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Looks like trump is off to see another grand jury, about the riots this time, he says he has to report there within four days, it's a good thing all these kind people donate money to the super successful billionaire man of the people so he can afford to pay lawyers to delay as much as possible.
Yeah, this guy got a bit of media coverage after he made a documentary recently. Long story short he's built a career on attacking gays and trans people for the last few years and now he's made a documentary bashing trans people. He describes himself, in his own words, as a theocratic fascist so probably not going to be the best person to make a fair and balanced documentary on this issue. You can't tell from his words or his actions but this guy is a Christian and he appears to have some standing with religious/traditional types and his whole thing is just focusing hate on a tiny unfortunate minority of people.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
"Marginalized and vulnerable minority of people who are currently on the end of a vicious hate campaign from the country's conservative movement."
Those words have stuck around in my mind for a little while. ;D :cool:
Sounds great. :D
Here's another take on that "vulnerable minority."
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Anyway from your prvious post:
Should they have the same rights as everybody else? Absolutely. Should they be allowed to dictate what my kids are taught in elementary school besides the traditional subject matter? Hell no. Should they be allowed to take kids to transgender clinics when little boys say they feel like girls at 5 years old? Or when a girl plays with boys or like boys? Something formerly known as a tomboy? Hell no. Should they be allowed to invade women's sports and beauty pageants? Hell no. Should they be allowed to demand a rewrite of classic works, like superhero comic books and other such things? Hell no.
Some facts.
Local school boards decide school curriculums by democratic vote and they're democratically elected. So the majority decides both the composition of school boards and the resultant curriculum. This means that the pushy minority have no say in what's taught in schools due to the majority having more votes than the tiny minority.
I'm not aware of any trans people grabbing kids and taking them to clinics. This would typically be something that would be a private medical decision involving the family and their doctors. Perhaps you have examples of the thing you're claiming here that actually happened in real life?
Trans people have been participating in sports in America for decades. Who knew?* Currently there are about thirty trans athletes at any level in America. This doesn't seem to rise to the level of a national emergency. It's only become an issue since it started getting coverage in conservative media. At worst it's something which will cause minor issues and eventually resolve itself after the conservative hate generation machine has moved onto new targets.
And we've already discussed books and similar being changed. These changes are being made by the owners of the artistic works because they can see the way the wind is blowing. It's down to business. You couldn't persuade the owners of the commercial property to do it before the recent sea change in public attitudes and now you can't persude them not to. It's down to dollars and nothing else.
Seems like a lot of overblown nonsense ginned up by the conservative media outrage machine. Nothing of any actual substance here.
*Like I said, the whole trans thing is just an explosion of hate being amplified by conservative media right now. Look at the Bud Light thing. Budweiser do some advertising thing with a trans person and get boycotted. Imagine of they'd done something with a gay person. There'd be no boycott. It would be a massive own goal for the right to try that. So what's the difference with a trans person? The difference is they haven't been a significant political issue until recently. The right spent decades demonising gays and doing everything they could to marginalise and attack them. Gay people couldn't even get married in America until a few years ago. Now the needle has moved significantly and there's no mileage for the right in attacking gays. Trans people however are an ideal hate target to the point where they can even get away with this kind of boycott. But it's no different to the gay hate.
By the way, here's how well accepted gay people are in society today after decades of fighting for their rights and acceptance:
“You’re going to hell.”“My parents say I can’t talk to you because you’re gay.”
“I bet if I kissed you, you’d like it.”
“You don’t deserve to live.”
“My parents say you’re a pervert and if I beat you up, they wouldn’t care.”
“You should kill yourself.”
“Die!”
Those are some of the things that Tennessee mom Lindsey Patrick-Wright says were shouted at her sixth grader, Pippy, at West Wilson Middle School in Mount Juliet this year. Patrick-Wright recited the list during the public comment session at the Wilson County School Board meeting over the weekend. She later told the Daily Beast she left out one comment.
“My mom says it’s Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!”
Patrick-Wright says Pippy replied, “Well, I’m a lesbian, so I don’t want Adam or Steve.”
Patrick-Wright reports that Pippy first came out to her family as a lesbian in the fourth grade. Six months later later, Pippy asked to be referred to by the pronouns she and they.
[...]
The mother estimated that over the school year, Pippy came home from school upset “at least 30 percent of the days, if not 50.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/tennes...assed?ref=home
Now I'm a hundred percent sure you're totally down with the gays. You find this as repugnant as I do. But imagine if that was your kid and they're unhappy half the time. And that's before adolescence. Once they get to that age gay and trans kids have a hugely increased chance of killing themselves or drug use or dropping out or general bad stuff. It turns out acceptance by your fellow human beings counts for a lot in life. Maybe they have a justified reason to be pushy eh. If I had a gay or trans kid this age and the prospect of this ahead of me I'd be pushy too.
And this is gay kids. They've got equal rights now and are accepted according to your standard issue GOP politician. In the same way that racism is in the past i suppose.
Anyway, the idea that this tiny marginalised very very vulnerable minority is a threat to you is just nuts. It's amazing how this group of people, currently under relentless attack as inhuman freaks by a large proportion of the population can be jujutsued by people like the theocratic fascist into a tyrannical group enforcing their will on real god fearing Americans. I thought antifa was bad. A couple of thousand maybe at best pasty faced speed freak anarchists who hate all political parties were tranformed by conservative media into this huge army of Democratic party shock troops and terrified those same god fearing Americans:
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-...howed-n1226681
Just look at that idiot with the gun. I thought the bedwetting can't get worse than this but I was wrong. Now it's militant trannies who represent an existential threat to America. There is nothing that you people can't be persuaded to wet the bed over. This place is supposed to be the home of the brave ffs. Like Hunter S Thompson said, it's all fear and loathing.
https://i.ibb.co/YB8y3kb/HST-764-1o2...al-764-400.jpg
"Built a career on attacking gays and trans people..." Hmm... ok. Seems to me his beef is strictly with the trans people, but ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
And again with the "tiny unfortunate minority of people" description. Oh boy... I guess we see things totally differently.
From where I sit I didn't see Walsh actually "attacking" anybody in his documentary. What I saw was an insistence on holding people's feet to the fire regarding what should be a straightforward question and answer.
People who engage in gobbledygook nonsense don't have to be pushed very hard before they fumble all over themselves, and proceed to get mad and take off the mic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
The school issue is a dynamic, ever-changing one... and both you and I know it. Let's not understate the impact and sway of the LGBTQXYZ on school matter decisions. Why is it that drag queen story book hour is being done at more than a few elementary schools whether parents like it or not? Why is it that straight moms feel intimidated, and feel the need to talk incognito on interviews protesting school policies... for fear of reprisals and abuse? Does this sound like the "tiny, unfortunate minority" you're describing? We must be looking at two different groups. School boards answer to government officials. Somewhere down the line, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that pressure can, and is exerted by the powers that be, for school boards to fall in line and conform to the (cough) "new normal."
"Trans people grabbing kids and taking them to clinics..." DON'T misquote me or misrepresent me. That's a ridiculous statement on your part. It's weak, gullible, lazy, misguided parents who are dragging their tiny, unfortunate kids to gender clinics at the first utterance of anything that sounds like gender confusion. So, sorry... I have no examples of something I never said. But since we're on the subject, physicians at gender clinics are only too eager to accept this new breed of patient. A boom, if you will, to this area of medicine. Instead of the traditional, centuries-old practices of tender, loving care and advice to a growing child... now we have parents rushing 4-year old Tommy... for whatever fucking reason... to a gender clinic waiting with open arms. You want to talk about money-driven tendencies? Here's one. If you don't see anything wrong with this, then I guess we'll just agree to disagree.
Books, movies, and other works of art are falling to the same pressures every other aspect of society is falling. Whether it's money or not... the end result is the same. The LGBTQXYZ Gestapo is making sure to implement revisionist history on every comic book... every superhero... every story... every movie... everywhere where there is an opportunity to "right all the wrongs of the past." The "tiny, unfortunate minority" sure does have some pull. They can't make up their own original comic book heroes. They insist on making Superman a transgender.
"Overblown nonsense ginned up by the conservative media outrage machine..." Here... let me reword that for you. Predictable backlash against the pushy non-binary, gender-assigning, women-sports-invading, "tiny, unfortunate minority" that has taken over even mainstream media. Make no mistake. Google around and you'll find every media outlet (left and center) out there having adopted the LGBTQXYZ language. "Gender is a social construct." "You were assigned a gender at birth." "Gender is non-binary." "There are 237 genders." "Gender is fluid. I can be a deer today, and a tree tomorrow." "Kids need to be taught the new gender language and doctrine from the time they can walk." "There's nothing wrong with men competing against women in sports, as long as the man identifies as a woman." So much bullshit, it's tough to know where to start. Matt Walsh is a hero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
"Like I said, the whole trans thing is just an explosion of hate being amplified by conservative media right now." Why don't we reword this one also? Forget conservative media. You've got real people, who have no issues with gays, but who have finally become fed up with having their rights, their elementary schools, their language, their women's sports, their very fabric of society... invaded by a bunch of, what was it? "tiny, unfortunate minority." I don't live or die by the media. I've been aware of media bias for more years than I care to remember. I make my own opinions. And my opinions are that this "tiny unfortunate minority" has succeeded in ramming their doctrine down the collective throats of society. You're right. Had the Bud Light ad spokesperson been a gay person, there would've been no such uproar. But let me make one thing clear... and for that I'll start a new paragraph.
I never demonized gays. I don't believe it's normal behavior for a man to be sexually attracted to another man... but that's as far as it goes. What a man/woman decides to do with their own lives and bodies, is nobody else's business but their own. And back in the days of fighting for gay rights... gays were fighting for the right not to be discriminated against. In jobs, education, salary, housing, etc, etc, etc. Nothing in their fight and struggles affected anybody else. No public bathroom laws were being changed. No new fucking pronouns were being invented. No list of 352 genders was being invented. No efforts were made by gays to push gay education on elementary school kids whose parents don't even talk to them about sex until they're old enough to know. Gays were about their OWN rights. Not infringing on the rights of others.
(I've been "character limited" so I'll continue on the next post).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
"You people"??
You see... that's your problem right there. You're doing the same thing pro-Trump wackos do, in lumping everyone who doesn't kiss Trump's feet into their TDS syndrome category. Except in this case, you're coming from the other direction. "You people" is offensive. You're making assumptions about me I haven't given you the liberty to make. I'm not a right-wing extremist. I'm not a conservative media fan/Minion. I'm nothing of what you're trying to pigeonhole me to be.
I am a heterosexual male and family man with kids and a family... who believes firmly that where your rights end, mine begin. I don't believe "tiny unfortunate minorities" should be allowed to continue trampling/ shitting all over mainstream society to get whatever they want.
They want to be in beauty pageants? Let them form their own. I don't follow pageants... but it's beyond ridiculous to have transgenders invading Miss Universe. Make your own damn pageants. Same with sports. Trans basketball... trans swimming... trans rugby... trans boxing. Knock yourselves out (literally).
DON'T warn or fire teachers because they won't call someone "they." Show some backbone. Oh by the way... those are the same school boards you said the trans can't influence. Yeah, right.
[QUOTE=TitoFan;1633527]This is the problem with dashing a post off in a few minutes and hitting send. I then edited it for a few minutes and still missed bits. Obviously in parts of the country there are a majority of people who are protective of this tiny vulnerable minority and in other parts you have the majority who are not so protective. I was talking about Puerto Rico and your case in particular where people are socially conservative and saying you have nothing to worry about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
As far as misrepresenting what you wrote, here's what you wrote:
Should they have the same rights as everybody else? Absolutely. Should they be allowed to dictate what my kids are taught in elementary school besides the traditional subject matter? Hell no. Should they be allowed to take kids to transgender clinics when little boys say they feel like girls at 5 years old? Or when a girl plays with boys or like boys? Something formerly known as a tomboy? Hell no. Should they be allowed to invade women's sports and beauty pageants? Hell no. Should they be allowed to demand a rewrite of classic works, like superhero comic books and other such things? Hell no.
You wrote that trans people are taking kids to sex change clinics. You have no evidence of that at all and it's none of your business what private medical decisions families make with their doctors. Instead of these people being "weak" maybe they've actually studied the whole thing and taken adivce from experts instead of just having a visceral reaction about it and lashing out from a position of ignorance. Other than than you seem to be terrified of tranny swimmers and intellectual property owners making business decisions. None of this stuff is particularly important and the sports stuff has been going on for decades without anybody being too bothered. It'll quietly resolve itself without too much trouble.
And as far as gay rights go the whole history of gay rights is the same thing as is going on with trans rights now. There was a significant amount of outright hate directed at gay people, conservatives with the courage of their convictions came out and said gay people were all going to hell or should all be executed and so on. But the vast majority of it was couched in the exact same terms you're using about trans rights affecting your own rights. Back in the day it was all about how gays were causing the destruction of the traditional family, they were hugely powerful politically and crushing traditional conservatism and so on. An example or two:
U.S. Rep. William Dannemeyer (R-Calif.) publishes a landmark anti-gay tome, Shadow in the Land: Homosexuality in America. Calling lesbians and gay men "the ultimate enemy," Dannemeyer accuses straight people of "surrendering to this growing army without a shot," and predicts gay rights will "plunge our people, and indeed the entire West, into a dark night of the soul that could last hundreds of years."
At the Republican National Convention in Houston, Pat Buchanan famously declares in a prime time speech, "There is a culture war going on in our country for the soul of America." Cheering audience members wave signs reading "Family Rights Forever, 'Gay' Rights Never."
President Clinton's proposal to lift the ban on openly gay military personnel sends anti-gay activists into action, shutting down phone lines to Congress with hundreds of thousands of calls in protest. "Honestly," asks D. James Kennedy in a fundraising letter for Coral Ridge Ministries, "would you want your son, daughter, or grandchild sharing a shower, foxhole, or blood with a homosexual?"
The Cobb County (Ga.) Commission passes a resolution calling homosexuality "incompatible with the standards to which this community subscribes." Organizer Gordon Wysong declares, "We should blame them for every social problem in America."
More than 40 fundamentalist groups, led by Focus on the Family, hold a summit in Colorado to coordinate a "special rights" argument to oppose gay rights. This strategy is also promoted by the Traditional Values Coalition's "Gay Rights, Special Rights," a 40-minute video claiming gay rights will erode the civil rights of African Americans.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...-movement-1977
That's just a few examples from the early nineties. Then you had the whole battle over gay marriage which was sold specifically as destroying the traditional marriage and the rights of American families. They're still using the argument about rights today to allow bigotry and discrimination to continue. Last year the right constructed a bullshit lawsuit over some Christian website designer refusing to do a gay wedding website. It turned out the entire case was bullshit, the people named in the case were neither gay or getting married or had asked her to make a website but the Supreme Court heard the case and ruled in favour of the website designer.
The bottom line with all this is that people on the right see profit and advantage in this issue and it's being pushed as a huge national issue by people trying to use it for profit and electoral advantage. Almost all of it is either trivial stuff, unrelated business decisions or private medical stuff, an issue conservatives used to feel very strongly about but now there's an issue they can take advantage of have abandoned their beliefs about private family decisions in this instance. The net effect of all this sturm und drang is that trans kids, a tiny and vulnerable minority, are being demonised and are having their lives severely impacted along with their families, by the explosion of bigotry and hatred being directed at them. It's a horrible thing to see. It couldn't be done to gay people so explicitly anymore, it can't be done to black people anymore but there's so much hatred out there that when it finds a way to express itself it just becomes this horrible spectacle.
https://i.ibb.co/0rvMfsh/elizabeth-e...he-hostile.jpg
White people outrages at their right not to be educated with black people being taken away
Fifty years from now when the people terrified and furious over nothing at all look back at the current trans bigotry a lot of them will realise it was not an edifying episode in their lives. Some of them will still have the hatred and the bigotry and be proud of what they did. Being manipulated by people out for profit and political advantage to cause so much despair and damage to these poor unfortunate people is going to be nothing to be proud of.
When you refer to "trans kids"... what exactly do you mean? If we begin from there, our basic differences come up to the surface right away. I'm of the belief that kids do not have the mental or emotional capacity to decide whether they're gay or not... much less decide that they're of another gender. From the beginning of time, you've had girls who like to play cowboys and indians... or with toy soldiers... or with toy cars... or get muddy playing with frogs... or climb trees. Traditionally, parents have left them alone to their own development and preferences until... lo and behold... the little girl grows up and starts liking boys, and dresses, and dancing. Maybe she's into sports and decides to be a professional basketball or soccer player. But she's a biological woman. End of story. Might she decide she's gay? Certainly. At an age where sexual preferences begin to arise.
So to me... the very idea of "trans kids" is downright nonsense.
You wrote about Puerto Rico being socially conservative. While that is generally true, Stateside tendencies some across the ocean with a certain lag time. Which means a lot of trans ideologies have already made their way over here.
Here's something very KEY that must be said:
You discuss things from a "left vs right" standpoint. You express things from that macro view. Nothing wrong with that. But I discuss things from a strictly individual basis. And from the basis of people who might not conform to the "left vs right" picture you like to paint. Gays and trans may have been the same to conservative extremists, who have always waged hate campaigns against both groups. That is NOT my case. Once again, at the risk of being repetitive... The basic, key difference between gays and trans is that gays have always fought for their OWN rights, without infringing on the rights of others. If you want to argue that hate mongers from the right claimed that gays were destroying the fiber of society... go ahead. That is not my case, and I will not be lumped in with any group.
Trans, on the other hand, do and ARE infringing on other people's rights. The right to hold women events with only biological women. Your opinion of the impact on women's sports is totally subjective and debatable. If you want to poke fun that I'm "terrified of tranny swimmers", go ahead. I've seen enough news coverage to know it's a problem. Maybe to you it isn't. To many thousands of people it is. Remember... I remember Beanz telling me a few years ago that I was worrying about a blip in society and was inventing an invisible enemy. That was about a few tens of thousands of gender clinics ago. These movements gain speed inexorably. Slowly but surely. Making footholds little by little. Anyone who doesn't see where this is going has been asleep longer than Rip Van Winkle.
I'll continue to refer to your use of "tiny unfortunate minority" as a huge misrepresentation of what is actually a severely pushy movement. Yes... it's a minority. One that wields an enormous and disproportionate amount of power. They got the POTUS's ear... a whole political Party behind them... and an out-to-lunch VP explaining what her pronouns are. :vd:
There is NO "tiny unfortunate minority." That was the gays back then. That was the downtrodden blacks back in the civil rights movement days. Maybe not "tiny", but VERY unfortunate.
I know we'll never agree. You're as left-leaning, liberal as they come. Me... I like and dislike aspect of both sides. I'm a Trump hater... while at the same time criticizing many of Biden's weaknesses. I hate the choice America has been given. But such is life. It's why other world powers are quietly passing the USA by on the way to becoming the NEW world powers.
You frame things to your convenience. You're from the school of thought that trans are like the gays of the '80s and '90s... who are like the blacks of the '50s and '60's.
NO. Blacks were BORN black... and all the token affirmative action bullshit, brand renaming, and ridiculous reparations talk hasn't solved the real problems blacks face and will always face in the U.S., which moves at the speed of a bloated elephant in meaningful racial reform. Gays... I've already established for the umpteenth time why gays cannot be compared to the trans.
Hell... even gays are beginning to rebel against the ridiculousness of the trans/queer movement. I predict the acronym will be split sometime in the future.
The movement will end when society at large finally realizes that this fringe group has severely overstated it's victimhood and is exerting a tremendously disproportionate pressure/influence based on this melodrama
I like this post because it could be about anyone, it's also a good description of the tough men who were very upset with the little mermaid amongst other children's films and had to shoot some bud light cans.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmerqI like this post because it could be about anyone, it's also a good description of the tough men who were very upset with the little mermaid amongst other children's films and had to shoot some bud light cans.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell
The little who? Oh, I doubt there's much uproar about that... except for maybe with the Mermaid Sisterhood Actresses Guild.
I think the real outrage is being reserved for the remake of Snow White, that racist, achondroplasiaphobic, right-wing propaganda story... skillfully marketed as a harmless children's classic in the 1930's, by that wretched monster Walt Disney.
Luckily for us... it's in the process of being replaced by a politically correct version... where Snow White isn't white at all, but a darker skinned Hispanic... her companions aren't height-challenged at all (can't say "dwarfs"), as well as being highly diverse in nature.
With seven of these companions, I imagine the revisionists will go to town in ensuring that all manner of inclusivity is involved. I'm not sure of the details... but there's sure to be at least one or two transgenders. Me... I'd include one of them who identifies as a deer, or something befitting the forest they all live in.
A gender fluid companion might come in handy... lest an audience group from the queer population sector demand representation of a specific gender from within the list of dozens of genders out there.
My mistake, snow white it is! Anyway it is fairly amusing that the trial date for the documents case has been announced and movement in a few of Trump's other cases too but the thread is about rainbows lollipops and snow white?... Don't forget to be outraged by barbie too!
Surprising as it may seem to you. Gay people are born gay. It's not a choice or decision they choose as an adult or adolescent. Gays were born GAY.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
And how the absolute FUCK 😇 is this in the Trump thread😆 AND..... Where is that abandoned tin mine you mentioned near Calstock with the good ale you promised? 🙈🙉🙊A few pints and we'll throw Rich down there😈Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanzSurprising as it may seem to you. Gay people are born gay. It's not a choice or decision they choose as an adult or adolescent. Gays were born GAY.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Ha! You can't throw a Welsh man down a mine. That would be like bundling you into an Indian restaurant. Happy as a pig 🐽 in poop.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBellAnd how the absolute FUCK 😇 is this in the Trump thread😆 AND..... Where is that abandoned tin mine you mentioned near Calstock with the good ale you promised? 🙈🙉🙊A few pints and we'll throw Rich down there😈Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanzSurprising as it may seem to you. Gay people are born gay. It's not a choice or decision they choose as an adult or adolescent. Gays were born GAY.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmerq
Is droning on and on about Teflon Don's legal saga your thing? It's the boxing equivalent of wringing your hands about lousy judging, only to have it happen again and again and again.
We all know that Teflon Don is going to emerge out of all these "soap-opera-worthy" machinations unscathed... so what's the point? But whatever floats your boat.
What I do notice though, is yet another liberal, bleeding heart, live-and-let-live, "panties-in-a-bunch" knee jerk reaction to any criticism of the Rainbow World Gestapo.
So sorry. Didn't mean to touch a nerve. :D
I forgot that where you come from is also up there in the forefront of all things gender related. ;)
Criticizing Disney remakes offends you does it? My bad, dude.
You mentioned Barbie. Would you LIKE for me to be offended by Barbie? :D Honestly, I haven't watched it. I was over in the other theater, watching Sound of Freedom.
So you'll have to give me the lowdown on the Barbie movie, since you're obviously so obsessed by it. Then I'll let you know whether I'm gonna be "outraged" by it.
This is a thread, sport. (I hope "sport" wasn't offensive). It flows back and forth. If it wanders into the LGBTQXYZ realm, mainly because of politics, then so be it. If any of the mods find it offensive, they're free to move the posts somewhere else.
I suspect we'll be back to droning on and on about what we would LIKE to happen to Trump (but never will) soon enough.