Printable View
CC KS,well made points all throughout the thread..Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
Oumafan,you know you're 1 of my fave posters but I don't see how,overall,Hatton's resume is better than Cotto;s? I guess if you prefer 1 big name then fair enough but I think Cotto has fought the higher level of competition
(Knew this would be a good thread!)
Killersheep you've confused yourself now ;D
My comment was directed at Lyle, have a cool click for picking up the baton in his absense ;)
For all i appreciate where ya coming from in naming common fighters, to be fair thats all bull.Quote:
Originally Posted by killersheep
You can look at alot of fighter's over the years, look back on resume's and see common denomitors that make the argument a mockery.
Ex; ODLH loses to Mosely twice. Mosely loses to Forrest twice. Forrest gets his ass handed to him by Mayorga. Then Oscar whoops Mayorga's ass. See where im coming from ;)
As i mentioned earlier in the thread, Cotto beats Ricky at Welter IMO. Cotto is now fighting at his natural weight, and to be fair he looks big at the weight. Ricky's optimum weight is LWW, end of.
Regardless of what anyone else thinks here the best name on Cottos resume is Paulie Malignaggi who didnt even fight Malignaggis fight because he felt the rinf was too small. Not Cottos fault but it does take abit away from his victory especially since Malignaggi is a featherfisted technitian, not a predatory brawler as he was against Cotto and still troubled him deeply.
Hatton beats Cotto and looks good doing it. Hatton has the style to beat Cotto.
If nothing else, I can't very well let the argument die right? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
CC back bro.
Cotto's best wins to me are Quintana, Corley, Torres, Maussa, Malignaggi and N'dou. I don't put much into his Branco or Bailey wins. Pinto could have been a good win, hard to tell though. He hasn't really fought anybody else, and after that fight he lost a technical decision to a 43 year old Vince Phillips, lost when it went to the cards after five. So that's not much. Abdullaev was a solid win.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
Hatton's best wins are Tsyzu, Collazo (I had it a draw but he got the win), Maussa, and Tackie. Vince Phillips, right after he had done reasonably well against a Sharmba Mitchell that was looking good at the time, and Eamon Magee are solid wins. Cotto's got a couple more solid to good wins than Hatton, but to me Collazo is maybe a bit better than anybody Cotto's ever fought, and Tsyzu is clearly better than anyone he's fought. So those two make up for Cotto having a few more solid to good wins.
Like I said, I think Cotto's closing the gap. The Branco fight was a dissapointing choice, but the Malignaggi one was pretty good, and Quintana as a first fight at 147 was a very good choice.
It's always the same, I think every1 is guilty of remembering a fighter by their last performance including myself. I'd like to point out that South American guy Torres who had Cotto on queer street to all those reading this thead and about to post. The fight would have been stopped in any other situation.
And no I don't buy into the weight drained bollocks to be honest.
I think he beats Hatton at 147 but i'd like to point out Hatton imo has never looked that bad ever, not even against Collazo.
Oumafan,nice analysis, but I have 2 questions,how good is Collazo really and second,how good was the win over Tszyu>? I just think Cotto's looks better to me,younger fighters,usually unbeaten usually know it's their shot at the limelight,hungrier etc.
Back to Collazo,I've seen a few fights and I don't how to rate him? He had the war with Rivera which was VERY CLOSE(you MUST see that fight),he got KTFO by Cssiani,was fighting a guy 1-1 a year ago and now took Hatton the wire...I want to see him against a Cintron(which he will get the chance to do if he beats Mathysse,or a Williams)because IF Hatton had an off night(I don't see what he would have done differently on a "good" night),does that show how good Hatton is on an off night or that Collazo was not that good in the first place? He looks slick,but certainly hittable,ok power(more pitter patter shots)good D but I just think Quintana looked just as good if not better?
As for Tszyu,how much credit do you give to Hatton? I give him alot of credit for the fact he beat a legend but what about all the other factors?
I think that I don't put too much into the Cassiani knockout. Mainly because I have seen the Rivera fight and the Hatton fight. And Cassiani is far less of a fighter than either one of those guys and you could make a good case Collazo beat both of them. So to me seems like more of a blip than a big question mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Gamo
You can question a guy like Quintana too. Sure he beat Julio but Cosme Rivera apparently came pretty close, I didn't see it but everything I've heard is that it was a close fight. So if you wanted to you could discredit Quintana by using that, I don't cause I think Carlos is a pretty good fighter. I just think Collazo's a slicker fighter and definitely more proven cause outside of Julio, Carlos hasn't really fought anybody.
Its hard to really say who's got a better resume cause we dont' really know how good Pinto is. And how good Malignaggi is, and how good Torres is, cause they haven't really fought anybody but Cotto. Torres did allright versus Arnaoutis although I thought he fairly clearly lost.
As for Hatton and Tsyzu. Tsyzu was getting old but he was looking pretty good before that. Good enough that nearly everybody thought he'd win. The ref did help Hatton, it was a rough fight but Hatton didn't win just cause of the ref, you put Maussa in there against Tsyzu with a ref that favors Maussa completely and Maussa's still getting knocked out. Main thing is Tsyzu needs room to punch and Hatton didn't give him any. Partially cause of some helpful reffing but he also had the footspeed to close distance before KT could unload with something. Cotto doesn't need distance to punch, he's got that short left hook which is a reason why I think he'd probably beat Hatton.
whaoooahh there...we aint finished with Miguel yet.
Just who has he beat?
No one...absolutely no one.
Now, you must understand I'm not hating on young Miguel but I have the same objectivity towards him as you might have towards Hatton.
So, like I said, I'll conceed the point and let it drop if anyone can show me which fighters Miguel has fought that constitute the acclaim he's receiving.
whaoooahh there...we aint finished with Miguel yet.Quote:
As for Tszyu,how much credit do you give to Hatton? I give him alot of credit for the fact he beat a legend but what about all the other factors?
Just who has he beat?
No one...absolutely no one.
Now, you must understand I'm not hating on young Miguel but I have the same objectivity towards him as you might have towards Hatton.
So, like I said, I'll conceed the point and let it drop if anyone can show me which fighters Miguel has fought that constitute the acclaim he's receiving.
The second Quintana said no mas, this was the fight I wanted to see next more than anything other than PBF v Hatton.
I said straight away that Cotto is now a P4P top 5er with that last performance, and he looked like a career long welterweight. The way he did a number on Quintana was miles more impressive than Hatton v Collazo. It looks like Cotto's chin is less of an issue, and also his stamina, even though he didn't get deep into the fight, his work-rate was impressive for the first five, and he's a smart 12 round fighter so there's no way he'd gas himself on purpose. These all make me think that the fight is now a genuine coin-toss. No orthodox fighter has put Hatton on the canvas, or even had him wobbled, Tszyu and Phillips have hit him ward with straights that he said made the lights bright, but he can take a huge punch when he sees it coming, Collazo and Magee blindsided him with that bloody southpaw right hook, and the rocked him up real bad. I'm still unsure if Cotto could land cleanly on Hatton, especially when pressurized like crazy by Hatton. Late 2007 would be a good time for this fight IMO, with Hatton getting a full 12/14 weeks to fully develop as a welter, maybe even a tune-up at welter against a lesser fighter on an undercard after Castillo in May/June at 140. Exciting times indeed!
CC for the breakdown and I had Rivera winning by 1 first time and a draw the second time so maybe that;s why we differ on Collazo although I do think he is a good fighter,I'm quite sure how good he is. And as for Tszyu,fair enough and I'd agree,Hatton would beat Tszyu regardless of where the fight took place simply because of the styles but I mean Tszyu's inactivity etc was surely a factor?Quote:
Originally Posted by OumaFan
And yeah,you can say the same about Quintana but I mean he TOTALLY shooled the youngster! and Cassiani didn't merely outpoint Collazo,he KTFO the guy!
As for Cotto's resume,well I think he beat the guys there were to beat at 140 because outside of those youngsters and threats,who else was there that a fight could realistically be made with? Remember,Cotto has now beaten 5/6 former or current world champs and the dude is what 26? I just find that more impressive than what Hatton has done.
That's the thing,I was perfectly content to give Hatton his props etc etc but it gets annoying when the nut huggers appear. Like I and a few other people have pointed out AND USED examples,Cotto has beaten some good fighters and to so to say he has beaten no one is just plain out ignorance...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steelie
Yeah but add another dimension,MIGUEL can turn southpaw ;D :D ;) 8)Quote:
Originally Posted by yoitsdan
I'd have to agree that it's a toss up at 147.
Cotto looked more comfortable at the weight, but this is comparing both fighter's performances after only 1 fight each at WW.
That's not really a definitive indicator of what the outcome would be.
Sure, Hatton decided to fight next back at 140, but that still doesn't say how the fight would turn out at 147 between these two.
The only thing I would feel very confident about predicting is that, at 140, 147, or even a catch weight, these two getting in a ring would make for one hell of a night of boxing. My prediction would be that someone gets KTFO.
To me Cotto looks a hell of a lot more comfortable at 147 then he ever did at 140. He was better suited for 147 a lot sooner than what I expected him to be. He had a good work rate and looked fresh after the 5 rounds. The thing that impressed me the most was the way Cotto took care of Quintana. He was the better fighter and showed it by getting the TKO early. Which is what a fighter is suppose to do when they are up against a lesser opponent. I was surprised by the fight, thought Quintana would take Cotto the distance.
If Hatton/Cotto happened at 147 then Cotto gets a late (T)KO at 140 Hatton gets a late (T)KO.