Lederman has it 6-3 GGG-Canelo
R10: GGG ....people think Canelo won this fight?
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Lederman has it 6-3 GGG-Canelo
R10: GGG ....people think Canelo won this fight?
R11: GGG ......he took,2/3rds of that round EASY
10-2-1 GGG-Canelo-1 even
People thought that was hard to judge? That was close? Who threw the most punches? GGG. Who landed the most? GGG. Who blocked or slipped the most? GGG.
GGG all day and twice on Sunday.
You're welcome everyone.
Sounded like RJJ and Kellerman got some GBP money....They were all over his ass.
i love the ozarks great showQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
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Originally Posted by walrus
Who knows how many people have thought that, and haven't had the balls to say it. It's Canelo the choirboy, so the tainted meat story must be true. He looked at the camera with his angelic face and the Commission only gave him 6 months. They passed that measure in the blink of an eye. Yes... Canelo's a lucky guy. Been watching the Netflix series Ozark lately, and you don't want to f*ck with the Mexican cartel. They got everybody in their pocket. DLH and Canelo have Vegas, the NSAC, and every judge available in theirs. F*ck Ginger.
@walrus
I was lucky. I had no HBO or even British commentary and so I really was just watching the action and seeing it as it was through my own eyes without anything to influence me. You seem to agree that GGG was up half way and then went on to start hurting Canelo as he really started to let loose with more than the jab with those power shots really starting to tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
For me early on it was more of a Barrera style beating Marquez with accurate solid jabs, then later more of a traditional outslugging of the man that cannot hit as hard.
HBO is a sham and it's a shame old Larry Merchant isn't there to set those other posers straight. Kellerman gets on my tits. I don't mean that we are in a relationship. He is probably much closer to Oscar. I just mean I find him very annoying.
Damn Lyle.... That's a bit lopsided
Kellerman is a total douche!
GGG did hitting and not getting hit better than Canelo plain and simple. When Canelo landed hard, a headshake is all he got from GGG. When GGG landed hard he hurt Canelo. Don't get me wrong Canelo showed guts but damn he sure as fuck didn't win that fight!
Talk to Canelo he was the one losing rounds!Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
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Originally Posted by El Kabong
Would you like to vote and make it official?
If I remember correctly, I think that was the most clear round for Canelo for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I agree. I had Canelo winning 2 early rounds and in the middle in the 7th too it looked as though the fight was tightening up somewhat. But GGG seemed to dig deep and separate them again down the stretch. Canelo obviously had his moments, but his output was lower and GGG was doing the damage then.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherIf I remember correctly, I think that was the most clear round for Canelo for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I cannot get over the bizarre argument that because GGG wanted Canelo to fight that somehow standing his ground eradicates who is doing most of the work. Andre Ward for instance makes that argument and I think it is a really dumb argument. You score a fight round by round and to say that fighter A did this and fighter B used his own plan B therefore he loses rounds is plainly ridiculous. I have heard Kellerman make the same argument. It's very poorly thought out thinking and unfortunately these people get to make the narrative.
Does not going to the ropes, despite being outlanded and being hit with the more hurtful shots really give you the decision? It's neither here nor there. James Toney could sit on the ropes all night, but it ends up being about are you landing more and landing more effectively than the other guy. You don't get bonus points for getting Toney off the ropes when he is still outlanding you in the middle too. It's a very silly argument. "GGG did not fight the full 12 'like a Mexican' therefore he lost" or "A draw is fair". Sure, a draw is better but most people still have GGG winning both fights. What does that even mean? Is adjudicating a fight now all about standing in the middle and going hell for leather and allowing plenty of hits to the head too? It's boxing and somewhere the scorecards have become increasingly irrelevant as it appears to be politics and then making excuses for it all to keep the cash cows happy. It's a farce.
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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
What did you think of Lyle's card, Ron?
Bias? Hasn't got a clue how to score? You can understand how Canelo won just 2 rounds?
Being the guy that I am, I'm gonna help out Miles with his poll here.
To the 21 GGG votes, I'm adding armin (mistake on his vote), walrus (ditto), Lyle, Hulk, Dia, and erik_corrales.
From the 7 Canelo votes, I'm subtracting armin and walrus.
So with 27 GGG votes, 5 Canelo votes, and 4 draws.... the real percentages are: GGG - 75%, Canelo - 14%, Draw - 11%
Pretty much similar to the landslide vote from the sportswriters.
Thank you, Tito. I do need help with the numbers as I am still trying to wrap my head around the logic of Andre Ward who also believes he is the Son of God which is likewise also very baffling. I know I am drifting into ecumenical territory there so i will leave it at that and just say that Andre Ward is a kind of Canelo too.
Well you put out there a very legitimate poll and I just wanted to make sure all votes were counted.
BTW... no Russian meddling here.
@TitoFan , I voted....I mean WOW...some close rounds, but how anyone could not have GGG winning it makes me wonder what they actually know about boxing. Canelo plods forward, GGG lands the better punches, takes Canelo's shots better, and his defense is underrated I guess being nonchalant about the blocking and slipping of punches hurt GGG because he certainly from a pure boxing standpoint did better (not that it was a sweet science fight). When Canelo moved backwards GGG still was the guy in control of the fight landing harder, hurting Canelo, and again GGG did a better job with his defense....Canelo didn't dodge, slip, or block all that often.
Sports Illustrated gave round 7 to GGG, Harold Lederman gave it to GGG....I've seen others give it to Canelo.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherIf I remember correctly, I think that was the most clear round for Canelo for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
For me coming into this fight just like the last one GGG is THE Champ and Canelo didn't take it from him and also GGG didn't give it to Canelo.....GGG has fought better, but no way no how is he the loser of that fight.
Ffs! I’m fucking raging!got a sneaky hour away to watch it on you tube and I had it as a draw. Then I realised I was watching the first fucking fight!!! ;D;D;DQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong@TitoFan , I voted....I mean WOW...some close rounds, but how anyone could not have GGG winning it makes me wonder what they actually know about boxing. Canelo plods forward, GGG lands the better punches, takes Canelo's shots better, and his defense is underrated I guess being nonchalant about the blocking and slipping of punches hurt GGG because he certainly from a pure boxing standpoint did better (not that it was a sweet science fight). When Canelo moved backwards GGG still was the guy in control of the fight landing harder, hurting Canelo, and again GGG did a better job with his defense....Canelo didn't dodge, slip, or block all that often.
Sports Illustrated gave round 7 to GGG, Harold Lederman gave it to GGG....I've seen others give it to Canelo.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherIf I remember correctly, I think that was the most clear round for Canelo for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
For me coming into this fight just like the last one GGG is THE Champ and Canelo didn't take it from him and also GGG didn't give it to Canelo.....GGG has fought better, but no way no how is he the loser of that fight.
Link anywhere please?
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Originally Posted by Primo CarneraFfs! I’m fucking raging!got a sneaky hour away to watch it on you tube and I had it as a draw. Then I realised I was watching the first fucking fight!!! ;D;D;DQuote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong@TitoFan , I voted....I mean WOW...some close rounds, but how anyone could not have GGG winning it makes me wonder what they actually know about boxing. Canelo plods forward, GGG lands the better punches, takes Canelo's shots better, and his defense is underrated I guess being nonchalant about the blocking and slipping of punches hurt GGG because he certainly from a pure boxing standpoint did better (not that it was a sweet science fight). When Canelo moved backwards GGG still was the guy in control of the fight landing harder, hurting Canelo, and again GGG did a better job with his defense....Canelo didn't dodge, slip, or block all that often.
Sports Illustrated gave round 7 to GGG, Harold Lederman gave it to GGG....I've seen others give it to Canelo.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherIf I remember correctly, I think that was the most clear round for Canelo for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
For me coming into this fight just like the last one GGG is THE Champ and Canelo didn't take it from him and also GGG didn't give it to Canelo.....GGG has fought better, but no way no how is he the loser of that fight.
Link anywhere please?
hahahahaha you daft cunt ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIZ_g5WoAOs
So, finally got to see it. Personally I had Canelo winning it by 2 rounds. I have to say, I could watch it again tomorrow and see it very differently.
I didn’t want to see it that way, because I don’t like the advantages that Canelo and GBP get,so it was very much with gritted teeth that I gave it him. Let’s be honest, the cunt should still be banned really.
I still reckon that they had judges on the payroll as a belt and braces job, but imho the decision was right.
Fair play to you, even if you are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
For the record, and I’m not defending Kellerman, he did clarify the next day that when he was saying Canelo was winning the perception of the fight he didn’t mean he was actually winning the fight. He meant there is the perception, and the scoring, that they are separate. Like you could control how the fight is being fought but still lose. You still have to actually do the better work. I thought Canelo did control how it was being fought, he did force GGG to back up almost the whole fight. But I didn’t have Canelo win, so I get where he is coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI agree. I had Canelo winning 2 early rounds and in the middle in the 7th too it looked as though the fight was tightening up somewhat. But GGG seemed to dig deep and separate them again down the stretch. Canelo obviously had his moments, but his output was lower and GGG was doing the damage then.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherIf I remember correctly, I think that was the most clear round for Canelo for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I cannot get over the bizarre argument that because GGG wanted Canelo to fight that somehow standing his ground eradicates who is doing most of the work. Andre Ward for instance makes that argument and I think it is a really dumb argument. You score a fight round by round and to say that fighter A did this and fighter B used his own plan B therefore he loses rounds is plainly ridiculous. I have heard Kellerman make the same argument. It's very poorly thought out thinking and unfortunately these people get to make the narrative.
I said. I didn’t have a problem with any of it except I can’t see giving GGG round 7. To me 2, 6, 7 were clear Canelo rounds. 4, 8, 9, 10, 11 were clear GGG rounds(possibly 5 as well, can’t recall how I had 5 but I feel like it was part of the middle portion where Canelo was really moving him, can’t be sure because as I said I don’t recall it well)Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
What did you think of Lyle's card, Ron?
Bias? Hasn't got a clue how to score? You can understand how Canelo won just 2 rounds?
If I have it to anyone it would be GGG. I just think the notion it was a robbery is silly. There were swing rounds. And I think if someone says it wasn’t a robbery then says GGG needed a KO to win they’re being disingenuous. Even by the judges cards he only needed 2 rounds scored differently. That doesn’t seem like “he needed a knockout”, the judges had a close fight close. Did they get it wrong, by my card they did.
I’ve spoken with 5 professional fighters since the fight. 3 had Canelo, 1 had GGG and 1 said GGG was robbed. I only see one of them as truly wrong, the guy that says robbery.(technically he is not a fighter but I put a trainer in the professional category, I should have just said 4 fighters and a trainer)
Max Kellerman is right about perception, it's why it's impossible to score a fight without bias, even if you claim to be neutral.
For instance - the main argument for Canelo winning has been "he out GGG'd GGG," "Canelo came forward." Now because Canelo surprised us by fighting the fight he fought we give him credit for something which shouldn't be a factor in determining the winner of a round. Just because Canelo had "some" success doesn't mean he had "more" success than Golovkin.
A better example - The underdog is getting whupped by the champion 9 rounds to nil, he has a good 60 seconds, lands some eye catching punches, however, the other 2 minutes have followed the exact same pattern as the previous rounds, so what happens? We often give a sympathy round to the underdog as it's not going to affect the result. In effect we award him for not getting beat as bad, instead of actually winning.
Official BrocktonBlockbust Scorecard
Rd 1 Canelo
Rd 2 Canelo REALLY busting up GGG, ice pack straight on ggg right eye in corner
Rd 3 EVEN
Rd 4 GGG really dominated last 2 mins
Rd. 5. GGG by a hair
Rd. 6. Canelo teeing off, hard shots, more effective to the body, trumps GGG jabs
Rd 7. Canelo ***SHREDDING*** ggg, fuck!!!
After 7:
Canelo 68-66
Bedtime
Rd 8 Canelo strafed GGG with stinging shotsQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Rd 9 Canelo by a hair
Rd 10. GGG
Rd 11. GGG
Rd 12. GGG
Canelo 115-114
Fair play to you taking the time out and sharing your score. You still know f@#k all about boxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustRd 8 Canelo strafed GGG with stinging shotsQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Rd 9 Canelo by a hair
Rd 10. GGG
Rd 11. GGG
Rd 12. GGG
Canelo 115-114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonFor the record, and I’m not defending Kellerman, he did clarify the next day that when he was saying Canelo was winning the perception of the fight he didn’t mean he was actually winning the fight. He meant there is the perception, and the scoring, that they are separate. Like you could control how the fight is being fought but still lose. You still have to actually do the better work. I thought Canelo did control how it was being fought, he did force GGG to back up almost the whole fight. But I didn’t have Canelo win, so I get where he is coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by GandalfI agree. I had Canelo winning 2 early rounds and in the middle in the 7th too it looked as though the fight was tightening up somewhat. But GGG seemed to dig deep and separate them again down the stretch. Canelo obviously had his moments, but his output was lower and GGG was doing the damage then.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherIf I remember correctly, I think that was the most clear round for Canelo for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I cannot get over the bizarre argument that because GGG wanted Canelo to fight that somehow standing his ground eradicates who is doing most of the work. Andre Ward for instance makes that argument and I think it is a really dumb argument. You score a fight round by round and to say that fighter A did this and fighter B used his own plan B therefore he loses rounds is plainly ridiculous. I have heard Kellerman make the same argument. It's very poorly thought out thinking and unfortunately these people get to make the narrative.
Commentators tend to flop all over themselves trying to be eloquent, and all they do is muddle up the waters. WTF is all the nonsense about "winning the perception" or "winning the story" of the fight. I'd say FFS just score the fight according to your own personal judgment and quit trying to be philosophical about it.
Winning the perception is a very relevant term Tito. it might not technically be part of the scoring but everything starts with our perception and Canelo shots were flashier and they made it louder kind of smacking sound and they were faster so therefore they were just more flashy and that is also why he won the perception.
So maybe we should have two sets of judges? One for the actual score and one for the perception score?
See what I mean?Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Flashier and punches making louder sounds and faster? WTF are you on about?
Score the fight, round by round and who does better in it.
Not who is chasing who, or what they said before the fight, but who won the round.
Total them up and you will get only one winner and that will be Triple G.
But master that is only in your slanted perception. I don't care what they said before the fight either. But Canelo was taking the fight to Triple G for 90% of their time in that ring and that counts as effective aggression. that also helped him win the fight. Think about it he ran for the whole first fight and still it was a draw. So in this fight he backed up the so-called power puncher who was a much bigger man in stature and he backed him up all night long and landed stinging overhand rights and scores of wicked and I mean Wicked body shots some of those body shots were really hurting Triple G but he did not show it. I think canelo's body shots clearly 1 him to fight those were really hard shots and they were really hurting Triple G
Just because Canelo was going forward does not make him the winner.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Golovkin was jabbing and scoring throughout the fight to win the rounds.
OH That irked the shit out of me..."Canelo is winning the story of the fight".....what the what?!?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
In the ring it doesn't matter who is going forward or going backward, it's about landing punches and not having punches land on you. Canelo was dedicated to landing to the body....not all of those punches landed clean, flush, or pierced the guard. Max Kellerman was all "Sometimes judges don't score body punches the same as headshots" well I'd say sometimes if you block body punches you don't get credit for them not landing.
Going forward or backward on it's own doesn't mean winning a fight or losing a fight. Fights can be won or lost both ways.
Kellerman is just a joke...his shit on ESPN is just God awful and his boxing commentary is awful now as well.
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Originally Posted by El KabongOH That irked the shit out of me..."Canelo is winning the story of the fight".....what the what?!?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
In the ring it doesn't matter who is going forward or going backward, it's about landing punches and not having punches land on you. Canelo was dedicated to landing to the body....not all of those punches landed clean, flush, or pierced the guard. Max Kellerman was all "Sometimes judges don't score body punches the same as headshots" well I'd say sometimes if you block body punches you don't get credit for them not landing.
Going forward or backward on it's own doesn't mean winning a fight or losing a fight. Fights can be won or lost both ways.
Kellerman is just a joke...his shit on ESPN is just God awful and his boxing commentary is awful now as well.
Kellerman is from the Lampley school of idol worship. Kneepads and throat lozenges.
Kellerman was bad but RJJ was just as bad. Ever since his dramatic slide down the rankings I think Roy takes extra pleasure in seeing established champions get beaten so it takes the shine and focus off of what happened to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
While GGG was fighting, landing hard clean punches, Max Kellerman and RJJ were hyping up Canelo, it's undeniable. Now it's one thing to be like "Wow Canelo is taking some clean shots and it's impressive his chin is holding up" but it's quite another to be all "(GGG lands hard) OMG! Canelo is giving back better than he's taking, he's throwing combinations OMG! He's walking forward!!!!"
Yeah Tex Cobb walked forward vs a bunch of guys and got his ass beat. Foreman walked forward for the majority of the Rumble In The Jungle. Frazier walked forward in the rematch and Thrilla in Manila and he lost both of those. Ray Robinson was backing up when he clocked Gene Fullmer. JMM was backing up when he caught Pac. Floyd was backing up when he caught Hatton.
Boxing is about landing punches and not having punches land on you fullstop
Boxing is about being the dominant force and Canelo was the dominant Force from start to finish
I 100% percent agree with that Canelo won the story of the fight and won the perception of the fight I 100% agree with that
Canelo's punches sounded harder and were much faster
Canelo through in combinations
Canelo destroyed the body
I saw Canelo throw sometimes three and four straight right hands in a row one two three four in a row flush on Triple G is left jaw
Canelo whacked the SHIT out of Triple G. Look at the state of his face
Look at the state of yoursQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust