Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
But this aint about who's better!!
this is about accomplishments.
If you want to get technical Jones started out a 54 pounder that dominated 160, beat who they put on him at 68, and dominated 175 and won a heavyweight title.
Hopkins started out a light heavyweight. and fought at middleweight all those years setting records.
Jones is the only in the last 100 years Middleweight Champion to win a world heavyweight championship. And he is the only super middleweight to do it ;)
Hopkins is the 3rd Middleweight to win the Light Heavyweight title moving up, something Ray Robinson couldn't do.
Difference is Hopkins skipped 168 and Roy stayed and fought there.
This aint about who's better, I would say that Roy and Hopkins are tied for the number 1 p4p of this era. No one could outdue the other in accomplishments unless it was straight title defenses record which was hopkins.
I tie them at p4p number 1
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
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Originally Posted by babyboNe
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by ImRipped
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by babyboNe
bernard hopkins should most definatly be rank higher then roy jones...yes bhop lost to roy...lets look at what happen afterwards...roy division hoops hand picking oppenents...while bhop built a legacy in the middleweight division...bhop sat at his kingdom and all who came to take it from him he face...ROY went on a journey going on to fight abc champions in different division...prime or not...ROY was finally hit flush and he was knock out...and that was the end of roy...bhop reaching 40 loses twice by close fights to taylor...goes on to challenge tarver the man who banish roy...and bhop dominates tarver at the age of 41 at roy's lightheavy division...
its a matter of who survive longer...at 41 bhop still has never been hurt or knock out...between the two of them bhop outlast roy...bhops technically rough and tough style against roys speed and atletic style in 12 rounds or in a career speed and atleticism will decrease more...while technic and inner toughness will always remain if not increase...
I have a question though...
list me someone alike trinidad and oscar that roy has fought? (note bhop k.o both tito and oscar)
(tarver glen k.o jones both lost to bhop)
weren't tito and oscar both smaller than bhop? and didn't roy beat the S*** out of pound for pound king James toney? james toney is better than everyone hopkins ever faced...except roy of course...
name one fighter that benard hopkins beat that was on top of the pound for pound list..... in fact the only fighter he that was even ranked pound for pound was tito and tito was the smaller man moving up..so go figure...
Slow down there Burt Sugar, Toney had to kill himself to make 168 for that fight, just like Jones had to kill himself to make 175 for Tarver. It wasn't the great Roy we all know that Tarver beat, and it wasn't the great Toney we all know that Roy beat. And on top of that, Hopkins wasn't favored over either Trinidad or Tarver.
p.s.--Toney was never p4p king. Last I checked Pernell Whitaker held that distinction at that time.
doesn't matter if hop was favored..he was the bigger man...so why did it surprise anyone that the bigger man knocked out the smaller men?.....that just says that even the odds makers bought into the superstar hype and not common sense.....even if toney was number two..he's still better than anyone bhop ever faced..... ;)
okay in that case roy was the bigger man then bhop when he beat bhop...plus roy was the bigger man agianst tarver too...because he went back down to lightheavyweight....
how was roy bigger than bhop when hop started at Light heavy and Roy started at Junior Middle?
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by tuckwopat
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
you can post the videos for all I care.....when you get finished searching the internet for photos, and trying to make a argument with weak circumstantial crap & when you want to know the answer the post answer this:
ON May 22, 1993 at RFK stadium when two fighters fought for the IBF middleweight belt, who won? don't speculate, don't use your opinion, don't go off what if...just answer the simple question: who that fight on 5/22/93 for the IBF MW belt?
Why speculate? When you can see for yourself who's better....
I love that you keep pointing out that Roy beat Hopkins 14 years ago. Its odd how things change. In the end, all of Roy's accomplishments will be good, but they will linger below what Hopkins has done. If I were Hopkins I would never worry about that loss to Jones, because comparitvley Hopkins has won over history.
I guess being undefeated for fifteen years and winning four titles in four divisions...isn't considered winning over history....
Listen hop is great..but after the tarver fight..bhop said he stayed at MW because the risk where lower and he could go after the record...now having said this...prior to jermain taylor beating bhop..who was the last middleweight to beat bhop? RJJ..so would hopkins' prized record of title defenses even exist had roy stayed at middleweight? no...so that accomplishment should have an asterix by it..much like the houston rockets winning the NBA title because micheal jordan decided to take a break....
When you asked another poster what 'ifs' you had in your argument, this is what he was talking about. 'If' Roy would have stated. Roy 'didn't' stay. It's kind of like people bashing Roy for not fighting Benn, McClellan, and Dariusz, or any heavyweight with a pulse for that matter. Ifs don't mean anything. If Roy wouldn't have given Tarver a rematch, there wouldn't be all those links of Roy being flat on his back a few posts up. What matters is what happened.
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
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Originally Posted by babyboNe
bernard hopkins should most definatly be rank higher then roy jones...yes bhop lost to roy...lets look at what happen afterwards...roy division hoops hand picking oppenents...while bhop built a legacy in the middleweight division...bhop sat at his kingdom and all who came to take it from him he face...ROY went on a journey going on to fight abc champions in different division...prime or not...ROY was finally hit flush and he was knock out...and that was the end of roy...bhop reaching 40 loses twice by close fights to taylor...goes on to challenge tarver the man who banish roy...and bhop dominates tarver at the age of 41 at roy's lightheavy division...
its a matter of who survive longer...at 41 bhop still has never been hurt or knock out...between the two of them bhop outlast roy...bhops technically rough and tough style against roys speed and atletic style in 12 rounds or in a career speed and atleticism will decrease more...while technic and inner toughness will always remain if not increase...
I have a question though...
list me someone alike trinidad and oscar that roy has fought? (note bhop k.o both tito and oscar)
(tarver glen k.o jones both lost to bhop)
Well put my friend, have a CC on me. I like RJJ but my fav. is B-HOP,both fighters are HOFers IMO but how somebody can say B-HOP didn't face nobody,don't give him credit for moving up in weight in age of 41 and beating man who KO RJJ. I did give credit to RJJ for going to HW and beating Ruiz. Give B-HOP credit and respect,man deserves,20 defences and moving to LTHW and winning thats HISTORY.
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
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Originally Posted by Samson3000
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by tuckwopat
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
you can post the videos for all I care.....when you get finished searching the internet for photos, and trying to make a argument with weak circumstantial crap & when you want to know the answer the post answer this:
ON May 22, 1993 at RFK stadium when two fighters fought for the IBF middleweight belt, who won? don't speculate, don't use your opinion, don't go off what if...just answer the simple question: who that fight on 5/22/93 for the IBF MW belt?
Why speculate? When you can see for yourself who's better....
I love that you keep pointing out that Roy beat Hopkins 14 years ago. Its odd how things change. In the end, all of Roy's accomplishments will be good, but they will linger below what Hopkins has done. If I were Hopkins I would never worry about that loss to Jones, because comparitvley Hopkins has won over history.
I guess being undefeated for fifteen years and winning four titles in four divisions...isn't considered winning over history....
Listen hop is great..but after the tarver fight..bhop said he stayed at MW because the risk where lower and he could go after the record...now having said this...prior to jermain taylor beating bhop..who was the last middleweight to beat bhop? RJJ..so would hopkins' prized record of title defenses even exist had roy stayed at middleweight? no...so that accomplishment should have an asterix by it..much like the houston rockets winning the NBA title because micheal jordan decided to take a break....
When you asked another poster what 'ifs' you had in your argument, this is what he was talking about. 'If' Roy would have stated. Roy 'didn't' stay. It's kind of like people bashing Roy for not fighting Benn, McClellan, and Dariusz, or any heavyweight with a pulse for that matter. Ifs don't mean anything. If Roy wouldn't have given Tarver a rematch, there wouldn't be all those links of Roy being flat on his back a few posts up. What matters is what happened.
you're right and what did happen was roy beat bhop and has better accomplishments...
even without the amateur accomplishments..their pro careers read as follows:
ROY-MW,SMW,LHW and HW champion..first man to move from MW to HW and win the title...fighter of the decade in the 90s..fighter of the year in 94
NARD-MW,LHW champion...most consecutive defenses of the MW belt..
I'm using facts to decide...what are you using? oh I know your opinion...
imo...rootbeer is the greatest soft drink of all time...some of might say something else..there's no way to decide which is greater because its an opinion...as far as roy and bhop go..roy has accomplished more in and out of the ring that bernard hopkins..
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by Samson3000
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by tuckwopat
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
you can post the videos for all I care.....when you get finished searching the internet for photos, and trying to make a argument with weak circumstantial crap & when you want to know the answer the post answer this:
ON May 22, 1993 at RFK stadium when two fighters fought for the IBF middleweight belt, who won? don't speculate, don't use your opinion, don't go off what if...just answer the simple question: who that fight on 5/22/93 for the IBF MW belt?
Why speculate? When you can see for yourself who's better....
I love that you keep pointing out that Roy beat Hopkins 14 years ago. Its odd how things change. In the end, all of Roy's accomplishments will be good, but they will linger below what Hopkins has done. If I were Hopkins I would never worry about that loss to Jones, because comparitvley Hopkins has won over history.
I guess being undefeated for fifteen years and winning four titles in four divisions...isn't considered winning over history....
Listen hop is great..but after the tarver fight..bhop said he stayed at MW because the risk where lower and he could go after the record...now having said this...prior to jermain taylor beating bhop..who was the last middleweight to beat bhop? RJJ..so would hopkins' prized record of title defenses even exist had roy stayed at middleweight? no...so that accomplishment should have an asterix by it..much like the houston rockets winning the NBA title because micheal jordan decided to take a break....
When you asked another poster what 'ifs' you had in your argument, this is what he was talking about. 'If' Roy would have stated. Roy 'didn't' stay. It's kind of like people bashing Roy for not fighting Benn, McClellan, and Dariusz, or any heavyweight with a pulse for that matter. Ifs don't mean anything. If Roy wouldn't have given Tarver a rematch, there wouldn't be all those links of Roy being flat on his back a few posts up. What matters is what happened.
you're right and what did happen was roy beat bhop and has better accomplishments...
even without the amateur accomplishments..their pro careers read as follows:
ROY-MW,SMW,LHW and HW champion..first man to move from MW to HW and win the title...fighter of the decade in the 90s..fighter of the year in 94
NARD-MW,LHW champion...most consecutive defenses of the MW belt..
I'm using facts to decide...what are you using? oh I know your opinion...
imo...rootbeer is the greatest soft drink of all time...some of might say something else..there's no way to decide which is greater because its an opinion...as far as roy and bhop go..roy has accomplished more in and out of the ring that bernard hopkins..
When asked if you honestly give credence to Roy beating Ruiz as being an accomplishment, I guess you're answer was a yes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D. By the way, Hopkins has dominated as many weight classes as Jones has, one ;D, so that pretty much evens everything out.
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
Hopkins has dominated 160 Roy dominated 175. And they both moved up and won a title in a higher weight class, Roy just did it once more then Hopkins.
But when it comes to history
160 was Hopkins'
175 was Roys'
They are equal p4p number 1s
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
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Originally Posted by Samson3000
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by Samson3000
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by tuckwopat
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
you can post the videos for all I care.....when you get finished searching the internet for photos, and trying to make a argument with weak circumstantial crap & when you want to know the answer the post answer this:
ON May 22, 1993 at RFK stadium when two fighters fought for the IBF middleweight belt, who won? don't speculate, don't use your opinion, don't go off what if...just answer the simple question: who that fight on 5/22/93 for the IBF MW belt?
Why speculate? When you can see for yourself who's better....
I love that you keep pointing out that Roy beat Hopkins 14 years ago. Its odd how things change. In the end, all of Roy's accomplishments will be good, but they will linger below what Hopkins has done. If I were Hopkins I would never worry about that loss to Jones, because comparitvley Hopkins has won over history.
I guess being undefeated for fifteen years and winning four titles in four divisions...isn't considered winning over history....
Listen hop is great..but after the tarver fight..bhop said he stayed at MW because the risk where lower and he could go after the record...now having said this...prior to jermain taylor beating bhop..who was the last middleweight to beat bhop? RJJ..so would hopkins' prized record of title defenses even exist had roy stayed at middleweight? no...so that accomplishment should have an asterix by it..much like the houston rockets winning the NBA title because micheal jordan decided to take a break....
When you asked another poster what 'ifs' you had in your argument, this is what he was talking about. 'If' Roy would have stated. Roy 'didn't' stay. It's kind of like people bashing Roy for not fighting Benn, McClellan, and Dariusz, or any heavyweight with a pulse for that matter. Ifs don't mean anything. If Roy wouldn't have given Tarver a rematch, there wouldn't be all those links of Roy being flat on his back a few posts up. What matters is what happened.
you're right and what did happen was roy beat bhop and has better accomplishments...
even without the amateur accomplishments..their pro careers read as follows:
ROY-MW,SMW,LHW and HW champion..first man to move from MW to HW and win the title...fighter of the decade in the 90s..fighter of the year in 94
NARD-MW,LHW champion...most consecutive defenses of the MW belt..
I'm using facts to decide...what are you using? oh I know your opinion...
imo...rootbeer is the greatest soft drink of all time...some of might say something else..there's no way to decide which is greater because its an opinion...as far as roy and bhop go..roy has accomplished more in and out of the ring that bernard hopkins..
When asked if you honestly give credence to Roy beating Ruiz as being an accomplishment, I guess you're answer was a yes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D. By the way, Hopkins has dominated as many weight classes as Jones has, one ;D, so that pretty much evens everything out.
You don't really think that evens it out do you...admit it bernard is your fav? isn't he? because i seriously doubt that a real smart ass like you could honestly look at their ring accomplishments and that hop has accomplished more...I mean really without speculating about what fighters were worthy being considered good or bad... when you read out their accomplishments roy accomplished more...period...
you think bhop beating tarver was great because he moved up 15 pound...
well roy moved up 25 pounds and beat ruiz i think that was much better..and he came down weight drained and beat tarver....which really heighten that victory now that we all saw what it did to tarver....
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
this was fun..samson3000..but i'll read you later on..btw...
Roy is better...oh i forgot we were talking about greater...he was that too...later dude...have a nice night... ;) ;D
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by Samson3000
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by Samson3000
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by tuckwopat
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
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Originally Posted by smashcrusher
you can post the videos for all I care.....when you get finished searching the internet for photos, and trying to make a argument with weak circumstantial crap & when you want to know the answer the post answer this:
ON May 22, 1993 at RFK stadium when two fighters fought for the IBF middleweight belt, who won? don't speculate, don't use your opinion, don't go off what if...just answer the simple question: who that fight on 5/22/93 for the IBF MW belt?
Why speculate? When you can see for yourself who's better....
I love that you keep pointing out that Roy beat Hopkins 14 years ago. Its odd how things change. In the end, all of Roy's accomplishments will be good, but they will linger below what Hopkins has done. If I were Hopkins I would never worry about that loss to Jones, because comparitvley Hopkins has won over history.
I guess being undefeated for fifteen years and winning four titles in four divisions...isn't considered winning over history....
Listen hop is great..but after the tarver fight..bhop said he stayed at MW because the risk where lower and he could go after the record...now having said this...prior to jermain taylor beating bhop..who was the last middleweight to beat bhop? RJJ..so would hopkins' prized record of title defenses even exist had roy stayed at middleweight? no...so that accomplishment should have an asterix by it..much like the houston rockets winning the NBA title because micheal jordan decided to take a break....
When you asked another poster what 'ifs' you had in your argument, this is what he was talking about. 'If' Roy would have stated. Roy 'didn't' stay. It's kind of like people bashing Roy for not fighting Benn, McClellan, and Dariusz, or any heavyweight with a pulse for that matter. Ifs don't mean anything. If Roy wouldn't have given Tarver a rematch, there wouldn't be all those links of Roy being flat on his back a few posts up. What matters is what happened.
you're right and what did happen was roy beat bhop and has better accomplishments...
even without the amateur accomplishments..their pro careers read as follows:
ROY-MW,SMW,LHW and HW champion..first man to move from MW to HW and win the title...fighter of the decade in the 90s..fighter of the year in 94
NARD-MW,LHW champion...most consecutive defenses of the MW belt..
I'm using facts to decide...what are you using? oh I know your opinion...
imo...rootbeer is the greatest soft drink of all time...some of might say something else..there's no way to decide which is greater because its an opinion...as far as roy and bhop go..roy has accomplished more in and out of the ring that bernard hopkins..
When asked if you honestly give credence to Roy beating Ruiz as being an accomplishment, I guess you're answer was a yes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D. By the way, Hopkins has dominated as many weight classes as Jones has, one ;D, so that pretty much evens everything out.
You don't really think that evens it out do you...admit it bernard is your fav? isn't he? because i seriously doubt that a real smart a** like you could honestly look at their ring accomplishments and that hop has accomplished more...I mean really without speculating about what fighters were worthy being considered good or bad... when you read out their accomplishments roy accomplished more...period...
you think bhop beating tarver was great because he moved up 15 pound...
well roy moved up 25 pounds and beat ruiz i think that was much better..and he came down weight drained and beat tarver....which really heighten that victory now that we all saw what it did to tarver....
Look, let's just agree to disagree. You think Roy's accomplishments are better, I think they are the same. Neither of us is going to convince the other to take the other's side.
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
eehh....how can anyone rank hopkins higher than jones ??? ???
haha, i guess it all comes down to who you like best.
imo jones will always be ranked higher than hopkins p4p. prime for prime, jones will always be the "greater". Age makes hopkins look better than jones because of their style.
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
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Originally Posted by dcR-Reckless
eehh....how can anyone rank hopkins higher than jones ??? ???
haha, i guess it all comes down to who you like best.
imo jones will always be ranked higher than hopkins p4p. prime for prime, jones will always be the "greater". Age makes hopkins look better than jones because of their style.
That's the exact same thing that I said about PBF when he was being compared to RJJ...PBF has a style that doesn't rely solely on athleticism..so he's better equipped to fight as an old man....once roy slowed a bit he got beat..but he maintain that style until 36....whereas SRL was out by 32...
That was a real good point...can't believe i forgot about that...yeah in those regards benard's style was built for longevity, roy was built for speed and agility...but they both have been fighting about the same time so....
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
As far as accomplishments go I'd say they're about even, so whats the next best way to measure this? Did they ever fight? Yes and Roy won - but Bernard hadn't come into his own at the same, nor had Roy peaked at that point. So prime for prime who would of won? No way in hell Hopkins' beats roy, case closed :)
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
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Originally Posted by raleights
As far as accomplishments go I'd say they're about even, so whats the next best way to measure this? Did they ever fight? Yes and Roy won - but Bernard hadn't come into his own at the same, nor had Roy peaked at that point. So prime for prime who would of won? No way in hell Hopkins' beats roy, case closed :)
again that's the same thing i said...but i don't thiink their accomplishments are the same either...yes bernard has some great accomplishments, but roy has more...
and i agree all the way..prime roy's style wouldn't even give bernard the chance to lunge and grab..he'd get hit on the way in and roy would be going away....it would be a UD for roy everytime....
Re: How Can Anyone Now Rank Hopkins Lower than Roy Jones?
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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather
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Originally Posted by raleights
As far as accomplishments go I'd say they're about even, so whats the next best way to measure this? Did they ever fight? Yes and Roy won - but Bernard hadn't come into his own at the same, nor had Roy peaked at that point. So prime for prime who would of won? No way in hell Hopkins' beats roy, case closed :)
again that's the same thing i said...but i don't thiink their accomplishments are the same either...yes bernard has some great accomplishments, but roy has more...
and i agree all the way..prime roy's style wouldn't even give bernard the chance to lunge and grab..he'd get hit on the way in and roy would be going away....it would be a UD for roy everytime....
This is simply the point where people on both sides of the argument disagree, that's all. On how one views what they did in their careers.
