Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
here is my list of the top twenty...and why.
20. Marvelous Marvin Hagler...one of the greatest middleweights ever, probably should have gotten the win against the legendary Sugar Ray Leonard in their "SuperFight" of the '80s.
19. Aaron "The Hawk" Pryor...one of the most dominating junior welters of all time, rumor has it, Ray Leonard ran to welter to avoid a clash with this man who destroyed Alexis Arguello not once but twice. Only suffered one defeat, towards the end of his career.
18. Rocky Marciano...only fighter ever to retire undefeated heavyweight champion of the world. wins over Archie Moore, Joe Walcott and (an aging) Joe Louis. He accomplished all of this all while weighing in at a less-than-heavyweight 188-195 lbs.
17. Joe Louis...held the world heavyweight championship for a record 11 years. Broke down racial barriers in his career with his charisma and polite mannerisms, not to mention his annihilation of Max Schmeling as Hitler and the world watched to see if the Fuhrer's claim that no black man could beat an arian was true. It took less than 124 seconds for Joe to prove it a farce.
16. Floyd Mayweather Junior...may go up in the list as he moves on and fights more great opponents. right now his resume wasnt quite good enough to break my top 15 but it goes without saying he deserves a place on it somewhere...champion of four weight divisions, undefeated, taught to box before he could walk. May go on to be a top five of all time fighter...time will tell.
15. Harry Greb...fought a recorded 299 times; a natural welterweight who won the world middleweight championship as well as the north american light heavyweight championship in the 1920's. Rumored to have been ducked after embarrassing Jack Dempsey in sparring sessions (remember in Harry, we are talking about a welterweight-and-possibly-blown-up-middleweight size fighter), Harry Greb holds wins over fighters such as Jimmy Walker and Gene Tunney; the same man who beat Dempsey for his belt in their famous "long count" fight years later. Greb supposedly not only was a phenomenal fighter, but a disabled one, fighting nearly the entire second half of his 13 year career with one eye after being blinded by a punch that shredded a retina.
14. Willie Pep...one of the top 3 greatest defensive fighters of all time and one of the fastest if not THE fastest. Pep had a record of 230-11 and was a two time featherweight champion of the world. Never even was exposed as being human until after his near fatal plane crash which was supposed to kill him did he begin to suffer losses on his record such as in his memorable four fight saga with Sandy Sadler.
13. Bob Fitzsimmons...one of boxing's first triple crown champions. Won the middleweight championship (and is considered the hardest middleweight puncher of all time), then went up to heavyweight to KO then-champion Jim Corbett. Lost to Jim Jeffries and moved to light heavyweight to win the title, then back up to fight a tough match against the legendary Jack Johnson, which he lost. Considered by Ring Magazine to be "the 8th hardest puncher of all time".
12. "Hammerin' Hank" Armstrong...won world titles at featherweight, lightweight and welterweight all while maintaining the featherweight limit so he could defend them simultaneously. This record will never be broken. Armstrong had 150 victories with over 100 knockouts.
11. Roberto Duran...five world titles in four different weight classes; the only fighter to fight through five decades of boxing; had nearly 120 fights in his lengthy career and won 103 of them. Quite possibly THE best lightweight of all time.
10. Pernell Whitaker...Olympic golden boy. First unified lightweight champion since Duran. Also won the welterweight, junior welterweight and junior middleweight world championships making him a champion in four different weight divisions (which is quite remarkable being as he is about 5'6). Fought legends such as Julio Cesar Chavez and Oscar Delahoya, and in my opinion, won both despite questionable decisions by the judges. One of my favorite fighters ever, this guy was the Willie Pep of his time.
9. Tommy "The Hitman" Hearns...A 5-division world champ, Hearns would have been the fighter of his era without question had it not been for losses to Ray Leonard and Hearns. Really, he was robbed against Sugar Ray the second time around. This guy doesnt always get the credit he deserves. Maybe the most devastating puncher the welterweight division has ever seen (just ask Duran, who he KOed in two rounds). Won world titles as a welterweight, junior middleweight, middleweight, supermiddleweight and light heavyweight.
8. James "Lights Out" Toney...Say what you want about James Toney. His record speaks for itself. A nine time world champion in three weight divisions, including the heavyweight division in a bout where he clearly outboxed and outpunched a plodding and bewildered John Ruiz to a clear cut decision win. Unfortunately for James, he was stripped of the title after testing positive for steroids which he claimed a doctor had given him to heal a torn bicep from a previous heavyweight match up against, I believe, Rydell Booker. A great finisher and one of the three men ever to move up from middleweight (in the 1990's) to win a heavyweight title, James Toney is still competing at the top level with today's heavyweight contenders.
7. Roy Jones, Jr...5 time world champion in four weight divisions; middleweight, supermiddleweight, light heavyweight and heavyweight (he beat John Ruiz's ass worse than Toney did, btw). Should have won Olympic gold too, but was robbed. Pretty much ruled, without question, his division since the early nineties; only until recent losses against Tarver and Johnson has he faded away and now may finally retire. Holds wins over Virgil Hill, Bernard Hopkins, James Toney, Vinny Pazienza and Michael "Second to" Nunn, to name a few.
6. Oscar Delahoya...a lotta G.B. haters will chew this one up I'm sure, but I look at it like this...on paper; He was the only medal winner from the American Boxing Team, winning, of course, his famous gold medal in Barcelona. Delahoya is the first boxer ever to hold world titles in 6 divisions, breaking records held by Sugar Ray Leonard and Thomas Hearns. This can totally be argued as to whether he deserved to; he in my opinion fought a very lackluster fight which it didnt look to me like he won against a no name fighter named Felix Sturm from Germany. I believe it was also for a no-name belt that was invented so that Oscar could break the record and build more hype leading into his then-upcoming megafight with Hopkins that he would go on to lose. The fact still remains that Oscar is a 10 time world champion in six different weight classes. Off paper, the guy has fought some good opposition; he's gone up against Hopkins, Trinidad, Ike Quartey, Fernando Vargas, Oba Carr, Julio Cesar Chavez, Rafael Ruelas, Pernell Whitaker, Hector Camacho, Jorge Paez, Jesse James Leigha (in his prime), and sluggers like Gatti and Mayorga. He has beaten most of them to the ground. Another reason he gets such high status on this list is the fact that Delahoya is one of those figures that can transcend the sport; he is great for boxing because he opens vessels to entirely new audiences of people and has started a promotional company which I believe will help "clean up" and regulate boxing the way it has so badly needed.
5. Bernard "The Executioner" Hopkins...One of the most dominant middleweight champions ever. He was even middleweight champion in prison (3 times). After doing time for "strong-armed robbery" which meant he beat the shit out of you and took your chain, Hopkins went on to break Sugar Ray Robinson's record of defenses for the middleweight crown. At 41, the guy beat Antonio Tarver for the light heavyweight title and now looks for a fight against one of the most dangerous opponents out there; Winky Wright.
4. TIE---Sam Langford...throughout his 25+ year career, he was denied a title shot because of his color (even by Jack Johnson, who most said, like Dempsey, was afraid to fight Langford), Langford was an anomaly. Ranging from 139 to 204 lbs, he fought from jr welter to heavyweight against a wealth of opponents, including a prime pre-title Jack Johnson in what was said to be an extremely close match in which Johnson took a narrow decision from Langford, who had given up nearly 40 pounds to the future champ. Like Greb, he went blind halfway through his career yet still won the Mexican heavyweight championship, at about 39 and 95% blind. Sam Langford faced fighters like Sam McVey, Tiger Flowers, Joe Gans, Stanley Ketchel and Jack Johnson. The few that did beat him never did it convincingly. Sam Langford is the greatest fighter ever to never receive a shot at a world Boxing historian Burt Sugar ranks Langford 16th in his book, The 100 Greatest Fighters of All Time. Nat Fleischer, editor in chief of Ring Magazine ranks him as the #7 heavyweight of all time, and Herb Goldman; founder of the International Boxing Research Association ranks him as the #2 light heavyweight of all time. Sam Langford is a member of both the Ring Boxing Hall of Fame and the International Boxing Hall of Fame. He fought at least 293 times with at least 167 wins (at least 117 KOs), 38 losses and a combined 85 draws and no-contests.
4. TIE---Evander Holyfield. The only four time heavyweight champion of all time (on paper; the fourth title to break Ali's record was "given" to Evander when a new belt was created for his first fight with John Ruiz), Holyfield has shown impressive heart and firepower in his career against fighters like George Foreman, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Larry Holmes,Riddick Bowe, James Toney and James "Buster" Douglas. A natural cruiserweight, Holyfield was questioned initially by the experts as to whether he could hang with the big boys at heavyweight. He proved them wrong when he became the undisputed world champion, and now seeks to prove more people wrong as he heads on a final run to do it again.
3. Sugar Ray Leonard...overnight gold medal sensation who transcended the sport like fighters before him such as Ali and fighters after him such as Oscar Delahoya. World champion in five different weight classes and one of the more graceful and beautiful fighters to watch in motion. Ray Leonard beat world class legendary fighters like Tommy Hearns, Roberto Duran, Marvin Hagler, Wilfredo Benitez while electrifying audiences with his hand speed and boxing skill. Leonard will always be remembered not only for his legendary speed and grace (which allowed him to “steal” rounds in the final seconds), but also for his tireless dedication to charity and promotion of the sport we all love.
2. Muhammad Ali...what sucks is we will never know how great he really would have been as his best years were taken from him during his incarceration. Probably the most charismatic and colorful fighter of all time. Invented what it was to transcend the genre and break the mold; Ali was much more than a fighter, though as a fighter he was a fantastic specimen. A great speaker and politician, he was also one of the fastest and most scientific heavyweight champions that ever lived. He was the first three time heavyweight champion and a true sports icon. Ali fought wars in the ring against ridiculously qualified opposition; Joe Frazier, George Foreman in his prime, Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Archie Moore, Kenny Norton, Ingemar Yohannson and Larry Holmes. Synonymous with the phrase, "The Greatest".
1. Sugar Ray Robinson...in a career that spanned three decades, he consistently outshined everyone else around the boxing circles of the world. Robinson was the perfect combination of speed and power, compiling the types of knockouts in such rhythmic and brilliant fashion that he captivated boxing audiences like no fighter ever had before. A former welterweight world champion, Ray held the middleweight world title five times. 175 wins. 19 losses. 16 of these losses came after the age of 35 as his skills began to fade. Once fought 3 times in 21 days and twice in eight days. Holds wins over Carmen Basilio, Jake "The Raging Bull" Lamotta, Henry Armstrong, Gene Fullmer, Rocky Graziano and Randy Turpin. Like I said before, a more perfect combination of the elements it takes to make a great great boxer had never come together so well before in one man as they did Sugar Ray Robinson. Pound for pound the best that ever lived.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
CC Diamonddave for the time and effort you put into your post. Always good to see people back up their posts (right or wrong) with supporting evidence and opinions.
However, there is no way that James Toney, Oscar, Bernard Hopkins, and Evander Holyfield are among the top 8 boxers of all-time.
I'm not sure that James Toney is even Top 75, and I am a huge Toney fan, he's one of my favorite all-time fighters.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
CC Diamonddave for the time and effort you put into your post. Always good to see people back up their posts (right or wrong) with supporting evidence and opinions.
However, there is no way that James Toney, Oscar, Bernard Hopkins, and Evander Holyfield are among the top 8 boxers of all-time.
I'm not sure that James Toney is even Top 75, and I am a huge Toney fan, he's one of my favorite all-time fighters.
Agreed. CC to ya DD but I pretty much disagree with the entire list. That's the good thing about these list though they are purely subjective.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
i agree with amat hearns is way too high so is toney hopkins oscar at number 6 ?? how did you come up with that bro ?? and how is holyfield 4th ?? sorry mate maybe you can explain because i dont get how there so high and louis is 17
but cc for the effort anyway
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Ok this is my second go at this list.
1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Gene Tunney
6. Joe Louis
7. Benny Leonard
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Lou Ambers
10. Archie Moore
11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Kid Gavilan
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Ray Leonard
16. Bernard Hopkins
17. Roberto Duran
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Oscar De La Hoya
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
I don't know. I still think the order is off but I like them all to be in the top 20. Maybe not in that order but I like this one better then my last. I'm satisfied. And I'll gladly defend everyone's place on the list.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Ok this is my second go at this list.
1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Gene Tunney
6. Joe Louis
7. Benny Leonard
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Lou Ambers
10. Archie Moore
11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Kid Gavilan
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Ray Leonard
16. Bernard Hopkins
17. Roberto Duran
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Oscar De La Hoya
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
I don't know. I still think the order is off but I like them all to be in the top 20. Maybe not in that order but I like this one better then my last. I'm satisfied. And I'll gladly defend everyone's place on the list.
i dont see howu have delahoya and hopkins and james toney but no roy jones? explain please
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Honestly this time I considered putting RJ on but....well outside of Toney, Ruiz and Hopkins, what's one big fight RJ had. I mean the only true mega fight of his career was against Ruiz. Great fighter, immensely talented and probably one of the best fighters but he didn't face enough really good opponents. He basically spent 10 years fighting stay busy fights. And Roy knows it himself, he didn't take a single one of those fights seriously because he knew he was heads and shoulders above everyone else. He could have made good if he faced Hopkins.
Look at how criticized Joe C. is. Great fighter. Probably the fastest most talented 168 lber of all time. But look at him now, criticized because in his 10 years as champ he has had 1 fight that can be considered a superfight. And he's criticized to the high heavens.
But Roy Jones did virtually the same thing but because he was so good, and had such a pizazz about him. Don't get me wrong, RJ is awesome and I loved watching his fights I just don't think he belongs in the ranks of those guys. And I don't have James Toney on there....
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Ok this is my second go at this list.
1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Gene Tunney
6. Joe Louis
7. Benny Leonard
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Lou Ambers
10. Archie Moore
11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Kid Gavilan
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Ray Leonard
16. Bernard Hopkins
17. Roberto Duran
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Oscar De La Hoya
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
I don't know. I still think the order is off but I like them all to be in the top 20. Maybe not in that order but I like this one better then my last. I'm satisfied. And I'll gladly defend everyone's place on the list.
nice list but who are the ones in bold ill be honest never heard of them bro
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Honestly this time I considered putting RJ on but....well outside of Toney, Ruiz and Hopkins, what's one big fight RJ had. I mean the only true mega fight of his career was against Ruiz.
Actually, the Toney fight was a much, much bigger fight than the Ruiz one. The fight against Ruiz was only a big deal because of the idea of a former middleweight fighting against a heavyweight. But everyone knew that Ruiz was a paper champion and that he was basically a stiff.
On the other hand, Toney was considered one of the top 2 or 3 PFP fighters in the world when he fought Jones. The betting odds were about even for that fight. Beating Toney was a big deal back then.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Ok this is my second go at this list.
1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Gene Tunney
6. Joe Louis
7. Benny Leonard
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Lou Ambers
10. Archie Moore
11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Kid Gavilan
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Ray Leonard
16. Bernard Hopkins
17. Roberto Duran
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Oscar De La Hoya
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
I don't know. I still think the order is off but I like them all to be in the top 20. Maybe not in that order but I like this one better then my last. I'm satisfied. And I'll gladly defend everyone's place on the list.
nice list but who are the ones in bold ill be honest never heard of them bro
Ketchel was one of boxing's first ever 2 division champion. He won the middleweight title against Jack Sullivan in 1908 and then defended it against Sullivan's twin brother a couple weeks later. He then went on to dominate the division, beating top challengers Joe Thomas and Billy Papke. In his rematch with Papke, when the two went to shake hands in the middle of the ring and receive instruction, Papke let go two bare fisted punches to the side of Ketchel's head. Ketchel was believed to have suffered a concussion because he was on wobbly legs the entire fight and went on to lose in the 11th.
In the rematch a month later Ketchel gave Papke one of the worst beatings ever. He could have had him out of there fast but chose to prolong the beating in order to get revenge. That fight really ruined Papke, a hall of famer. Ketchel became the first middleweight ever to regain his title.
Then he went on to face Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, who was the champ at 175 but the belt was not on the line, and in one of the bigger boxing turnarounds in history, he got brutally beat up for the first 6 rounds before flooring O'Brien 3 times knocking O'Brien out cold at the final bell. It was a No Decision. They fought shortly thereafter with Ketchel winning by KO in the 3rd. While the belt wasn't on the line, most everyone in the media recognized Ketchel as the real 175 lb champion.
He then went on to face Jack Johnson. He floored Johnson in the fight, one that Johnson said the two were supposed to carry to a decision even though Ketchel denied that. He went on the attack against Johnson rounds 8-10 and spent himself. Between the 10th and 11th rounds, he delivered that famous quote "This isn't human." Johnson came back and KO'd Ketchel in the 12th.
Ketchel then had a fight against Sam Langford that was very well received as the two fought to a No Decision and while he training for a Langford rematch super fight in San Francisco, Ketchel was gunned down by a worker of his at just 24 years old.
Lou Ambers is probably a little high ;D But still, one of the greatest lightweights of all time and probably the best Jewish fighter ever. The first ever lightweight titlist to win his belt back 3 times, finished his career with over 90 wins, all at lightweight. 2 of those wins over Tony Canzaneri and 1 over a prime Henry Armstrong. I'm partial to Ambers just because I've seen a few of his fights and he really looks like a boxer of today fighting 70 years ago. Awesome fighter.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Ok this is my second go at this list.
1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Gene Tunney
6. Joe Louis
7. Benny Leonard
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Lou Ambers
10. Archie Moore
11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Kid Gavilan
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Ray Leonard
16. Bernard Hopkins
17. Roberto Duran
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Oscar De La Hoya
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
I don't know. I still think the order is off but I like them all to be in the top 20. Maybe not in that order but I like this one better then my last. I'm satisfied. And I'll gladly defend everyone's place on the list.
nice list but who are the ones in bold ill be honest never heard of them bro
Ketchel was one of boxing's first ever 2 division champion. He won the middleweight title against Jack Sullivan in 1908 and then defended it against Sullivan's twin brother a couple weeks later. He then went on to dominate the division, beating top challengers Joe Thomas and Billy Papke. In his rematch with Papke, when the two went to shake hands in the middle of the ring and receive instruction, Papke let go two bare fisted punches to the side of Ketchel's head. Ketchel was believed to have suffered a concussion because he was on wobbly legs the entire fight and went on to lose in the 11th.
In the rematch a month later Ketchel gave Papke one of the worst beatings ever. He could have had him out of there fast but chose to prolong the beating in order to get revenge. That fight really ruined Papke, a hall of famer. Ketchel became the first middleweight ever to regain his title.
Then he went on to face Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, who was the champ at 175 but the belt was not on the line, and in one of the bigger boxing turnarounds in history, he got brutally beat up for the first 6 rounds before flooring O'Brien 3 times knocking O'Brien out cold at the final bell. It was a No Decision. They fought shortly thereafter with Ketchel winning by KO in the 3rd. While the belt wasn't on the line, most everyone in the media recognized Ketchel as the real 175 lb champion.
He then went on to face Jack Johnson. He floored Johnson in the fight, one that Johnson said the two were supposed to carry to a decision even though Ketchel denied that. He went on the attack against Johnson rounds 8-10 and spent himself. Between the 10th and 11th rounds, he delivered that famous quote "This isn't human." Johnson came back and KO'd Ketchel in the 12th.
Ketchel then had a fight against Sam Langford that was very well received as the two fought to a No Decision and while he training for a Langford rematch super fight in San Francisco, Ketchel was gunned down by a worker of his at just 24 years old.
Lou Ambers is probably a little high ;D But still, one of the greatest lightweights of all time and probably the best Jewish fighter ever. The first ever lightweight titlist to win his belt back 3 times, finished his career with over 90 wins, all at lightweight. 2 of those wins over Tony Canzaneri and 1 over a prime Henry Armstrong. I'm partial to Ambers just because I've seen a few of his fights and he really looks like a boxer of today fighting 70 years ago. Awesome fighter.
thanks for the info cc
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetPea
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Honestly this time I considered putting RJ on but....well outside of Toney, Ruiz and Hopkins, what's one big fight RJ had. I mean the only true mega fight of his career was against Ruiz.
Actually, the Toney fight was a much, much bigger fight than the Ruiz one. The fight against Ruiz was only a big deal because of the idea of a former middleweight fighting against a heavyweight. But everyone knew that Ruiz was a paper champion and that he was basically a stiff.
On the other hand, Toney was considered one of the top 2 or 3 PFP fighters in the world when he fought Jones. The betting odds were about even for that fight. Beating Toney was a big deal back then.
Yeah I didn't find the Ruiz fight to be to terribly big of a deal because Ruiz was nothing special. But I never knew that about the Toney fight being that big. I know Toney made quite a name for himself after KOing Nunn and I guess it's only right that he was top P4P since Nunn was. But I was 4 years old at the time of the fight (1994 right?) so I don't remember it. Hillarious fight though, I've always liked Toney in the ring but when he got knocked down taunting RJ that was the greatest thing ever ;D
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE COLD BOXING
Quote:
Originally Posted by amat
Ok this is my second go at this list.
1. Ray Robinson
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Willie Pep
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Gene Tunney
6. Joe Louis
7. Benny Leonard
8. Stanley Ketchel
9. Lou Ambers
10. Archie Moore
11. Pernell Whitaker
12. Marvin Hagler
13. Kid Gavilan
14. Jack Dempsey
15. Ray Leonard
16. Bernard Hopkins
17. Roberto Duran
18. Carlos Monzon
19. Oscar De La Hoya
20. Julio Cesar Chavez
I don't know. I still think the order is off but I like them all to be in the top 20. Maybe not in that order but I like this one better then my last. I'm satisfied. And I'll gladly defend everyone's place on the list.
nice list but who are the ones in bold ill be honest never heard of them bro
Ketchel was one of boxing's first ever 2 division champion. He won the middleweight title against Jack Sullivan in 1908 and then defended it against Sullivan's twin brother a couple weeks later. He then went on to dominate the division, beating top challengers Joe Thomas and Billy Papke. In his rematch with Papke, when the two went to shake hands in the middle of the ring and receive instruction, Papke let go two bare fisted punches to the side of Ketchel's head. Ketchel was believed to have suffered a concussion because he was on wobbly legs the entire fight and went on to lose in the 11th.
In the rematch a month later Ketchel gave Papke one of the worst beatings ever. He could have had him out of there fast but chose to prolong the beating in order to get revenge. That fight really ruined Papke, a hall of famer. Ketchel became the first middleweight ever to regain his title.
Then he went on to face Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, who was the champ at 175 but the belt was not on the line, and in one of the bigger boxing turnarounds in history, he got brutally beat up for the first 6 rounds before flooring O'Brien 3 times knocking O'Brien out cold at the final bell. It was a No Decision. They fought shortly thereafter with Ketchel winning by KO in the 3rd. While the belt wasn't on the line, most everyone in the media recognized Ketchel as the real 175 lb champion.
He then went on to face Jack Johnson. He floored Johnson in the fight, one that Johnson said the two were supposed to carry to a decision even though Ketchel denied that. He went on the attack against Johnson rounds 8-10 and spent himself. Between the 10th and 11th rounds, he delivered that famous quote "This isn't human." Johnson came back and KO'd Ketchel in the 12th.
Ketchel then had a fight against Sam Langford that was very well received as the two fought to a No Decision and while he training for a Langford rematch super fight in San Francisco, Ketchel was gunned down by a worker of his at just 24 years old.
Lou Ambers is probably a little high ;D But still, one of the greatest lightweights of all time and probably the best Jewish fighter ever. The first ever lightweight titlist to win his belt back 3 times, finished his career with over 90 wins, all at lightweight. 2 of those wins over Tony Canzaneri and 1 over a prime Henry Armstrong. I'm partial to Ambers just because I've seen a few of his fights and he really looks like a boxer of today fighting 70 years ago. Awesome fighter.
Nice list Amat, and cool bit of info about Ketchel.. But since you included him on your top 20, don't you think Sam Langford should be there? From an account I read, Langford was notorious for holding back in fights and carrying his opponent in order to get a rematch, since it was so hard for black fighters to get fights in those days. Apparently the Ketchel fight was thought to be a great example of this. Could be wrong, but either way Langford was a much greater fighter imo.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
Ketchel is on the list mainly because...well he was shot dead at 24. He had so much to give after that I always like to include him in the list just so people can learn a bit about him because that's how I cam to learn about him. As for Langford carrying Ketchel, I don't know about that. I've heard contradicting reports on the fight. Some saying he carried him others saying that he really did get caught flush and that Ketchel took the last rounds legitimately. I've also heard that both men held back.
But I should have Langford on the list :-\ Somehow, he slipped my mind when I thought about all the people to include on the list. I actually don't really know a lot about Langford other then the fact that he was the most ducked fighter ever. I guess I should take this time to learn a bit about him. CC P4P.
Re: Who's Number 1? ESPN Counts Down the 20 Greatest Boxers of All Time
I have a lot of trouble with these lists because I simply cannot rank a guy from what I've read about him. Willie Pep is regarded as one of the best who ever laced up gloves, but how can I justify putting him in my top 20 when the only footage I've seen of him is a few clips from a P4P profile on Youtube and HLs of his fights against Sandy Saddler? I've never seen Stanley Ketchel besides his fight with Jack Johnson. I don't remember seeing any of Harry Greb. So how do I rank these guys? How can you rank a guy without seeing footage of him in the ring?
