Media mainstream sportscenter starts show with mma vs boxing debate

Now if Jim "I say sarcastic things so people think i'm intelligent" Rome doesn't blast that main event the next time he has a show, i'll refuse to watch the show ever again. ATH and PTI will for sure tho that i have confidence in.

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Originally Posted by amat

Well most people would do a better job...I would like to think I would do a better job. Maybe get Max Kellerman or Brian Kenny, not Lou Dibella.

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Teddy Atlas would be my man.

Teddy Atlas has the look of former boxer. the nose the slash on his face from a knife fight when he was 14.Man can he analyze a fighter.

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Originally Posted by southakron314

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by southakron314

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Originally Posted by JT Rock

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

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Originally Posted by southakron314

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

Lyle at least be some what informed
Randy Couture is the HW champ not Tim Sylvia
Chuck is a LHW not hw
Title fights are five 5 minute rounds

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What a whopping 3 rounds.Boxers used to 15 rounds until 1984 when Ray boom boom Mancini killed Duk Koo Kim after a vicious right hand to the chin he later went into a coma and died.Ive never scene or hered someone dying in MMA.3 five minute rounds is 15 minutes. 12,3 minute round is well over double that fifteen rounder where three times that. You cant compare
boxing and MMA. Boxers are clearly more well conditioned and by far way more superior as strikers with there hand. MMA is clearly more superior with the ground game and the martial arts.I just happen to preferr boxing. I know guys who do MMA and I cant stand a single one of them from there crappy attitudes to there terrible tribal tattoos.

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So its not about a fighters athleticism or skills....your arguments have denigrated to ragging on a whole group of atheletes b/c of their tattoos and percieved attitudes? There is a word for intolerant people who make broad sweepping generalizations and stereotypes....bigot

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No worries Van Man.. Me and you have been on Saddo's for about the same time.... And trying to educate people against there predjudices, Ignorance and falsehoods against MMA is futile.... MOst people who put down MMA dont know a gotdam thing about it and wind up looking like complete A-Holes to people who know the ins and outs of the sport. Entertainment value is always subjective and thats fine but, when people are just straight up idiotic and lacking real perception, I just dont waste my time anymore. If they want to sound like uneducated street urchins thats fine by me ;)

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So you watch the lastest t.v series of this show and agree these guys fighting in the house provided by the owner of UFC are class acts.I'm sorry to so idiotic and so ignorant to say these perfect gentlemen are complete jerks.God send me to the fiery pits for having such a biased opinion on something that is so obvious.

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Thanks for the :sadclick: I wont retaliate though ;) But who gives a flying fuk if they hump pigeons in the park during there freetime... What the hell does it have to do with their skill set and abiltiy to take a punch... Are you for real??? I'm covered in tats and train in MMA so when you offend the sport you are offending me.. Tell you what I dare you to tell Leban what you think of him and the sport he dedicates himself, trains and bleeds..

I'm sure he would do the same that I would.. See what your really made of and if you are even in a position to run your yap :-X

9x out of 10 the critics are nothing more than keyboard jockeys that think they know something because they saw it on TV or they know someone who trains, so it makes them a tough guy and an expert :beat:

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Baby any day.. I will say what I think to any man.I'm not the biggest dude.6' 220. But well all bleed red baby.I boxed for 10 years. Kenmore boxing club and then goodshepards gym on Howard street. My father was a small time ham and egger pro welter weight .He wasnt the greatest pro. He only had 19 fights.He was 11-7-1.But he is besides the point. I gave an opinion you are the one talking in a tone that seems like wrath like .If Leban was here I would tell him what how he can be a little more classy and less trashy.I guarantee he would have a tough time taking me on my feet.I swat harder than he dose. I guarantee you that. He would probablly have to take me down and work his game and choke me out.I was a amateur from 8 years till I was 18.I won a silver glove at 120. I have knocked kids out with headgear on. My son is 5 years old and is going to the gym allready.So don't put down what you don't know or understand. Because I know and understand MMA guys. My cousin dose it and my wife's ex boyfriend dose it. And if you ask me they are both a complete waste of Oxygen. Then I see what these so called men do on T.v .Of all places the home that is provided to them by the owner of the company.The best education I got was on the streets. Hopefully you never had to fight your way in and out of neighborhoods in Connecticut. In urban Akron's dirty south side you do. I used to carry a cue ball stuffed in a sock for protection when I was 12.You have to do what you have to do.I still live in Akron but in a different area but still in the south side non the less. I have been slashed with a knife shot at, jumped, I have even had a dog sicked on me during a street fight.So don't tell me what for.Im sure you are a decent man an hopefully you can understand where Im coming from.True....I had 3 best freinds growing up.1 is still alive.Alan deceded to taste test a buck shot and Marcus was murdered in his sleep by his neighboor for drug money.I hate my past.I don't ever want that for my child or even yours if you have any its not fun. I do not wish that upon any man if I agree with him or not.

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Thanks for running down your resume for me..... Boy you are a real tuff guy... Anyway, your argument still sucks I'm sorry its highly ignorant and lacking substance...So big deal, your mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers , cousins roomate Ted is covered in Tattoos and is a jackass who consequntly trains in MMA... Gee Sherlock JACKASSES PLAY, PRO FOOTBALL, BASEBALL, BOX, MMA etc... So if you want to put a blind eye to yahoos of others sports fine be a bumpkin but shame on you if you indeed trained hard in Boxing and your father too was a pro and both of you trained hard and dedicated your self, but you can look at someone who bleeds, sweats and dedicates themselves to be the best at what they do just to have somene degrade them..... The streets should have taght you one thing about a fellow warrior... RESPECT!!!!!

:coolclick: jt rocks
stariotypes are always the way to go when your having a hard time with logic
the door is always open for any boxer to step in the cage

i've been watching some of that MMA shit. the guy who can throw a good punch generally does pretty well.

....i finally...finally caught a mma event beggining to end, a neighbor came by and invited me over i usually say no thanks but wanted to see what the big deal was about ..don't wanna talk about something i've never seen..anyhow i don't see how that over-hyped four punch 40 second fight is any different than the hype of the mayweather fight....i still feel like i haven't really seen the sport nor do i really want to..but the only thing i took away from it at least from this match was there is no sport where a lucky punch is so much more important than skill...i still have no idea how good either of these guys are..he hit him a couple time the guy lidell fell down match over....to each his own but i don't see how the two sports are comparable...it's too totaly different things in my opinion....one i like and one i don't.

your right the rampage and liddel fight didnt show off all the skills that go into mma i guess my question to you is do you think that the concept is possible. For there to be a fighter who is talented enough to stand with anyone and also be the greatest ground fighter. This is what I am striving for becouse I am a good boxer not great yet but I also am naturally talented at jujitsu so it is interesting to see who can put it all together. The concept is exciting becouse no one has mastered it all yet, so i just wonder if you see the potential or if you just don't see it as a possibility.

Wow good question....i'd have to think about it a bit...but what i came away with from this weekend is everyone has thier different tastes but to try and compare the two i think is a little silly..i don't know why but i don't see the similarities in the two...thier both fighting but that is about where the similarities end with me....i'm gonna give it a fair shot though matter of fact a friend got me and my wife some tic's to the matches coming to arco july 7th with tito ortiz...so we'll see.....i was just dissapointed that with all the build-up and all the recent comparisons i've heard as of late that two or so punches 40 seconds in and the fight was over...all the ju-jistu, karate, etc....and the match end's in a so-so boxing match...I can see why some people dislike mma..but i just feel you don't necessarily have to hate one to like the other....mma just doesn't interest me.

Is the anticlimactic ending of UFC 71 much different than Tyson's 91 second fight w/ Spinks?...The spinks fight I'd say was even more built up. its fighting anyway, there is always the potential for first round KOs or long snore fests..lets be honest when you are talking about two fighters who hit like mules, are perfectly willing to stand and trade and wear 4 oz gloves is anyone really suprised with the ending...The margin for error in MMA is much smaller than boxing..smaller gloves, no standing eight count, if you get rocked it is much harder to survive the round than in boxing.

the comparison that i make is the George st Pierre vs Matt Serra fight and the Roy Jones Vs Antonio Tarver 2 match. they were both fights where i thought there was a clear talent difference and wow i didnt see that coming. this fight was going to be a slugfest and i wonder if its just hard for mma fighters to relax and box when they know every punch will end the fight i think they need more work on that

If Chuck was more aware of his punches he could have slipped on him coming in. Any body who has ever boxed knows its alot easier to knock the spit out of some on coming in than some on who is rolling. Chuck should have tried to make him miss. Late in a fight Rampage missing big shots expends as much energy as taking a good jab on the chin. I saw the highlights on line and for good sakes tuck your chin.

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Originally Posted by VanChilds

Is the anticlimactic ending of UFC 71 much different than Tyson's 91 second fight w/ Spinks?...The spinks fight I'd say was even more built up. its fighting anyway, there is always the potential for first round KOs or long snore fests..lets be honest when you are talking about two fighters who hit like mules, are perfectly willing to stand and trade and wear 4 oz gloves is anyone really suprised with the ending...The margin for error in MMA is much smaller than boxing..smaller gloves, no standing eight count, if you get rocked it is much harder to survive the round than in boxing.

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There's plenty of differences between tyson and that ufc 71 farce. First of all they didn't dance and then the fight was over when the first exchange hapened. There were plenty of exchanges going into the ko. Secondly i'm sure everyone expected and hyped up tyson to win as he was the face of boxing by that time. If spinks would've upset tyson while tyson was the face of the sport in lame fashion it would've been a huge blow to boxing.

Ufc is no different from a street fight. a street fight can end on one lucky punch. These "trained" fighters get 6 digit paychecks and their work is usually done in under 5 minutes. I don't see dana white handing out paychecks to everyone who gets in a moderately entertaining street fight. Quit trying to glamorize a pussified street fight as an actual sport. Either enter a real sport (boxing or the others i've listed) or make your money on the street illegally don't try and market this pussy shit you call mma as a legitimate sport. Kickboxing is a sport. Boxing is a sport. Wrestling (collegiate) is a sport. Practicing and competing in various forms of respective martial arts is a sport (karate, tae kwon do, muai thai, jui jitsu etc.) Putting them all together is not a sport.

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

Ufc is no different from a street fight. a street fight can end on one lucky punch.

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Because I can't count the number of times I've seen a perfectly executed triangle or a knee bar on the pavement downtown ::**

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

These "trained" fighters get 6 digit paychecks and their work is usually done in under 5 minutes.

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What are you trying to imply? That MMAers don't train? And no, 6 digit pay checks is not the norm in the UFC. When Evan Tanner and David Terrell fought for the title, Tanner got $30,000 as the champion and a $5,000 winning bonus. Far from 6 digits and that was a championship fight.

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

I don't see dana white handing out paychecks to everyone who gets in a moderately entertaining street fight. Quit trying to glamorize a pussified street fight as an actual sport.

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Glamorize? I think this sport is the least glamorous of all the sports on the market. And the street fighting angle is just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

Either enter a real sport (boxing or the others i've listed) or make your money on the street illegally don't try and market this pussy shit you call mma as a legitimate sport. Kickboxing is a sport. Boxing is a sport. Wrestling (collegiate) is a sport. Practicing and competing in various forms of respective martial arts is a sport (karate, tae kwon do, muai thai, jui jitsu etc.) Putting them all together is not a sport.

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What is a sport then? An athletic competition that is engaged within a certain set of rules? MMA is probably the most competitive sport to, where ANYONE has a chance. And very rarely is a fight incredibly boring. This post is shit. Honestly it is, your judgement is so damn clouded it's ridiculous. Hate to do it but SC.

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Originally Posted by amat

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

Ufc is no different from a street fight. a street fight can end on one lucky punch.

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Because I can't count the number of times I've seen a perfectly executed triangle or a knee bar on the pavement downtown ::**

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

These "trained" fighters get 6 digit paychecks and their work is usually done in under 5 minutes.

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What are you trying to imply?  That MMAers don't train?  And no, 6 digit pay checks is not the norm in the UFC.  When Evan Tanner and David Terrell fought for the title, Tanner got $30,000 as the champion and a $5,000 winning bonus.  Far from 6 digits and that was a championship fight.

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

I don't see dana white handing out paychecks to everyone who gets in a moderately entertaining street fight. Quit trying to glamorize a pussified street fight as an actual sport.

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Glamorize?  I think this sport is the least glamorous of all the sports on the market.  And the street fighting angle is just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

Either enter a real sport (boxing or the others i've listed) or make your money on the street illegally don't try and market this pussy shit you call mma as a legitimate sport. Kickboxing is a sport. Boxing is a sport. Wrestling (collegiate) is a sport. Practicing and competing in various forms of respective martial arts is a sport (karate, tae kwon do, muai thai, jui jitsu etc.) Putting them all together is not a sport.

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What is a sport then?  An athletic competition that is engaged within a certain set of rules?  MMA is probably the most competitive sport to, where ANYONE has a chance.  And very rarely is a fight incredibly boring. This post is shit.  Honestly it is, your judgement is so damn clouded it's ridiculous.  Hate to do it but SC. 

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Thats my problem with the whole thing. Saying something is so skillful and takes so much training yet anyone that goes thru the training can have a chance thats why i don't think its a legitimate sport.

Most of american kids have played baseball when they are young and guess how many of them are skilled enough to compete at a pro level? Not many. You can't just send up anybody expect for them to hit a gamewinning walk off home run.

Everybody watches football and says i can do that when T.O. drops a pass. A lot of people can't run full speed with a 180 pound guy right next to him turn around stay in bounds and catch a ball thats coming at them in an excess of 50 miles an hour. A lot of people can't throw the ball that well either even if they are raised to throw a football from infantcy years on up.

Soccer. Do you see how fast and accurate some of those guys move and kick the ball? I don't care if you train for that your entire life more often than not you're not gonna be good enough to make it on a great team. And do you see how big the nets are? It takes great hand eye cooridnation and great flexability to block a lot of those shot and you cant necessarily train for that.

Hockey (and i hate hockey). You have to skate around at high speeds moving around a small black puck with a stick. That requires unbelievable hand eye coordination. Its even harder to block that thing flying at 90+ miles an hour into a goal thats twice the size of your body.

Basketball. The hoops not that big and it takes a lot of body control to finish those plays successfully. again you can train all your life and that doesn't mean you could impact on the professional level.

Boxing. You have to train for years to get an understanding of defense and counter punching and good footwork and proper punching technique. There's people that start boxing when they are 5 years old and they can't make it in the pros.

Now you wanna tell me that MMA belongs in the same sentence as anyone of those sports? A "sport" where any bum of the street that can throw a strong right hook can win if the other guys is afraid to fight back? A "sport" where your job is sometimes done in under 2 minutes and people think it was entertaining? A "sport" where people constantly say any two fighters can put on a great showing?

Watch a game 7 of the world series, nba finals, or nhl finals. Watch the superbowl when its down to 2 minutes and somebody has to drive down the field. Watch a soccer game when its 1-1 and time is winding down. Watch a championship boxing match where two people go to war for almost an hour and one fighter has the heart to get up when he was knocked senseless. Thats a sport. Here's your :sadclick:

Any bum off the street can throw a strong right and if it is slipped, he gets his ass handed to him. If you think it requires no skill, catch a guy in a arm bar. Or recover from being slammed full on from 6 feet in the air to a triangle choke in less then a couple seconds. Just because you don't see any guy possessing blinding speed or awesome power, but nobody can step in there with Rampage or Fedor just like no one can run with T.O. And that's what you're implying and you're wrong. I don't know why I bother with it, it's the dumbest thing. I would hope others can take a step back and look at how fucken stupid you look. If "anybody" can do it, why don't you step up and make your millions? Go on. It's easy. Just one punch.

You're judging the whole sport off of one fight. Even Lyle recognizes the skill involved, he just thinks they would be better served to focus a little more on boxing and that the brand isn't exciting to him. As much as I disagree on the last part, that is fine. You won't ever see me SC Lyle because he argues his points to the point to which they are actually relevant to the subject. You're implying that anybody can just make it in the UFC. Maybe 10 years ago the local bar room brawler could, but the degree to which BJJ has been mastered in MMA, that's not possible anymore. That's why you see Butterbean who CAN punch and punch very hard getting his hat handed to him in MMA.

You have to train, it requires a very vast skillset, thus why it is called mixed martial arts. You watched one fight and you now think you know everything that there is to know about the sport. Whatever man.

First of all i've seen many fights end on technically sloppy moments and Secondly i'd rather compete in a legitimate sport like boxing instead. And did you just bring up butterbean as a legitimate heavyweight boxer? ???

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

First of all i've seen many fights end on technically sloppy moments and Secondly i'd rather compete in a legitimate sport like boxing instead.

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I've seen plenty of boxers who did not belong in the ring. In fact, I see A TON of sloppiness from top level fighters in boxing but they get away with it because that is the nature of the game. Hate it or love it, if you're in the ring with a good fighter in MMA and you're sloppy, there is a good chance you are done. I can't count the number of times I've seen Judah back out with his hands down but he's been knocked out just once. Liddell did it once, and he paid for it with a loss.

And explain how MMA is not a legitimate sport PLEASE.

I already did. There might be training needed to learn how to put a submission on but how can you call it a sport when it ends quite readily with one guy just giving up? I've never seen a football game where one team was like "Yeah we're tied but i just don't feel like continuing." You can call me stupid i don't care you're not the first and you won't be the last but i won't accept it as a legitimate sport.

Nascar has a bigger fan base than boxing and i don't consider it a sport because its people driving machines. Now you can get all technical with the wind drafting and strtegic pitstops but im not buying it Golf gets more coverage than boxing (hell it even has its own fucking channel) but i won't call that a legitimate sport because people well in their 60's can do it. Mma has a huge fan base but i will never call it a legitimate sport when a lot of fights end quickly or by a guy making another one submit by pulling on his arm (sorry i didn't include the steps behind him pulling on the arm you get the idea don't give me the "its harder than you think" speech because i've heard it already). I don't wanna watch something where somebody can quit and its considered part of the game

Again just to make myself clear, I don't care if you don't like MMA. I don't care if you hate it. But to say it is not a sport, or to say the guys are untrained is ridiculous. And I think that's the frustration on MMA's end, that they are continually slighted with that stuff from fans of all sports. Have a feeling though that this thread is going to the hidden boards soon because the hate is ridiculous.

Let me show you some posters who don't like MMA but post like a civilly. Akron seems to have cleaned it up a bit, so I put his post on here because he had some real input. I don't agree much but they are fine post. Not degrading MMA and MMAers or anything.

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Originally Posted by Mar

Wow good question....i'd have to think about it a bit...but what i came away with from this weekend is everyone has thier different tastes but to try and compare the two i think is a little silly..i don't know why but i don't see the similarities in the two...thier both fighting but that is about where the similarities end with me....i'm gonna give it a fair shot though matter of fact a friend got me and my wife some tic's to the matches coming to arco july 7th with tito ortiz...so we'll see.....i was just dissapointed that with all the build-up and all the recent comparisons i've heard as of late that two or so punches 40 seconds in and the fight was over...all the ju-jistu, karate, etc....and the match end's in a so-so boxing match...I can see why some people dislike mma..but i just feel you don't necessarily have to hate one to like the other....mma just doesn't interest me.

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Originally Posted by southakron314

If Chuck was more aware of his punches he could have slipped on him coming in. Any body who has ever boxed knows its alot easier to knock the spit out of some on coming in than some on who is rolling. Chuck should have tried to make him miss. Late in a fight Rampage missing big shots expends as much energy as taking a good jab on the chin. I saw the highlights on line and for good sakes tuck your chin.

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Originally Posted by 'The Boxer'

i've been watching some of that MMA shit. the guy who can throw a good punch generally does pretty well.

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That's 3, and that's just what I was available to quote. Even most of Lyle's stuff is acceptable and what wasn't he owned up to and admitted it just stemmed from his really not liking the sport. You're (Punisher) actually trying to make a case by comparing MMA to other sports (which doesn't that defeat most people's apples and oranges argument?) and it is just lunacy to read. Hopefully you're drunk or something because the earlier post weren't bad.

If not, stick to your little math formulas.

I'm standing my ground and not accepting it ever. I find it terrible that quitting is part of the game and people like seeing another person quit.

There you go comparing other sports again.

THE TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT NASCAR. IT'S NOT ABOUT FOOTBALL, SOCCER, BASKETBALL OR ANY OTHER SPORT.

Giving up? A triangle choke chokes off the oxygen supply to the brain, you have no choice but to tap, it's not giving up. If that is giving up, then a boxer who is not physically capable of getting up off the mat is giving up. I guess they could go until they no longer have the capability to stay conscious, but the body usually disagrees and forces the tap.

And boxers give up too. Duran gave up in one of boxing's highest profile bouts ever. So I guess boxing isn't a sport.

Enjoy your fad while it lasts. I don't care what training it takes, it is less skilled than boxing and a lesser skilled man can run the "sport" unlike in boxing. You'd never understand why i hate it so im not even explaining it to you.

My fad? What are you talking about? Firstly, I think that even though I am a fan of MMA, I think it will suffer a dip in popularity shortly. I really do. And I'm much more of a boxing fan then I am a MMA fan. I just enjoy both sports.

You can't say it is less skilled then boxing because it doesn't require the same skillsets, you can't compare. An MMAer might say that you need a vast array of skills to compete in MMA and they are more skilled. A boxer then might say since the boxing skillset isn't as big, it takes more discipline to hone in on one particular area.

Whatever, it's all different. I just hope people read your post. They're deceptively long, you might actually think you're making a point in there. Nope, all BS.

read the liddel article i posted about him and morrison. You know what don't even bother, i don't care what you think.

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Originally Posted by amat

There you go comparing other sports again.

THE TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT NASCAR. IT'S NOT ABOUT FOOTBALL, SOCCER, BASKETBALL OR ANY OTHER SPORT.

Giving up? A triangle choke chokes off the oxygen supply to the brain, you have no choice but to tap, it's not giving up. If that is giving up, then a boxer who is not physically capable of getting up off the mat is giving up. I guess they could go until they no longer have the capability to stay conscious, but the body usually disagrees and forces the tap.

And boxers give up too. Duran gave up in one of boxing's highest profile bouts ever. So I guess boxing isn't a sport.

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I said what i felt is a sport and what isn't a sport so yeah that kinda does fit into the conversation.

No you weren't. You were talking about what skills certain sports required. And then you said MMA requires no skill. In a nutshell that's what you said. Not only is it wrong, but you didn't have to bring the other sports up. You could have just said what I said you said.

You change up so much. First it's that the sport requires no skill that it's not a sport. Then it's because one punch can end it. Then it's the fact that you can "quit", quite honestly it's stupid.

And I love how you ignore my points. LOL, I'm starting to think you're Starr. Except I know Starr isn't this ignorant.

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

i don't care what you think.

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I'm gutted. Just gutted.

I think it's crap and you don't. I don't understand this so i'm throwing random things im picking up about the "sport" to maybe make you understand.

I sound like an old man in the 1950's talking about rock-n-roll. " Im afriad its here to stay."

There are ways to argue that boxing is better than MMA without trashing MMA in the process.

UFC requires skill, it requires dedication, it requires strategy, just like all sports.

Boxing is a great sport, it's a greater sport than MMA in my opinion, but that doesn't mean MMA is garbage.

Woo hoo first post! Thanks for havin me! O0

First of all after reading the posts in this thread I've learned that one's opinion in sports is as adamant and sometimes as ignorant of facts as politics and religion.

That being said, I'm a huge MMA fan and watch boxing when its free on HBO in between PRIDE and UFC pay-per-views. Most MMA fans, including myself, are willing to play Devil's Advocate and look at both sides of the coin. They are 2 different sports and even though I'm not a huge supporter of boxing I respect the boxers and their fans. Myself being a MMA fan, I've heard nothing but criticism or immediate aggression from boxing fans and promoters alike. Usually when you go into a debate that way its a sign of desperation, maybe like you have something to prove? I myself respect all professional athletes who do what they love, and I would expect true fans of any sport to do the same. Oh well.

In retrospect, maybe Punisher136 actually does have a valid point. One COULD say that MMA isn't full of athletes, they are FIGHTERS. Its as much realism as a sport. And thats why its becoming so popular so fast. The young generation used to instant results are finding the much quicker and explosive fights more entertaining than the drawn out 12 rounders with the same defensive maneuvering. There are more fighters, more fights on the cards, and more heart in MMA right now than in boxing. Its really a dynamite attraction that can end in dozens of ways. I really don't have to argue for MMA though, the numbers will do the talking for me.

And thats my 2 cents. I don't mind being flamed so I'll happily be a text punching bag, fire away! It would be fairly easy for me to rip up boxing, but being on your turf on a boxing forum I'll be respectful. Remember though, its going to take a little more than "its crap -- cause I said so" approach to get me to appreciate boxing more. It just makes you, and your sport, look bad.

nice first post nate17 if i could cool click ya i would but I think there is another point that is most valid to me in mma becuse its so new it is evolving and i feel like i am a part of that I work new moves that no one has thought of I keep looking for better ways to do things. And that is probably what boxing fans see and say well its not as technical or fine tuned as boxing, and there right. But that is also what makes it so exciting for me to be a part of it, becouse all young athletes can have the oppotunity to be the next great step in perfecting one of the most complicated and dynamic sports today. :boxing2:

P.S. I did post my last mma fight on the mma board so if ya'll boxing fans want to see it I did train hard on my boxing skills and i think it payed off :o

Thats a really good point too TKD, MMA is a really young sport. UFC getting bought by Zuffa and Dana White in 2001 was the beginning of the evolution, its really growing every day and gets more exciting every year. I can only see things going up from here. Even boxing began with 15 minute brawls with blood and teeth flying, wearing 'fistcuffs'. And I'm sure there were the antagonists back then comparing it to 'cockfighting' as well. ;)

So where do you fight out of? I live in St. Louis, train at The Boxing Gym and Earnest Hart Jr.'s Shootfighting for my stand up and a Gracie BJJ class for my ground game.

I just cant stand the lack of punching skills these kids have. God damn keep your chin tucked so you don't end up like Liddell .

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Originally Posted by southakron314

I just cant stand the lack of punching skills these kids have. God damn keep your chin tucked so you don't end up like Liddell .

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thanks for the tip southakron. my bro gets on my case on that to.

Nate17 I train at Roughhouse mma in Michigan. But I do alot of work with my brothers, one is big into boxing and the others train bjj mostly. my older brother is in florida fighting pro and he will be the next champ at 145 ;D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by southakron314

I sound like an old man in the 1950's talking about rock-n-roll. " Im afriad its here to stay."

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...but Rock'n'Roll was cool....MMA isn't


When it all comes down to the simplicity of the sport people just want to watch boxing....very few people want TKD or ju jitsu or wrestling......fans either want Boxing or WWE.

I just hate that people who can't hack it doing anything else have to make up something like a bunch of pussy ass spoiled brats. The X-Games, And One Basketball, etc they all can't hack it anywhere else

I've said it once and i'll say it again. It takes more skill to win a single disciplined match than a mixed one. In a single discipline (boxing, kick boxing, jiu jitsu, collegiate wrestling, etc.) your options are limited so you have to be greatly skilled to exploit the options you do have. You can clearly measure talent because one person doesn't have something to fall back on that they know better than their opponent. UFC is like letting someone punch in a wrestling match; Its like letting someone tackle somebody in a kick boxing match.

The initial idea was great (kind of a nadal-federer clay/grass court bar bet kind of experiment) but basing a sport around a bar bet is a dumb idea (yeah it makes money but so does meth). Now it is a watered down street fight where somebody has several options to win and skill is hard to measure. A lot of the fights look very amaturish (some outlets more than others) and the concept of the UFC as it stands now is pointless. The only thing the UFC could do worth while is finding a guy who excels at all points of combat or has a fighting style so perfect that he never loses a fight and both of these are impossibilites.

The gracie's won the initial tournament and thats cool hats off to them but they didn't face the best boxer or kick boxers out there at the time. Tyson was well established as a boxing powerhouse by the time the UFC came around and if im not mistaken Vitali Klitschko was a well established kick boxer as well yet they were not in the tournament for whatever reason. The Significance of this is, in a fighting atmosphere where things are multi dimensional, being better on the ground will only serve you well if you can get thru the range that someone in a pure "striking" art can dish out at you.

In the situation where you excel at the ground and your opponent excels fighting upright he has the advantage because the fight starts upright and taking it to the ground means nothing if you can't get thru his ranged punches or kicks. Taking out your opponent in your element before he can even get to his is an advantage that boxers and kickboxers (muai thai as well as suppose) have over someone who is a pure jiu jitsu/ wrestling guy. Cross traing is fine and dandy but theres no way that somebody can become both a master boxer and an excellent jiu jitsu artist or wrestler.

Take any mma fighter and put them in the ring with the rules of any single disciplined arts they have trained in. Against a boxer they lose. Against a kickboxer they lose. Against a wrestler they lose. Against a Muai Thai fighter they lose. Against a Jiu Jitsu guy they lose. Against any single disciplined martial artist (and i'll say this despite the fact that i think a lot of traditional martial arts are unsuitable for combat anyways) they lose if that fight takes place under any single discipline rules.

What you're essentially saying when you say an mma fighter beats a boxer/kickboxer/jiu jitsu fighter under mma rules is that an mma fighter does not have enough skill to beat a guy in a single discipline and can only win if he has an advantage at one thing or another over the other guy. If it stays up the pure boxer/kickboxer/muai thai (striker) wins. If it goes down and stays there, the wrestler/jiu jitsu guy wins. Pure artists have more skill than mixed ones. FACT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by southakron314

I sound like an old man in the 1950's talking about rock-n-roll. " Im afriad its here to stay."

---

...but Rock'n'Roll was cool....MMA isn't


When it all comes down to the simplicity of the sport people just want to watch boxing....very few people want TKD or ju jitsu or wrestling......fans either want Boxing or WWE.

I just hate that people who can't hack it doing anything else have to make up something like a bunch of pussy a** spoiled brats. The X-Games, And One Basketball, etc they all can't hack it anywhere else

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

I've said it once and i'll say it again. It takes more skill to win a single disciplined match than a mixed one. In a single discipline (boxing, kick boxing, jiu jitsu, collegiate wrestling, etc.) your options are limited so you have to be greatly skilled to exploit the options you do have. You can clearly measure talent because one person doesn't have something to fall back on that they know better than their opponent. UFC is like letting someone punch in a wrestling match; Its like letting someone tackle somebody in a kick boxing match.

The initial idea was great (kind of a nadal-federer clay/grass court bar bet kind of experiment) but basing a sport around a bar bet is a dumb idea (yeah it makes money but so does meth). Now it is a watered down street fight where somebody has several options to win and skill is hard to measure. A lot of the fights look very amaturish (some outlets more than others) and the concept of the UFC as it stands now is pointless. The only thing the UFC could do worth while is finding a guy who excels at all points of combat or has a fighting style so perfect that he never loses a fight and both of these are impossibilites.

The gracie's won the initial tournament and thats cool hats off to them but they didn't face the best boxer or kick boxers out there at the time. Tyson was well established as a boxing powerhouse by the time the UFC came around and if im not mistaken Vitali Klitschko was a well established kick boxer as well yet they were not in the tournament for whatever reason. The Significance of this is, in a fighting atmosphere where things are multi dimensional, being better on the ground will only serve you well if you can get thru the range that someone in a pure "striking" art can dish out at you.

In the situation where you excel at the ground and your opponent excels fighting upright he has the advantage because the fight starts upright and taking it to the ground means nothing if you can't get thru his ranged punches or kicks. Taking out your opponent in your element before he can even get to his is an advantage that boxers and kickboxers (muai thai as well as suppose) have over someone who is a pure jiu jitsu/ wrestling guy. Cross traing is fine and dandy but theres no way that somebody can become both a master boxer and an excellent jiu jitsu artist or wrestler.

Take any mma fighter and put them in the ring with the rules of any single disciplined arts they have trained in. Against a boxer they lose. Against a kickboxer they lose. Against a wrestler they lose. Against a Muai Thai fighter they lose. Against a Jiu Jitsu guy they lose. Against any single disciplined martial artist (and i'll say this despite the fact that i think a lot of traditional martial arts are unsuitable for combat anyways) they lose if that fight takes place under any single discipline rules.

What you're essentially saying when you say an mma fighter beats a boxer/kickboxer/jiu jitsu fighter under mma rules is that an mma fighter does not have enough skill to beat a guy in a single discipline and can only win if he has an advantage at one thing or another over the other guy. If it stays up the pure boxer/kickboxer/muai thai (striker) wins. If it goes down and stays there, the wrestler/jiu jitsu guy wins. Pure artists have more skill than mixed ones. FACT.

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Lyle just wanted to point out that i hate WWE. >:mad And Punisher the whole thing about MMA fighters losing in any single discaplined match is just not true. Most mma fighters were or are a champion at a single discapline many were kickboxing champs, college wrestlers, naga winners ect. I guess the only art that isn't well represented is boxing and thats probably becouse there is a well established pro. org. where boxers are looking to make more money. I was one of the better TKD fighters for a while but there is no pro tkd and I have some talent in boxing and jujitsu so i just don't see the point in wasteing any of that talent. I know that you think tkd is good for nothing and that if i don't train in only boxing that my hands will be crap but i hope i can prove u wrong ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tkdboy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by southakron314

I sound like an old man in the 1950's talking about rock-n-roll. " Im afriad its here to stay."

---

...but Rock'n'Roll was cool....MMA isn't


When it all comes down to the simplicity of the sport people just want to watch boxing....very few people want TKD or ju jitsu or wrestling......fans either want Boxing or WWE.

I just hate that people who can't hack it doing anything else have to make up something like a bunch of pussy a** spoiled brats. The X-Games, And One Basketball, etc they all can't hack it anywhere else

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

I've said it once and i'll say it again. It takes more skill to win a single disciplined match than a mixed one. In a single discipline (boxing, kick boxing, jiu jitsu, collegiate wrestling, etc.) your options are limited so you have to be greatly skilled to exploit the options you do have. You can clearly measure talent because one person doesn't have something to fall back on that they know better than their opponent. UFC is like letting someone punch in a wrestling match; Its like letting someone tackle somebody in a kick boxing match.

The initial idea was great (kind of a nadal-federer clay/grass court bar bet kind of experiment) but basing a sport around a bar bet is a dumb idea (yeah it makes money but so does meth). Now it is a watered down street fight where somebody has several options to win and skill is hard to measure. A lot of the fights look very amaturish (some outlets more than others) and the concept of the UFC as it stands now is pointless. The only thing the UFC could do worth while is finding a guy who excels at all points of combat or has a fighting style so perfect that he never loses a fight and both of these are impossibilites.

The gracie's won the initial tournament and thats cool hats off to them but they didn't face the best boxer or kick boxers out there at the time. Tyson was well established as a boxing powerhouse by the time the UFC came around and if im not mistaken Vitali Klitschko was a well established kick boxer as well yet they were not in the tournament for whatever reason. The Significance of this is, in a fighting atmosphere where things are multi dimensional, being better on the ground will only serve you well if you can get thru the range that someone in a pure "striking" art can dish out at you.

In the situation where you excel at the ground and your opponent excels fighting upright he has the advantage because the fight starts upright and taking it to the ground means nothing if you can't get thru his ranged punches or kicks. Taking out your opponent in your element before he can even get to his is an advantage that boxers and kickboxers (muai thai as well as suppose) have over someone who is a pure jiu jitsu/ wrestling guy. Cross traing is fine and dandy but theres no way that somebody can become both a master boxer and an excellent jiu jitsu artist or wrestler.

Take any mma fighter and put them in the ring with the rules of any single disciplined arts they have trained in. Against a boxer they lose. Against a kickboxer they lose. Against a wrestler they lose. Against a Muai Thai fighter they lose. Against a Jiu Jitsu guy they lose. Against any single disciplined martial artist (and i'll say this despite the fact that i think a lot of traditional martial arts are unsuitable for combat anyways) they lose if that fight takes place under any single discipline rules.

What you're essentially saying when you say an mma fighter beats a boxer/kickboxer/jiu jitsu fighter under mma rules is that an mma fighter does not have enough skill to beat a guy in a single discipline and can only win if he has an advantage at one thing or another over the other guy. If it stays up the pure boxer/kickboxer/muai thai (striker) wins. If it goes down and stays there, the wrestler/jiu jitsu guy wins. Pure artists have more skill than mixed ones. FACT.

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Lyle just wanted to point out that i hate WWE. >:mad And Punisher the whole thing about MMA fighters losing in any single discaplined match is just not true. Most mma fighters were or are a champion at a single discapline many were kickboxing champs, college wrestlers, naga winners ect. I guess the only art that isn't well represented is boxing and thats probably becouse there is a well established pro. org. where boxers are looking to make more money. I was one of the better TKD fighters for a while but there is no pro tkd and I have some talent in boxing and jujitsu so i just don't see the point in wasteing any of that talent. I know that you think tkd is good for nothing and that if i don't train in only boxing that my hands will be crap but i hope i can prove u wrong ;) 

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Those that were champs in single disciplines are probably best served there and are not equally as great in the other aspects. A kickboxing champ will keep it up as i doubt (desptie his cross training) he wants to test his luck on the ground. Same with a wrestling champ. I'm sure he's looking for a way to take it down as soon as possible so he doesn't have to try and hang with somebody who has an advantage over him standing up. I'm not saying boxing is the end all stand up style im just saying you're better served in a style (boxing/ kickboxing/ muai thai) where you can end the fight before you're taken into the other guys element.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Punisher136

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Those that were champs in single disciplines are probably best served there and are not equally as great in the other aspects. A kickboxing champ will keep it up as i doubt (desptie his cross training) he wants to test his luck on the ground. Same with a wrestling champ. I'm sure he's looking for a way to take it down as soon as possible so he doesn't have to try and hang with somebody who has an advantage over him standing up. I'm not saying boxing is the end all stand up style im just saying you're better served in a style (boxing/ kickboxing/ muai thai) where you can end the fight before you're taken into the other guys element.

[/quote]

ya your right that when you go into a fight you want to make the other guy fight your fight. Its kind of like Oscar training for Mosley when he fights him he probably doent want to keep the fight in close but mosley does want to get inside and throw fast combos. But its a good feeling when your training pays off and you can beat a guy standing or on the ground.