Because he was good during his prime but that lose to dougals to me thier no way his prime could of left that fast
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Because he was good during his prime but that lose to dougals to me thier no way his prime could of left that fast
So i do not understand the logic for Tyson being out of prime when he got his first lost
....it's up for debateQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
This is how perverse the arguments can get that now we think a prime Tyson could not the current crop of heavyweights. If Wlad can get knocked down by Samuel Peter he would be knocked out by Tyson. Tyson would smell the vulnerability and fear and crucify Wlad, who is the best heavyweight out there. The rest are not even worthy of debating.
Lennox would win - to big and had the jab to control the fight.
They are two different fighters....by YOUR rational I could say Max Baer could beat the shit out of Larry Holmes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I respect Tyson and all but Wladimir is just reaching his peak so we haven't seen his best yet and Alex Povetkin is on his way up as well
Master is a Tyson fan Lyle you can not say any thing to him because he will never agree with you
You can tell who is a great fighter by their performances and Wlad is good but never great. Unify the titles and defends them, then you can talk about great champions not before.
....well Wladimir is still fighting at a top level and so his history with the sport isn't written in stone yet.
If Wladimir unifies the way things are today i think that is a big accomplishment in itself.
I want to preface this by saying,I am NOT a Tyson fan,heck I just rewatched Tyson/Douglas again just for the giggle I get watching Mike trying to put his mouthpiece back in when he should be worrying about the count.
His ability to slip and ride the jab in his prime would have made Lewis a very brief smear,in his prime Mike could box,and had enough foot speed to make up for any hieght deficiencies,and once he got in,bad things happened,and happened very quickly.Lewis thought Rahaman hit hard in just the right spot,lord what Mike would have done.
this manages to pop up every now and then and it NEVER goes away i swear!! i aint read all of this thread but ive commented on about 10 similar ones and the answer is always the same Prime Tyson knocks Lewis out late!
I am going to be a little different here.
I will say a Prime Tyson can Beat a Prime Lewis....BUT!!
A past prime Lewis beats a Prime Tyson and an Old Tyson, simply because as he got older, he fought smarter. When Lewis was in his Prime, he took a lot of chances and he was vulnerable. As he got older, he got more cagey and would beat Tyson every time.
....Lewis' prime was when he was older.
Lennox's uppercut was vicious and I think he, like Holyfield could fight dirty when he needed to
Lewis prime, which ever version Rudduck or post Holyfield (which I agree with Lyle was the prime Lewis) looses to a prime Tyson.
....I think the relaxed older Lewis has a little difficulty with Tyson in the first 5 rounds and then Tyson gives up and gets battered for the remaining rounds until he's KO'd in 8
I say a Prime Tyson, He would have scared the living shat out of a Prime Lewis and knocked him out, When they both was in the amateurs, Tyson beat the crap out of him.
....when they were in the amateurs Tyson might have beaten Lewis up one day but Lewis beat Tyson up the next.
Lewis wasn't scared of anyone in his prime, Tyson was too mental to understand what was going on in his head during his prime
If Lewis focused and in prime with right trainer by his side Tyson fucked and is wetting his pants before the fight.
If Tyson focused and in prime with right trainer by his side Lewis fucked and is wetting his pants before the fight. ;)
Yea but Mike Tyson with the right focus and mental game what dream world you live in.
Right, so every single taller fighter that Mike fought when he was, actually, GOD, got knocked out in the first round if they dared throw a jab at him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainer Monkey
SNAP OUT OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Sorry bout that, I'm trying to get you out of the hypnosis that Kevin Rooney and Teddy Atlas seem to have you under.
If Lewis fights safe and take Mike into the later rounds I think he wins by KO. Pumps the jab stays on his toes and ties Mike up on the inside A La Holyfield. I think Mike even in his prime is still a fragile mental and emotional person. If Lennox can frustrate him and take him deep into a fight once again I'd pick him to win by 11/12 rnd KO.
....or Tyson could throw a right hand and KTFO Lewis. ^-^
Yea if he did not breack down after getting hit and outboxed by Lewis which he would then Lewis would put him away late in the fight.
Tyson did not break down in his prime. He took his beating with grace. Lewis could not remember his defeats as he was always knocked out.
That may have been the difference. To beat Lewis you had to knock him out. To beat Mike all you had to do was persevere until the savage onslaught subsided and then pick your punches.
Yeah that all you have to do. Many tried and many failed. In his prime it was not that easy.
Well yea but the best guy he ever beat was a 38 year old Larry holmes that pretty sad to be called unbeatable when your best win is a 38 year old Holmes who did not fight in a while so we do not know how Tyson would of done with elite compation because everytime he faced one he lost.
.....FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr140
When Frank Bruno is the toughest guy in his prime at the same time tyson is in his then I think it's safe to say it was a weak era
Wasn't easy to KO lewis tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
His KO losses i actually scratch down to complacency and lack of training. He took lots of good shots from Mason, Briggs, Bruno, Rahman 2, Klitschko and even Tua and didn get sparked.
I always seem to be arguing against hitman, Lyle and Mr140 but Tyson wins. He battered the old Holmes like a great fighter should have, you cannot criticise his victory. Holmes has never been knocked out since. Lewis chin is his weakness face it.
Ha, ul be glad to know i don't argue, every post you make i learn a little from it and try to see does it change my reasoning, but it's not happeneing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Holmes was 38, a undeniable legend, but undeniably an aged and battle weary legend. As a fighter Tyson was formidable. His sheer punching ability ranks right up there as anywher in the top 5 of all time. His movement was good, he wasted little in terms of bothe nergy and punches and his aggression was unrivalled EVER apart from the considerably smaller and less rounded Jack Dempsey.
However his antithesis was Lewis, who's chin was unfairly written off as easy to crack. (Tua failed, Briggs caught him and failed, Ruddock Failed, Mason caught him and failed.)
Lewis was naturally blessed with the attributes necessary to beat Tyson. A jab like a javelin, height stamina and sufficient movement and defensive skills to evade Mikes fury....
The sparred when Lewis was 18 and Mike 17, Mike won the first par and the second was even, on the third day Lewis gave him a beating at Catskills. Lewis could figure him oput and beat him...
Well master can argue all you want but in the end Lewis wins and even if Tyson was not prime Lewis still beat him up in real life so it does not matter. Everytime I agrue this people just do not give me any examples on how tyson would win and the only way is a lucky punch but if Lewis is peak he will outbox and knock out Tyson 100 out 101 times if he fought him Tyson is not the better guy and his resume says it all if you do not believe me my friend just look it up.
....And Lewis battered the old TysonQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Didn't we all learn about them sparring when they were younger and Tyson got the best of Lewis on the first day and Lewis got the best of Tyson the next day.
Tyson would always have a shot of KO-ing Lewis but really Lennox could wait Tyson out and go the distance or knock him out....Lewis' size, reach, and ring generalship (especially in his prime) would have made even a Prime Tyson have more trouble than anyone else even on a bad day.
I honestly don't think Tyson had the heart to beat any top 10 heavyweights of all-time
Well that spar took place at about their 18/19th birthdays, so it was a long time ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Supplementary to that, in sparring, if you take it in context, Mike one the first 4 rounds, lewis drew with him in the middle four and Lewis really beat him in the final four...
With neither guy hitting the canvas...
So make what you want from that ;D
....I take from that that lennox never got beat by decision....neither did Tyson but anytime it was close Mike quit....which further supports my theory that Tyson beats no top ten all time great heavyweightQuote:
Originally Posted by hitmandonny
Tyson could have a strong chance of KO Louis, Dempsey, Frasier, Foreman, Lewis early. Never any sign of quit in Tyson at his best.
Thats because no one challenged him, In fact Tony Tucker could of beat Tyson had he not broke his right hand after 4th round. He was clearly winning the fight up until that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
The same Holmes who had few weeks to train, was ill coming into the fight, plus being almost 2 years ring rusty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Yea and do not forget he was not to young at 38 i mean i do not care how you see it 38 is old for a heavyweight my friend.