Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
But I think those 2 fighters are exceptions to the rule....
cc back at ya mate
hey miles what about ray leonard hadnt fought since 1984 when he comeback in 1987 and what does he do win middleweight title from one of best even though some people think hagler got decision leonard still done well
Again another great example of fighters that do somehow manage to overcome such long layoffs. Leonard was a remarkable fighter IMO. That was a close fight, but I have no issues with the fight going either way to be honest. Leonard got the nod, but again still a remarkable comeback...Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Thing is that I think Foreman, Holmes and Leonard are all indeed great boxers...
With Tyson it just seems that though he worked his way back up to a certain level, it got to a point with Holyfield 2 that you knew he just didnt want in any more. The Tyson that lost against Holyfield first time out lacked the skills and qualities that the earlier edition of Tyson posessed in abundence. He really wasnt the same fighter post jail. He lost a lot without ever really feeling the need to regain it again, really.
As a Tyson fan it was a shame, but even though you have pointed out 3 great examples of exceptions to the rule, they really only do apply to only a very few. And they are greats themselves...
agreed
Another problem for Tyson is UNLIKE Ali and Foreman he never tried to adapt his style to his changing body...he still tried to just use the power and it caught up with him.
Ali didn't dance as much when he was older, he held more, and he was boring as hell but he got the job done
Foreman used the jab more he stood up, didn't try to fight on the inside and he used the right cross instead of the huge right hook.
Tyson stopped moving his head and stopped throwing punches in bunches...IMO he should have used his handspeed more to become more of a pressure fighter and a punch load fighter instead of a one punch KO artist
Agreed. But dont you agree that post jail Tyson was indeed a very different fighter to the pre jail fighter with the one abberation on the record?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
He was different but I think that the post jail Tyson was always lurking beneath the surface and it was guys like Cus, Rooney, Jacobs, and Cayton who kept him in line.
Tyson has said he got tired of being Mike Tyson...so I think he "self handicapped" in a way...if I lose I can blame something, the tatoo, I broke my back, I tried to break his arm, I bit his ear, etc....I think he was afraid to win, lose, or even try...he COULD have been better yes btu I still see Holyfield, Lewis, and Bowe beating him more times than not.
Tyson at his best would be a devil to handle for each of them....It took Holyfield along time to beat that rusty Tyson who was coming off a diet of cattle feed. Imagine what a pre jail Tyson would have done. Would have knocked Holy silly!!! As for Lewis??? He beat a very different breed of Tyson. 5 years of lay offs do take their toll. And Lewis thinks that is his crowning legacy??? He's a twit! Great fighter, but a twit for thinking that. If Rahman can KO Lewis, prime Tyson would murder him, hahahaha, Haasim Rahman!!! As for Bowe, well he was decent and big with a jab. But prime Tyson would have him outta there in 10.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
a prime Tyson's first loss came after a long hard fight, after knocking out his opponant and having the fight continue, a prime Lewis was taken out in 1 by McCall
It was prime Tyson but lets face it...the Tyson that fought Douglas was not ready at all...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
As for prime Lewis and an early ko...well, im not all that surprised...
tyson wouldnt have knocked holyfield silly this is what i dont like people always overrate tyson all the time
Yeah I reckon Holyfield just about had his number
Lewis too
And Bowe would of beat him
We'll never know though ;)
#1) The Tyson-Douglas fight wasn't THAT tough....Douglas blasted him for all but 1 round.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMorales
#2) It was round 2 when Lewis got caught by McCall...if you're going to pick on someone get it right. Also McCall at that point had already decked Tyson NUMEROUS times in sparring, it wasn't much of a fluke, Oliver still has decent power and he's fuckin 41 years old.
Lewis easy.
Said the reasons to many times before.
Plus I wouldnt call that a prime Lewis . In fact that was Lennox at his worst . He got revenge over Mcall anyway , proving it was a fluke .Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Many people bring in McCall and Douglas into this equation, but the reality is neither Lewis or Tyson took these fights as serious as they would have if they fought each other. This being said, Lewis would have gave up some earlier rounds, but would have figured out the one dimentional fighter in the end. Basically same result as their actual fight only 1 or 2 rounds longer.
Was prime Tyson one dimensional ???Quote:
Originally Posted by lb4lb
Just illustrates my point that everybody thinks of the Tyson he became and not the fighter he was.
just watched ruddock vs tyson fights recently big h never seen them before and really enjoyed them
No way would that ever happen but nice try lewis took 8 rounds to ko the old Tyson and people are sayin it would take him 7 to ko Prime mike tyson. tyson would destroy lewis in his prime hands down. By the way did any 1 here about McCall won last night in the 4th round not bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAME
only reason took him 8 rounds because lewis said himself he wanted to torture him a bit for what he said about his kids ;)
aint seen them for years myself mateQuote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
do u want me to send u it ??
Really good fights as far as I remember...Tyson was being hit more than usual, but otherwise dominated Ruddock. I think the 1st one was stopped a little prematurely though.Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG H
I always thought Bruno and Rudduck were closer rivals to Tyson than Holyfield and Lewis....I mean he was never in those fights, he had no chance at winning.
sent u it big h
Ive said to you before though Ice Cold, I dont really regard the post jail Tyson in the same esteem as the Tyson before the locked up years....Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
...doesn't matter to me the pre-jail Tyson never fought anyone good (closest were Bruno who hurt him bad, Tucker, and Green)
Tyson of any age of any year loses to Lewis and Holyfield
I just wanted to see Tyson-Bowe
and call me sadistic but Tyson-Rahman would have been decent too
razor ruddock vs tyson rematch was quite close to tyson won by 4 points just shame ruddock went down twice otherwise might of seen an upset but to be honest ruddock later in the fight took harder punches than the knockdown punches
Well Lewis didn't have any kids at the time so i dnt c y it bothered him and i read it was because lewis hit tyson so many times with the right hand he had to wait for the pain to numb untill he could use it with full power again. But i think the real reason is because he was worried incase he ran into a desperation haymaker from Tyson ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
he didnt why did tyson say he was going eat his children then ??