Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
You don't think Toney has a chance against Wladdy because you are an imbecile! Did Toney get knocked all over the ring like a little biatch like Wladdy....
Dude. Toney has no chance against Wlad. The fact that Toney is feather fisted as a heavyweight only makes it a certainty.
Your wrong
I wouldn't exactly call him feather-fisted, but he doesn't pack that much of a punch. That being said, I think he could outwork and puzzle Wladdy until he has another one of his breakdowns in the ring. I don't think there is another "fighter" in the HW division with the same amount of emotional baggage as BitchKO'd, perhaps with the exception of the Atomic Bull, who has a chin of granite.
There is no such thing as "certainty" in boxing. The sport is rich with a plethora of examples that would certainly dispose of such claims.
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Yeah it is theoretically possible. But you are acting like it is probable. We all know that Wlads only weakness is power.
Name a heavyweight in the top 10 who has less power then Toney.
OLEG MASKAEV- compare their Rahman fights
SERGEI LIAKHOVICH- he manhandled Brewster
LAMON BREWSTER- next
JOHN RUIZ- maybe, but Ruiz can put a punch together, no fighter has ever hurt holyfield so badly as he did in their second fight
CALVIN BROCK- maybe, but I doubt it. Brock is more of a natural heavy
SAMUEL PETER-next
NICOLAY VALUEV- he is just so big.
HASIM RAHMAN- Lennox I
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Nobody's gonna act like Toney's a big puncher but I think he can get heavyweight's respect with his punches, he's not Chris Byrd. I was surprised, given the fact that Peter's got a really good chin, that Toney was able to stun him occassionaly, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he badly wobbled Peter or was ever close to really hurting him, but he caught Sam with a couple counters that definitely got his attention.
It would help if he had more power, but I think a bigger problem versus Wlad will be Toney's deteriorating foot speed. Because of the added weight he's much more plodding, watch the Holyfield fight, he had great footwork and quick feet. With Wlad having that long jab, and quicker feet than Toney, it will probably be hard for Toney to close the gap and get inside. Steward's been around Toney for a long time, he'll tell Wlad to stay at jab length and box him, power advantage or not, and James will have to try to close distance enough to at least land the right and that could be hard.
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lance Uppercut
Yeah it is theoretically possible. But you are acting like it is probable. We all know that Wlads only weakness is power.
Name a heavyweight in the top 10 who has less power then Toney.
OLEG MASKAEV- compare their Rahman fights
SERGEI LIAKHOVICH- he manhandled Brewster
LAMON BREWSTER- next
JOHN RUIZ- maybe, but Ruiz can put a punch together, no fighter has ever hurt holyfield so badly as he did in their second fight
CALVIN BROCK- maybe, but I doubt it. Brock is more of a natural heavy
SAMUEL PETER-next
NICOLAY VALUEV- he is just so big.
HASIM RAHMAN- Lennox I
It's more than probable, in fact, I think it would be likely. BitchKO'd can't take Toney...NO WAY. Toney would frustrate the crap out of him and he would eventually break-down in the ring. Wladdy does have the pedigree of being a hard puncher, and a fairly accurate one at that. However, Toney is still very awkward and crafty in the ring. He's one of the best counter-punchers that has ever graced the sport.
John Ruiz has a decent right hand, but who dropped who in the Toney vs. Ruiz fight. I expected Toney to win on points against Peter, which, in fact, he should have done. According to a fightnews.com pole, the overwhelming majority of those who actually watched the fight had Toney winning. This is a moot point as Suliman is just as corrupt as King and is destroying the sport.
Toney also dropped an undefeated Booker with a torn-bicep. Look at his last 6 fights: He's beaten 2 out of 3 former HW Champs decisively!! It's Toney's bad for not showing up prepared for the Rahman stink-fest. But I don't think that it's too shaby for a "blown-up" middleweight. RJJ surely wouldn't have been able to do it.
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
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Originally Posted by The Shadow
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Originally Posted by Lyle
Faculties???
Listen here McDumbass Wlad has beaten every heavyweight of note in the current division and the ones he hasn't fought won't stand much of a chance IF they do step in the ring with him.
...apparently it's true the Irish are stubborn AND stupid
Wow!! Lyle is a southern bigot!! How original!! Do you even know what you are you stupid fukin inbread piece of excrement? It's inbread little southern confederate flag wielding cocksmokers like yourself that put your cousins in office. ::** Remember that when your fatass is sitting down drinking your Aunt/Mother's moonshne and waxing poetic about the glory days of the Klan and how aroused you get whenever your cousin Bertha comes near you. ;)
Priceless.
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Oh Sam was "real green"...oh you mean TWO FIGHTS AGO....you're not helping your argument
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
Wow!! Lyle is a southern bigot!! How original!! Do you even know what you are you stupid fukin inbread piece of excrement? It's inbread little southern confederate flag wielding cocksmokers like yourself that put your cousins in office. ::** Remember that when your fatass is sitting down drinking your Aunt/Mother's moonshne and waxing poetic about the glory days of the Klan and how aroused you get whenever your cousin Bertha comes near you. ;)
I'm not the one supporting Sein Fein you potato eating bastard!
OUTWORK WLAD?!?!?!?! How many punches did "Supersize Me" Toney throw a round vs Rahman?
Also: women don't make 'shine....my cousins aren't in office....my ass ain't fat...I know no one named "Bertha"...and the Klan was not "the glory days" it happened post Civil War because Confederate Officers were not allowed to vote or hold office and so on so to keep their power they created that awful little group which I might add grew LARGER in the NORTH and MIDWEST. My state, North Carolina was the last state to seceed and they only did that due to the fact that we're surrounded by the 2 main states that wanted to seceed Virginia and South Carolina.....hope you enjoyed the history lesson
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Wlad couldn't outbox James Toney??? He couldn't KO Toney? He couldn't at least wobble the fat man? He couldn't use his size over Toney??? OK...let me know when you return from LA-LA Land
Oh inbreeding jokes yeah that's really funny coming from a place that had Kings and Queens...how did that all work out again??? OH I remember they married their relatives and procreated and created dumbasses like yourself
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Wlad couldn't outbox James Toney??? He couldn't KO Toney? He couldn't at least wobble the fat man? He couldn't use his size over Toney??? OK...let me know when you return from LA-LA Land
Oh inbreeding jokes yeah that's really funny coming from a place that had Kings and Queens...how did that all work out again??? OH I remember they married their relatives and procreated and created dumbasses like yourself
I agree, I don't think Wlad has the stamina to deal with Toney if it gets past 5 - 6 rounds. Toney would have to watch his ass early tho. if James could maintain himself for the first six, I think he could knock Wlad out . Tbe early rounds would be dangerous for Toney ,James would have to be sharp, and he would have to be 217. he is too cemented and flat at 233,
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Wlad doesn't have the stamina? Fine go ahead and believe it if you must all I'm saying is don't come crying to me when James gets laid the fuck out.
Now James is a tough SOB, he rates up with the toughest and slickest boxers of all time but how much punishment could he take from such an accurate power puncher. Sam Peter throws more hooks and Wlad throws straight so it's harder to roll with those punches that jab from Wladimir is good enough to hurt a lot of fighters. If James lasted the distance with Wlad (which is highly likely) I will have HUGE respect for him.
I just want to know if Toney can't hurt Ruiz, he can't hurt Guinn, he can't hurt Rahman, he can't hurt Booker HOW is it possible to consider that he could hurt Wlad. Do you rate Wlad's chin THAT low??? Also do you think that fighting a dangerous Sam Peter for 12 rounds and seeming pretty fresh through out isn't a sign that he could go 12 with Toney?
The height and style of Wlad make a fight with Toney very condusive to the way Wlad likes to fight. James stays on the ropes in a defensive posture and waits to pick his shots and Wlad rams the jab in and paws with the jab and tries to find room for the right cross...he can't do that for 12 rounds???
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Wlad doesn't have the stamina? Fine go ahead and believe it if you must all I'm saying is don't come crying to me when James gets laid the F*** out.
Now James is a tough SOB, he rates up with the toughest and slickest boxers of all time but how much punishment could he take from such an accurate power puncher. Sam Peter throws more hooks and Wlad throws straight so it's harder to roll with those punches that jab from Wladimir is good enough to hurt a lot of fighters. If James lasted the distance with Wlad (which is highly likely) I will have HUGE respect for him.
I just want to know if Toney can't hurt Ruiz, he can't hurt Guinn, he can't hurt Rahman, he can't hurt Booker HOW is it possible to consider that he could hurt Wlad. Do you rate Wlad's chin THAT low??? Also do you think that fighting a dangerous Sam Peter for 12 rounds and seeming pretty fresh through out isn't a sign that he could go 12 with Toney?
The height and style of Wlad make a fight with Toney very condusive to the way Wlad likes to fight. James stays on the ropes in a defensive posture and waits to pick his shots and Wlad rams the jab in and paws with the jab and tries to find room for the right cross...he can't do that for 12 rounds???
I actually completely agree with you on the analysis... The only way Toney could win(but it is possible) would be if Wlad completely gassed out/broke down as he has twice... Lamon Brewster and Ross Purity are not fighters of Toney's calibre, and I don't think it had anything to do with their power either, if you really watch any decent HW could have put Wlad away in the state he somehow fell in to.. I don't know he very well may have shaky stamina, or at least it isn't consistent.
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
I agree entirely that Toney must come in at 215-217 to be his most effective. The Holyfield fight shows that he can in fact hurt a heavyweight, as he hurt Rahman in the first 2-4 rounds of their fight. (If memory serves it was the 3rd in which he was most effective. He has the pop in his punches- the right hand he likes to counter with, and his body punches, the inside uppercut- to get anybody's attention. But to do DAMAGE he needs to throw combinations- when he does he is masterful, ask Evander- and to be in condition to do so consistently throughout the fight. Also having the legs to take the fight to an opponent from time to time wouldn't hurt.
As to Toney v. Wlad...By all that is holy in boxing that giant lummox has no business beating James Toney, who has more boxing skill and knowledge that he never gets around to using than any other dozen current fighters combined (assuming none are named "Mayweather" or "Wright"). That said, there is little or nothing actually holy in boxing and besides not getting any younger Toney seemingly has determined to make each fight more difficult than it needs to be by "training" on the way into the ring.
But a final thought...Remember when Toney was written off? He was fighting 'nobodies' and winning but nobody wanted to fight him because it was easier to mock and side step the man. UNTIL he lost to Drake Thadzi, after which he immediately got three fights in a row against top ten cruisers, scored three KOs then beat Jirov, Holyfield, etc...bringing us to present time. It has long been my opinion that he didn't mind losing to Thadzi- if you see what I mean- because Toney knows his ability and skill and losing that fight opened many more doors than winning it would have. So now that he's waddled into the ring twice in a row and had a draw and a loss there are probably more protected, Eastern European fighters with robotic styles and fragile chins and questionable stamina than ever willing to try and hang his scalp on their belts, and the money is probably pretty good, maybe enough to motivate a roly-poly ex-middleweight to come in in shape once or twice more.
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Oh Sam was "real green"...oh you mean TWO FIGHTS AGO....you're not helping your argument
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Shadow
Wow!! Lyle is a southern bigot!! How original!! Do you even know what you are you stupid fukin inbread piece of excrement? It's inbread little southern confederate flag wielding cocksmokers like yourself that put your cousins in office. ::** Remember that when your fatass is sitting down drinking your Aunt/Mother's moonshne and waxing poetic about the glory days of the Klan and how aroused you get whenever your cousin Bertha comes near you. ;)
I'm not the one supporting Sein Fein you potato eating B******!
OUTWORK WLAD?!?!?!?! How many punches did "Supersize Me" Toney throw a round vs Rahman?
Also: women don't make 'shine....my cousins aren't in office....my a** ain't fat...I know no one named "Bertha"...and the Klan was not "the glory days" it happened post Civil War because Confederate Officers were not allowed to vote or hold office and so on so to keep their power they created that awful little group which I might add grew LARGER in the NORTH and MIDWEST. My state, North Carolina was the last state to seceed and they only did that due to the fact that we're surrounded by the 2 main states that wanted to seceed Virginia and South Carolina.....hope you enjoyed the history lesson
Lyle, you're a complete racist and bigot. In fact, Ireland is the smallest Island on the planet to produce the most noble laureates in Literature. Now, on to my 2nd bitchslap for you:
Your Aunt May has a beard and your Uncle Billy-Bob shares her dentures. Believe me when I say that I'm all too familiar with Antebellum Southern policies. I know all about the horrors of the Klan, which formed after you confederate inbreeding simps were forced to your knees - undoubtedly a familiar place for you when your sucking off your local Aryan Identity Minister.
Further, you are fat disgusting sloppy blob of monkey refuse. Women do make moonshine you inept troglodyte, but I understand the confusion for you: Your Moma and your Pops have cross-dressing gender issues, so it doesn't surprise me that you can't tell the difference.
Admit it, Lyle: Your WAY over your head in any form of a verbal battle with me. I'll knock your stupid incest product genetic mistake out any time you want to step to the plate. And I won't forget to maintain my formal grin, with exception of when your licking your retarted sister's asscrack ;D ;) How's that working out for you B.T.W?
Give Aunt May my condolences. If you forward her address, I have some interested Bioligists that would love to study your families corrupt genome. Hell, I'll even send her a good pair of dentures and a shipment of Mach3 Razors.
If there is anything else I can do for you, please, don't hesitate to ask ::** ;)
Oh, and Toney still whips your milksister. :lhdevil: :lolololol:
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyle
Wlad doesn't have the stamina? Fine go ahead and believe it if you must all I'm saying is don't come crying to me when James gets laid the F*** out.
Now James is a tough SOB, he rates up with the toughest and slickest boxers of all time but how much punishment could he take from such an accurate power puncher. Sam Peter throws more hooks and Wlad throws straight so it's harder to roll with those punches that jab from Wladimir is good enough to hurt a lot of fighters. If James lasted the distance with Wlad (which is highly likely) I will have HUGE respect for him.
I just want to know if Toney can't hurt Ruiz, he can't hurt Guinn, he can't hurt Rahman, he can't hurt Booker HOW is it possible to consider that he could hurt Wlad. Do you rate Wlad's chin THAT low??? Also do you think that fighting a dangerous Sam Peter for 12 rounds and seeming pretty fresh through out isn't a sign that he could go 12 with Toney?
The height and style of Wlad make a fight with Toney very condusive to the way Wlad likes to fight. James stays on the ropes in a defensive posture and waits to pick his shots and Wlad rams the jab in and paws with the jab and tries to find room for the right cross...he can't do that for 12 rounds???
Pull your inbread head out of your sister's asscrack! Toney didn't hurt Ruiz, Guinn, Booker, or Rahman? Did you even watch the fights? Toney has never been down as a HW even against Peter. Can you say the same thing about the Homosister? Nahh, go sell your southern snake-oil somewhere else. There may be people on this board stupid enough to buy your hatorade and racist crap, but thank G-d for those who can discern and see what a fool you are. ::**
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
I think all these personal attacks are rather childish . This is the first time I have seen this kind of behavior on Saddo's board. . sit back and do an honest appraisal of the situation and put the brakes on . No need to get all crazy about theoretical situations. Peace ! ;)
Re: Where does Toney go from here?
This is a little much Shadow, I would expect more from you ;) .....Allot of ethnic slurs and geographic condescending remarks, It was a little humorous for a second but your last couple posts are way over the top.... :-\
I think we should all move on now...were not exactly putting on a stellar performance for the guests checking out the board, the fact that we don't carry on like this with all the smacktalk, makes this the best damn forum in the world lets not lose sight of who we all are and what separates us from the rest....
I don't mind a good heated debate about Boxing and individual analysis but taking personal shots at someone is a bit juvenile.... Tempers will flare but shouldn't get out of control.......... ;)
