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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
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Had to check boxrec to see if he came in over, there are no weights listed for his fight against Branco, so it's possible it was that one, but all of his other fights he was within the limit. As for why he didn't move up sooner, you are not going to find this answer here. You need to ask his peeps why he did that. Try the Miguel Cotto fan board.
I've been a member there for ages...they won't know either. Maybe Rolando might, but the questions hypothetical anyway. I put it to you that he didn't move up because he simply wasn't ready to mix with the fighters that were hanging at 147 at the time. It's a lot easier to say 'there was no one left decent to fight at 140 so we made the best of it' than it is to say 'he's still learning and isn't ready for the big boys yet'...
I have no problem if the reason was he isn't ready yet, the guy was only 24 at the time you're talkin and only had
what 22 fights?
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After all of this on here, I will state the following:
Cotto destroys Hatton at 147, just my opinion, and I'm entitled to it.
Cotto beats Hatton at 140, if it's not in Manchester and provided Cotto could make weight.
Both guys destroy Vivian Harris at 140 or 147.
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The reason I bring up the Manchester thing is this. Fighters there are allowed to get away with things, that aren't allowed in other countries. Hatton has had only experience fighting there (Collazo fight, the exception of course), his style is based on being able to make those exceptions. When those things are taken away, he doesn't have the advatages anymore. It makes it more difficult for him to apply pressure when he can't hold and hit as much.
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Originally Posted by Steelie
Surely you're not that naive? ;D
Prove me wrong then............show me a fight where Hatton doesn't hold and hit and I'll cecede the point.
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This is not a knock on the Manchester boxing people, all places have hometown judges, all places let some things pass. So I guess since I can't answer your question about Cotto not stepping up to 147 earlier, I will simply pose a question to you. Why didn't Hatton leave the UK sooner?
Simple...for the same reason Miguel fights wherever he can draw the biggest crowd - $$$$
[/quote]
But after beating Tszyu, doesn't that give him a bigger opportunity on the world market? Or do you pass on that opportunity and keep it at home?
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Miguels biggest draw would be MSG, not Atlantic City, or he could even play the Calderon card and just fight in PR, where it would be a sure-fire sellout and crazy PPV buys, but no, he flys over to New Jersey or wherever the hell the fight is not like Ricky who has had about 80% of his fights in Manchester
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
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Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Ill tell you what if this fight was such a big issue then why didnt it happen straight after the tszyu fight? both were champs undeafted and hungry. Ill tell you this Hatton has made the wrong choice going back down to 140 imo! he should be looking for the bigger fights and keeping up with the fighters he should be fighting. Im not 100% sure about this one but have any of these 2 fighters called each other out? Imo cottos record wont stay undeafted if he goes for Margarito ;D
I disagree, Hatton should stay at 140, there are very tempting opportunities at 147 agreed, but I'm not so sure his body can handle being in fighting shape at 147 and still be effective. Hatton should fight where he is comfortable.
If he had an opportunity to properly train for 147 and grow into it, that fight may change my opinion, but the only thing
I have to go on at 147 is Collazo, and I agree that wasn't even close to being the same Ricky from 140.
Thing is Greg he only had 6 weeks so it would be tough. If you did something first time you cant always say its not always going to be perfect. Hatton fought at 140 all his life so i change would be different and until hatton can cope with this change there is little point in him fighting.
Imo i would prefer hatton to fight (and maybe lose) at 147 against the big boys (cotto, mayweather etc) but atleast he is showing us he is trying and he can go out swinging. I would prefer to see this to him staying at 140 and in MOST! cases winning safely. A fight with cotto at 147 would secure him a fat wage! why doesnt he go for him? he has a chance of course he does. Hatton imo should haven taken his mandatory against whatever his name was orkal is it? and then seen how it had gone after that. Luiz was a tough fight, until we know more about him and see him in another big name fight we cant fully judge him. But hatton still won the fight against somebody who had been fighting at 147 a lot longer than himself. Hatton was the challenger as well and i think some of you forget this. At the end of the day hatton won the fight and what a dumb thing he has done going back to 140 :(
very well argued :appl: :coolclick:
cc back miles nearly on 100 now! but hatton really does need to think before he could make the biggest mistake of his life...with legacy etc!
Doing good, mate!! ;)
I am a Hatton fan, but the whole going up to 147 and then having a tricky fight and going immediately back down again....well, it reeks of conservatism. As you say why not try out against the mandatory with more time to fill into the weight? But, no. Straight back down to 140 to fight....who exactly??? ;D
Yer we all know he SHOULD! beat Urango but what is it leading onto.....a beefed up castillo/corraless.....it dont mean shit imo.......fighting cotto/mayweather does....even if he does lose im sure he wont get the shit beaten out of him. :( he really needs to think wisely. If we see a destruction of Urango I feel hatton should make his way up asap and slot him self in there.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
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Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
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Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
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Originally Posted by killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Ill tell you what if this fight was such a big issue then why didnt it happen straight after the tszyu fight? both were champs undeafted and hungry. Ill tell you this Hatton has made the wrong choice going back down to 140 imo! he should be looking for the bigger fights and keeping up with the fighters he should be fighting. Im not 100% sure about this one but have any of these 2 fighters called each other out? Imo cottos record wont stay undeafted if he goes for Margarito ;D
I disagree, Hatton should stay at 140, there are very tempting opportunities at 147 agreed, but I'm not so sure his body can handle being in fighting shape at 147 and still be effective. Hatton should fight where he is comfortable.
If he had an opportunity to properly train for 147 and grow into it, that fight may change my opinion, but the only thing
I have to go on at 147 is Collazo, and I agree that wasn't even close to being the same Ricky from 140.
Thing is Greg he only had 6 weeks so it would be tough. If you did something first time you cant always say its not always going to be perfect. Hatton fought at 140 all his life so i change would be different and until hatton can cope with this change there is little point in him fighting.
Imo i would prefer hatton to fight (and maybe lose) at 147 against the big boys (cotto, mayweather etc) but atleast he is showing us he is trying and he can go out swinging. I would prefer to see this to him staying at 140 and in MOST! cases winning safely. A fight with cotto at 147 would secure him a fat wage! why doesnt he go for him? he has a chance of course he does. Hatton imo should haven taken his mandatory against whatever his name was orkal is it? and then seen how it had gone after that. Luiz was a tough fight, until we know more about him and see him in another big name fight we cant fully judge him. But hatton still won the fight against somebody who had been fighting at 147 a lot longer than himself. Hatton was the challenger as well and i think some of you forget this. At the end of the day hatton won the fight and what a dumb thing he has done going back to 140 :(
very well argued :appl: :coolclick:
cc back miles nearly on 100 now! but hatton really does need to think before he could make the biggest mistake of his life...with legacy etc!
Doing good, mate!! ;)
I am a Hatton fan, but the whole going up to 147 and then having a tricky fight and going immediately back down again....well, it reeks of conservatism. As you say why not try out against the mandatory with more time to fill into the weight? But, no. Straight back down to 140 to fight....who exactly??? ;D
Yer we all know he SHOULD! beat Urango but what is it leading onto.....a beefed up castillo/corraless.....it dont mean S*** imo.......fighting cotto/mayweather does....even if he does lose im sure he wont get the S*** beaten out of him. :( he really needs to think wisely. If we see a destruction of Urango I feel hatton should make his way up asap and slot him self in there.
I agree. Hatton is never going going to get a PBF fight. He can beat these beefed up smaller guys in his sleep. Risks are what earn respect and Hatton is now taking few risks! And isnt that one of the reasons he left the Warren camp for?
Its bizarre that you would win a belt at a higher weight and then just move down!
Im a Hatton fan but that really is what fuels these flames. Hatton has lost a lot of respect! Its as simple as...
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Prove me wrong then............sho w me a fight where Hatton doesn't hold and hit and I'll cecede the point.
Tackie.
But, with respect, I'm guessing you've not see that many of Ricks fights otherwise you'd know that Rick isn't a dirty fighter at all.
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Miguels biggest draw would be MSG, not Atlantic City, or he could even play the Calderon card and just fight in PR, where it would be a sure-fire sellout and crazy PPV buys, but no, he flys over to New Jersey or wherever the hell the fight is not like Ricky who has had about 80% of his fights in Manchester
errrrm...Miguel has fought at MSG and in his native Puerto Rico. He's gone to Atlantic city because it's not far from NY (with it's PR population) and there's a shitload of gatti fans looking for a new hero.
So back to my original statement; he's fighting where the money is (not because he's prepared to travel).
Ricky, equally has fought in the UK because he's a massive draw.
It's not that hard to understand.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
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Prove me wrong then............sho w me a fight where Hatton doesn't hold and hit and I'll cecede the point.
Tackie.
But, with respect, I'm guessing you've not see that many of Ricks fights otherwise you'd know that Rick isn't a dirty fighter at all.
You're kidding right? You're right I've only seen the fights on Hatton's website and the Collazo fight.
Are you honestly going to say Ricky did not hold and hit Tackie? Watch again.
http://www.rickyhitmanhatton.com/vid...on-tackie.html
everyone look at this and tell me Ricky didn't hold and hit.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
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Originally Posted by miles
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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
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Originally Posted by miles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
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Originally Posted by killersheep
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Originally Posted by Tam Seddon
Ill tell you what if this fight was such a big issue then why didnt it happen straight after the tszyu fight? both were champs undeafted and hungry. Ill tell you this Hatton has made the wrong choice going back down to 140 imo! he should be looking for the bigger fights and keeping up with the fighters he should be fighting. Im not 100% sure about this one but have any of these 2 fighters called each other out? Imo cottos record wont stay undeafted if he goes for Margarito ;D
I disagree, Hatton should stay at 140, there are very tempting opportunities at 147 agreed, but I'm not so sure his body can handle being in fighting shape at 147 and still be effective. Hatton should fight where he is comfortable.
If he had an opportunity to properly train for 147 and grow into it, that fight may change my opinion, but the only thing
I have to go on at 147 is Collazo, and I agree that wasn't even close to being the same Ricky from 140.
Thing is Greg he only had 6 weeks so it would be tough. If you did something first time you cant always say its not always going to be perfect. Hatton fought at 140 all his life so i change would be different and until hatton can cope with this change there is little point in him fighting.
Imo i would prefer hatton to fight (and maybe lose) at 147 against the big boys (cotto, mayweather etc) but atleast he is showing us he is trying and he can go out swinging. I would prefer to see this to him staying at 140 and in MOST! cases winning safely. A fight with cotto at 147 would secure him a fat wage! why doesnt he go for him? he has a chance of course he does. Hatton imo should haven taken his mandatory against whatever his name was orkal is it? and then seen how it had gone after that. Luiz was a tough fight, until we know more about him and see him in another big name fight we cant fully judge him. But hatton still won the fight against somebody who had been fighting at 147 a lot longer than himself. Hatton was the challenger as well and i think some of you forget this. At the end of the day hatton won the fight and what a dumb thing he has done going back to 140 :(
very well argued :appl: :coolclick:
cc back miles nearly on 100 now! but hatton really does need to think before he could make the biggest mistake of his life...with legacy etc!
Doing good, mate!! ;)
I am a Hatton fan, but the whole going up to 147 and then having a tricky fight and going immediately back down again....well, it reeks of conservatism. As you say why not try out against the mandatory with more time to fill into the weight? But, no. Straight back down to 140 to fight....who exactly??? ;D
Yer we all know he SHOULD! beat Urango but what is it leading onto.....a beefed up castillo/corraless.....it dont mean S*** imo.......fighting cotto/mayweather does....even if he does lose im sure he wont get the S*** beaten out of him. :( he really needs to think wisely. If we see a destruction of Urango I feel hatton should make his way up asap and slot him self in there.
I agree. Hatton is never going going to get a PBF fight. He can beat these beefed up smaller guys in his sleep. Risks are what earn respect and Hatton is now taking few risks! And isnt that one of the reasons he left the Warren camp for?
Its bizarre that you would win a belt at a higher weight and then just move down!
Im a Hatton fan but that really is what fuels these flames. Hatton has lost a lot of respect! Its as simple as...
The people can talk all they want about him being better at 140...and cotto hitting his best at 147.....but without hatton taking his risks that would draw people like myself to watch him. A fight at 140 and im not even sure i would want to see. i would look the next day hatton wins on boxrec.but fuck me a fight at 147 against cotto i would be counting the days from my calander just waiting to watch this super fight. A SUPER FIGHT! it would be. hatton can tell us all the shit he wants but we all no that he wants to keep his record untouched. It wouldnt prove much at all. But another SUPER FIGHT! would. say if hatton lost to tszyu (at the time i thought he would) i remember watching the weigh in and feeling really happy/nervous that he was there but when i watched the fight i just felt like he was the man...i want to feel that again...i cant see hatton getting bummed by cotto at all. he would go there and do what he needs to do and go for the decision. Cotto aint miles ahead of hatton like the majority of people are pointing him out to be. Torres...who the fuck was he before that fight? i hadnt even heard of him. He pushed him to the limits like Collazo did to hatton and it was good to see. Cotto did well at 147, but hatton was pushed and im sure collazo would have fought hard as well against him. I couldnt see him cotto losing against luiz but remember styles make fights. hatton would have to be on the top to take on cotto and at the end of the day you can talk about hatton is his best at 140 but its only 7 pounds i know the punches will be harder and people can perform better etc but it also on motivation,homework and how the fight was approcched. many other aspects would have to be taken other than the 7 pound difference and this is where collazo imo showed he was lethal. we will have to see what lies for hatton but i want to see Hatton-Cotto at 147 soon!
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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You're kidding right? You're right I've only seen the fights on Hatton's website and the Collazo fight.
Are you honestly going to say Ricky did not hold and hit Tackie? Watch again.
Great little fight that 8)
Tackie was probably Rickys best 'boxing' performance so I picked it from memory. Yeah, he's holding in some of the clips but getting tangled up and fighting on the inside is a side effect of never taking a step back...and lets be honest, he's not the only one is he? ;)
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
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You're kidding right? You're right I've only seen the fights on Hatton's website and the Collazo fight.
Are you honestly going to say Ricky did not hold and hit Tackie? Watch again.
Great little fight that 8)
Tackie was probably Rickys best 'boxing' performance so I picked it from memory. Yeah, he's holding in some of the clips but getting tangled up and fighting on the inside is a side effect of never taking a step back...and lets be honest, he's not the only one is he? ;)
Ok so, you can't think of a fight where Ricky didn't hold and hit, is that correct?
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by killersheep
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Originally Posted by Steelie
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Prove me wrong then............sho w me a fight where Hatton doesn't hold and hit and I'll cecede the point.
Tackie.
But, with respect, I'm guessing you've not see that many of Ricks fights otherwise you'd know that Rick isn't a dirty fighter at all.
You're kidding right? You're right I've only seen the fights on Hatton's website and the Collazo fight.
Are you honestly going to say Ricky did not hold and hit Tackie? Watch again.
http://www.rickyhitmanhatton.com/vid...on-tackie.html
everyone look at this and tell me Ricky didn't hold and hit.
Ricky didnt hold and hit.
Im far from joking.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by The Grinch
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Originally Posted by killersheep
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Originally Posted by Steelie
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Prove me wrong then............sho w me a fight where Hatton doesn't hold and hit and I'll cecede the point.
Tackie.
But, with respect, I'm guessing you've not see that many of Ricks fights otherwise you'd know that Rick isn't a dirty fighter at all.
You're kidding right? You're right I've only seen the fights on Hatton's website and the Collazo fight.
Are you honestly going to say Ricky did not hold and hit Tackie? Watch again.
http://www.rickyhitmanhatton.com/vid...on-tackie.html
everyone look at this and tell me Ricky didn't hold and hit.
Ricky didnt hold and hit.
Im far from joking.
So having someone in a headlock and punching their back is not holding and hitting?
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
CC to killersheep. You are completely owning this debate. O0
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Sorry, i must of mis read your post Killer...
Did you mean he was "Holding and hitting" or did you say he "Held and Hit... Right there! That one obscure inccident"?
Which did you mean?
But anyways, :coolclick: for being the undisputed champ of this debate ;)
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by shza
CC to killersheep. You are completely owning this debate. O0
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Originally Posted by The Grinch
Sorry, i must of mis read your post Killer...
Did you mean he was "Holding and hitting" or did you say he "Held and Hit... Right there! That one obscure inccident"?
Which did you mean?
But anyways, :coolclick: for being the undisputed champ of this debate ;)
CC back guys, I'm not trying to knock anyone's dick in the dirt here, and I hope no one harbors any ill feelings.
I am just trying to be as objective as possible (although I realize being human it is an exercise in futulity).
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by shza
CC to killersheep. You are completely owning this debate. O0
No one is really owning the debate to be honest mate ;)
Just two totally different angles on the subject.
Good debate people.
Lets just hope that they can sort this out in the ring one day soon.
Also Collazo is a much tougher opponent than Quintana. ;)
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smashup
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Originally Posted by shza
CC to killersheep. You are completely owning this debate. O0
No one is really owning the debate to be honest mate ;)
Just two totally different angles on the subject.
Good debate people.
Lets just hope that they can sort this out in the ring one day soon.
Also Collazo is a much tougher opponent than Quintana. ;)
CC bruv, I am enjoying this one, could go on forever, and honestly by the time actually does take place (if ever) so many things could change I might change my opinion completely. Look at this
Hatton vs. Urango @ 140
Cotto vs. Urkal @ 147
Those have to happen, then
Hatton vs. Castillo @ 140
Cotto vs. Margarito @147 (Margarito already backed out from Williams because of injury and is vacating)
And then finally a year from now
Hatton vs. Cotto @ 147 Hopefully in like Africa or Antarctica or somewhere else neutral.
So many variables.
And on top of that Quintana whips Collazo any day of the week :P
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by killersheep
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Originally Posted by Steelie
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You're kidding right? You're right I've only seen the fights on Hatton's website and the Collazo fight.
Are you honestly going to say Ricky did not hold and hit Tackie? Watch again.
Great little fight that 8)
Tackie was probably Rickys best 'boxing' performance so I picked it from memory. Yeah, he's holding in some of the clips but getting tangled up and fighting on the inside is a side effect of never taking a step back...and lets be honest, he's not the only one is he? ;)
Ok so, you can't think of a fight where Ricky didn't hold and hit, is that correct?
You've seen clips of Ricks fights so how can you possibly know wether or not he does in every fight? ;D
I could watch them again just to prove the point but I doubt your or I are about to sit through all the fights just to get bragging rights ;D
Anyway, I'm illustrating that Miguel beating Quintana proves nothing about Miguels ability to hang at 147 or his ability to beat Hatton at either weight. Beating Quintana tells us one thing...that he can beat Quintana. That's it.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
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Originally Posted by killersheep
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Originally Posted by Steelie
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You're kidding right? You're right I've only seen the fights on Hatton's website and the Collazo fight.
Are you honestly going to say Ricky did not hold and hit Tackie? Watch again.
Great little fight that 8)
Tackie was probably Rickys best 'boxing' performance so I picked it from memory. Yeah, he's holding in some of the clips but getting tangled up and fighting on the inside is a side effect of never taking a step back...and lets be honest, he's not the only one is he? ;)
Ok so, you can't think of a fight where Ricky didn't hold and hit, is that correct?
You've seen
clips of Ricks fights so how can you
possibly know wether or not he does in every fight? ;D
I could watch them again just to prove the point but I doubt your or I are about to sit through all the fights just to get bragging rights ;D
Anyway, I'm illustrating that Miguel beating Quintana proves nothing about Miguels ability to hang at 147 or his ability to beat Hatton at either weight. Beating Quintana tells us one thing...that he can beat Quintana. That's it.
Dead on! Transitivity never holds for boxing, so comparing resumes is pointless. :coolclick:
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
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Originally Posted by Steelie
Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelie
Quote:
You're kidding right? You're right I've only seen the fights on Hatton's website and the Collazo fight.
Are you honestly going to say Ricky did not hold and hit Tackie? Watch again.
Great little fight that 8)
Tackie was probably Rickys best 'boxing' performance so I picked it from memory. Yeah, he's holding in some of the clips but getting tangled up and fighting on the inside is a side effect of never taking a step back...and lets be honest, he's not the only one is he? ;)
Ok so, you can't think of a fight where Ricky didn't hold and hit, is that correct?
You've seen
clips of Ricks fights so how can you
possibly know wether or not he does in every fight? ;D
I could watch them again just to prove the point but I doubt your or I are about to sit through all the fights just to get bragging rights ;D
Anyway, I'm illustrating that Miguel beating Quintana proves nothing about Miguels ability to hang at 147 or his ability to beat Hatton at either weight. Beating Quintana tells us one thing...that he can beat Quintana. That's it.
I've only seen clips from like 8 or 9 of Ricky's fights, but I have yet to see one where he doesn't hold and hit, until someone shows me one that shows me the contrary, I won't change my mind.
And Miguel's ability to destroy a natural WW shows more than he can beat Quintana, it shows his skill set and power has not diminished on the move up. Hatton's move-up was not as impressive and until you see him fight someone else at WW (with adequate preperation of-course) I don't see how you could pick Hatton over Cotto at this point.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
It's funny how fast things change. Last week there were a few who though that Cotto was very good and now, bang, everyone thinks he's p4p material.
Is there a chance that Hatton is taking a bit more time before moving up. A Castillo fight would be quite lucritive and gain him respect. That would be next summer. Then, with nobody else left in the division he would move up, maybe a december fight next year at 147 with a big one in summer 2008. Cotto or Mayweather would then be the only fighters who would improve his career status.
So, to summarise:
January 07 Urango, easy fight, or should be :-\.
July 07 Castillo.
Dec/Jan 07/08 a good 147lb fighter.
Summer 08 Career definer followed by rematch.
2009 Retired aged 30 45-0/44-1
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
I've only seen clips from like 8 or 9 of Ricky's fights, but I have yet to see one where he doesn't hold and hit, until someone shows me one that shows me the contrary, I won't change my mind.
And Miguel's ability to destroy a natural WW shows more than he can beat Quintana, it shows his skill set and power has not diminished on the move up. Hatton's move-up was not as impressive and until you see him fight someone else at WW (with adequate preperation of-course) I don't see how you could pick Hatton over Cotto at this point.
I don't see how you can pick Cotto over Hatton after only seeing a few clips of Ricky :headscratch:
Your opinion is completely subjective then as your basing purely on seeing one fighter.
You won't change your mind cos ignorance is bliss. That's not a slight you understand but it's difficult to argue a point regarding these two now knowing that you actually don't know any different.
Lets stick to Cotto cos for me the Hatton debate ends here.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hackey100
It's funny how fast things change. Last week there were a few who though that Cotto was very good and now, bang, everyone thinks he's p4p material.
Is there a chance that Hatton is taking a bit more time before moving up. A Castillo fight would be quite lucritive and gain him respect. That would be next summer. Then, with nobody else left in the division he would move up, maybe a december fight next year at 147 with a big one in summer 2008. Cotto or Mayweather would then be the only fighters who would improve his career status.
So, to summarise:
January 07 Urango, easy fight, or should be :-\.
July 07 Castillo.
Dec/Jan 07/08 a good 147lb fighter.
Summer 08 Career definer followed by rematch.
2009 Retired aged 30 45-0/44-1
You're leaving out the part where he loses to Castillo.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelie
Quote:
I've only seen clips from like 8 or 9 of Ricky's fights, but I have yet to see one where he doesn't hold and hit, until someone shows me one that shows me the contrary, I won't change my mind.
And Miguel's ability to destroy a natural WW shows more than he can beat Quintana, it shows his skill set and power has not diminished on the move up. Hatton's move-up was not as impressive and until you see him fight someone else at WW (with adequate preperation of-course) I don't see how you could pick Hatton over Cotto at this point.
I don't see how you can pick Cotto over Hatton after only seeing
a few clips of Ricky :headscratch:
Your opinion is completely subjective then as your basing purely on seeing one fighter.
You won't change your mind cos ignorance is bliss. That's not a slight you understand but it's difficult to argue a point regarding these two now knowing that you actually don't know any different.
Lets stick to Cotto cos for me the Hatton debate ends here.
Ok here is my experience watching Hatton so you can Judge for yourself how much I know.
Hatton vs. Collazo full fight 3 times - then clips (this is the only fight I can judge Ricky on at 147 as it is his only fight at 147)
Hatton vs. Tszyu full fight at least 20 times as well as clips
Clips of Hatton vs. Tackie
Clips of Hatton vs. Smith
Clips of Hatton vs. Krivolapov
Clips of Hatton vs. Magee
Clips of Hatton vs. Maussa
Full fight of Hatton vs. Thompson
Various Highlight vids of Hatton
let me know where Ricky looks like a different fighter than in these fights and I'll watch, it may even change my opinion. But when a fighter has one style, I don't see how much you have to see of him to understand what he's capable of.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Well, I have a depth of understanding on Cotto that is based on more than a few clips and highlight reels. I've seen him develop and watched his career with interest. I can base my opinion on the fact that I know both fighters. My opinion is still subjective of course but at least there's more substance than 'Cotto wins cos I said so and won't change my mind'.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelie
Well, I have a depth of understanding on Cotto that is based on more than a few clips and highlight reels. I've seen him develop and watched his career with interest. I can base my opinion on the fact that I know both fighters. My opinion is still subjective of course but at least there's more substance than 'Cotto wins cos I said so and won't change my mind'.
Well then as I have been saying show me something that will change my mind.
the title of this thread is Hatton v Cotto@147- what do you think.
and seeing that each fighter only has one fight at 147, well. There's my opinion.
You still have not shown me anything to think differently. So instead of saying I
don't know anything, why don't you post some links that may convince me otherwise.
I am not unreasonable, but you have not shown me anything.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
I'm not going through all Rickys fights just to prove the point. The onus isn't on me to change your mind. ;D
You gave your opinion and we've established that it's based on one fight and some highlight reels.
I'm done here I think ;)
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelie
I'm not going through all Rickys fights just to prove the point. The onus isn't on me to change your mind. ;D
You gave your opinion and we've established that it's based on one fight and some highlight reels.
I'm done here I think ;)
Two fights by my count Tszyu (Hatton's Signature fight) and Collazo (His only fight at the weight class we're talking about). Isn't part of a debate to educate the other side to see your point of view? You haven't done that at all.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
This debate has been brilliant but has gone south ever so slightly. We have compared resumes,Cotto's is better,Cotto didn't run back to 147 and my thread title was who would win at 147,and most have said Cotto.Like I sad,the bigger fights for Hatton are at 147,the threats are at 147 and the legacy is at 147.
Hatton IS a good fighter but I think he s quite 1 dimensional(although I hear he used to box more when he was youuger),had 1 REALLY BIG fight but has not followed it brilliantly and ran off from 147 when Collazo gave him a super tough fight and even though Ricky promised a rematch twice,we are never going to see one(or most likely never) so please,excuse for not being totally sold on him..
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelie
Quote:
I've only seen clips from like 8 or 9 of Ricky's fights, but I have yet to see one where he doesn't hold and hit, until someone shows me one that shows me the contrary, I won't change my mind.
And Miguel's ability to destroy a natural WW shows more than he can beat Quintana, it shows his skill set and power has not diminished on the move up. Hatton's move-up was not as impressive and until you see him fight someone else at WW (with adequate preperation of-course) I don't see how you could pick Hatton over Cotto at this point.
I don't see how you can pick Cotto over Hatton after only seeing
a few clips of Ricky :headscratch:
Your opinion is completely subjective then as your basing purely on seeing one fighter.
You won't change your mind cos ignorance is bliss. That's not a slight you understand but it's difficult to argue a point regarding these two now knowing that you actually don't know any different.
Lets stick to Cotto cos for me the Hatton debate ends here.
I have seen enough of both fighters to make my own personal educated conclusion based on what I have witnessed from both fighters.
Folks are not even debating the issue with clarity or respect to the thread.
Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
The following fights I own and have watched more than once each. I like both of these fighters very very much.
Ricky Hatton
http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=9314
Hatton vs Peacock
Hatton vs Paul
Hatton vs Winters
Hatton vs Garces
Hatton vs Figuereos
Hatton vs Quiros
Hatton vs Lauri
Hatton vs Thanxton
Hatton vs Pep
Hatton vs Roland
Hatton vs Bailey
Hatton vs Pendledton
Hatton vs Rowsel
Hatton vs Magee
Hatton vs Smith
Hatton vs Hutchenson
Hatton vs Philips
Hatton vs Rios
Hatton vs Tackie
Hatton vs Vilches
Hatton vs Stewart
Hatton vs Olivera
Hatton vs Tszyu
Hatton vs Maussa
Hatton vs Collazo
Miguel Angel Cotto
http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=33535
Cotto vs RICARDO VIVELLA
Cotto vs MOHAMED ABDULAEV
Cotto vs JASON DOUCET
Cotto vs JACOB GODINEZ
COTTO VS RUDOLFO LUNSFORD
COTTO VS ARTURO RODRIGUEZ
COTTO VS JOSHUA SMITH
Cotto vs SAMMY SPARKMAN
COTTO VS JOHN BROWN
Cotto vs UBALDO HERNANDEZ
Cotto vs CESAR BAZAN
Cotto vs JOEL PEREZ
Cotto vs ROCKY MARTINEZ
Cotto vs DEMETRIO CEBALLOS
Cotto vs CARLOS MAUSSA
Cotto vs VICTORIANO SOSA
Cotto vs LOVEMORE N'DOU
Cotto vs KELSON PINTO
Cotto vs DEMARCUS CORLEY
Cotto vs MOHAMMAD ABDULAEV
Cotto vs RICARDO TORRES
Cotto vs RANDALL BAILEY
COTTO VS GIANLUCA BRANCO
Cotto vs Malignaggi
Cotto vs Quintana
Both Miguel Cotto and Ricky Hatton have tomatoes in their first ten matches. That is the way the game begins.
Both fighters have decent resumes.
Both fighters have taken out fighters which Floyd Mayweather could not.
Side Note:
Floyd Mayweather later went around beating fighters that Kostya Tszyu beat down.
My honest assessment is that the early Cotto even though he would be less experienced at the time could give Ricky a hell of a fight.
I am talking about the Cotto of 2004 Light Welterweight.
The Cotto of 2006 Light Welterweight (drained and struggling to make weight) would get sparked by Ricky. (sorry cotto) :-[ I still would not count my boy out because of that punchers chance.
But this is about Cotto vs Hatton @ Welter Weight 147.
Cotto can hack it at 147. he proved that last week. Ricky made a conscience decision dropping back down to 140 and by doing so, tells the world especially himself that he is not the same Ricky Hatton at 147 that he is @ 140. and this speaks volume. In closing Ricky can not hack it at 147 and thus gets beat down by Cotto in the Welter Weight Division. How can I not come up with any other conclusion based on both fighters debut performances. Until Ricky comes back to 147 and shows something more than he did against Collazo, I have to rest my case.
Ruling goes to Cotto by KO over Ricky Hatton @ 147.
Case closed and court is dismissed.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny_G
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelie
Quote:
I've only seen clips from like 8 or 9 of Ricky's fights, but I have yet to see one where he doesn't hold and hit, until someone shows me one that shows me the contrary, I won't change my mind.
And Miguel's ability to destroy a natural WW shows more than he can beat Quintana, it shows his skill set and power has not diminished on the move up. Hatton's move-up was not as impressive and until you see him fight someone else at WW (with adequate preperation of-course) I don't see how you could pick Hatton over Cotto at this point.
I don't see how you can pick Cotto over Hatton after only seeing
a few clips of Ricky :headscratch:
Your opinion is completely subjective then as your basing purely on seeing one fighter.
You won't change your mind cos ignorance is bliss. That's not a slight you understand but it's difficult to argue a point regarding these two now knowing that you actually don't know any different.
Lets stick to Cotto cos for me the Hatton debate ends here.
I have seen enough of both fighters to make my own personal educated conclusion based on what I have witnessed from both fighters.
Folks are not even debating the issue with clarity or respect to the thread.
Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
The following fights I own and have watched more than once each. I like both of these fighters very very much.
Ricky Hatton
http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=9314
Hatton vs Peacock
Hatton vs Paul
Hatton vs Winters
Hatton vs Garces
Hatton vs Figuereos
Hatton vs Quiros
Hatton vs Lauri
Hatton vs Thanxton
Hatton vs Pep
Hatton vs Roland
Hatton vs Bailey
Hatton vs Pendledton
Hatton vs Rowsel
Hatton vs Magee
Hatton vs Smith
Hatton vs Hutchenson
Hatton vs Philips
Hatton vs Rios
Hatton vs Tackie
Hatton vs Vilches
Hatton vs Stewart
Hatton vs Olivera
Hatton vs Tszyu
Hatton vs Maussa
Hatton vs Collazo
Miguel Angel Cotto
http://boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=33535
Cotto vs RICARDO VIVELLA
Cotto vs MOHAMED ABDULAEV
Cotto vs JASON DOUCET
Cotto vs JACOB GODINEZ
COTTO VS RUDOLFO LUNSFORD
COTTO VS ARTURO RODRIGUEZ
COTTO VS JOSHUA SMITH
Cotto vs SAMMY SPARKMAN
COTTO VS JOHN BROWN
Cotto vs UBALDO HERNANDEZ
Cotto vs CESAR BAZAN
Cotto vs JOEL PEREZ
Cotto vs ROCKY MARTINEZ
Cotto vs DEMETRIO CEBALLOS
Cotto vs CARLOS MAUSSA
Cotto vs VICTORIANO SOSA
Cotto vs LOVEMORE N'DOU
Cotto vs KELSON PINTO
Cotto vs DEMARCUS CORLEY
Cotto vs MOHAMMAD ABDULAEV
Cotto vs RICARDO TORRES
Cotto vs RANDALL BAILEY
COTTO VS GIANLUCA BRANCO
Cotto vs Malignaggi
Cotto vs Quintana
Both Miguel Cotto and Ricky Hatton have tomatoes in their first ten matches. That is the way the game begins.
Both fighters have decent resumes.
Both fighters have taken out fighters which Floyd Mayweather could not.
Side Note:
Floyd Mayweather later went around beating fighters that Kostya Tszyu beat down.
My honest assessment is that the early Cotto even though he would be less experienced at the time could give Ricky a hell of a fight.
I am talking about the Cotto of 2004 Light Welterweight.
The Cotto of 2006 Light Welterweight (drained and struggling to make weight) would get sparked by Ricky. (sorry cotto) :-[ I still would not count my boy out because of that punchers chance.
But this is about Cotto vs Hatton @ Welter Weight 147.
Cotto can hack it at 147. he proved that last week. Ricky made a conscience decision dropping back down to 140 and by doing so, tells the world especially himself that he is not the same Ricky Hatton at 147 that he is @ 140. and this speaks volume. In closing Ricky can not hack it at 147 and thus gets beat down by Cotto in the Welter Weight Division. How can I not come up with any other conclusion based on both fighters debut performances. Until Ricky comes back to 147 and shows something more than he did against Collazo, I have to rest my case.
Ruling goes to Cotto by KO over Ricky Hatton @ 147.
Case closed and court is dismissed.
I agree with your conclusion.
Side Note:
Mayweather W 12 Cotto
Mayweather TKO 6 Hatton
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Mayweather would not STOP Hatton at ANY weight.
You saw how he fought against Baldi... Those tactics could never warrant a stoppage, especially if Hatton has a much higher work rate than Bladi.
Nice try though... You antagonising lil' fuk face ;D
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grinch
Mayweather would not STOP Hatton at ANY weight.
You saw how he fought against Baldi... Those tactics could never warrant a stoppage, especially if Hatton has a much higher work rate than Bladi.
Nice try though... You antagonising lil' fuk face ;D
They only thing PBF can do to HAtton or Cotto is pull a UD
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grinch
Mayweather would not STOP Hatton at ANY weight.
You saw how he fought against Baldi... Those tactics could never warrant a stoppage, especially if Hatton has a much higher work rate than Bladi.
Nice try though... You antagonising lil' fuk face ;D
He stop Jesus Chavez. Very similar style to Hatton. Without the fouls that is
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
This is true ;D
Im only saying that cause i see it on Boxrec...
Any vids? Never actually seen that fight.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
He stop Jesus Chavez. Very similar style to Hatton. Without the fouls that is
Would that be Jesus Chavez the super featherweight or?
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Grinch
This is true ;D
Im only saying that cause i see it on Boxrec...
Any vids? Never actually seen that fight.
[youtube=425,350]Fco0PmJX8bw[/youtube]
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Beautifull stuff!
Mind you, im sure Hattons bigger and tougher than that.
It shows you though... If you chase him, he fights...
Dela Hoya is gonna do some serious damage man :-\
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Violent Demise
He stop Jesus Chavez. Very similar style to Hatton. Without the fouls that is
Would that be Jesus Chavez the super featherweight or?
Or what? Is there another Jesus Chavez that's any good?
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Well this is whats confusing, if Floyd had halted a big strong light welterweight then I see your point. As he didnt, you dont have one.
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Re: Hatton v Cotto@147-what do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
Well this is whats confusing, if Floyd had halted a big strong light welterweight then I see your point. As he didnt, you dont have one.
Maybe Mayweather should face an overrated paper champion who actually lost his last fight like Urango.
